[poloman]

Originally Posted by greyhound82

A couple of my distant nephews and their friends went to Canada and the European Union after the 12th for name-sake diploma courses. After the same, some of them are working in care homes, and hotels and some are training to become truck drivers.
They are not lower middle class by any account, they have rubber estates, commercial properties, private buses and even elephants( am not joking). Compared to them am earning peanuts in corporate but they all are leaving India.
Maybe a Gen-Z phenomenon or the effect of Instagram shorts, there is a large migration of youth happening in Kerala.

Canada is running a Ponzi scheme with gullible Indians. Few posts back there were some honest reflections of this. The plus 2 guys who go there are basically going to provide cheap hard labor where as well settled money bags who migrate sustain their sinking economy from a terrible crash.

India stopped visa services in Canada due to recent incidents. There was no tit for tat for only this..!
This show how much Canada economy is dependent on Indians who make up 40% of migrants.

[fuzzydealhunter]

Originally Posted by poloman

Canada is running a Ponzi scheme with gullible Indians. Few posts back there were some honest reflections of this. The plus 2 guys who go there are basically going to provide cheap hard labor where as well settled money bags who migrate sustain their sinking economy from a terrible crash.

India stopped visa services in Canada due to recent incidents. There was no tit for tat for only this..!
This show how much Canada economy is dependent on Indians who make up 40% of migrants.

Lets not try to over simplify complex geo politics. Few posts back there was some honest reflection of the experience in Canada and at the same time enough people shared what their experience has been like in a good way.

I would be the first one to say things are not the easiest here in Canada for new graduates looking for work...you know where else its not easy for a fresh graduate to find work? India. Same applies to someone moving countries. Is finding a new job easy for someone once they moved to India from lets say Iran or South Africa? They are an unproven commodity and it will take time for them to find something that works for them. This is the part people dont understand. You are starting from scratch. It will never be easy.

I think people had jumped to conclusions as to what a life outside would be like without doing their own research. If you try to tell the honest reality to people, they think you are being negative and go talk to someone else who has a more positive view.

People need to take ownership of their poor decision making. No one is forcing anyone on a plane, everyone is making those choices on their own accord. Do people get scammed by unscrupulous individuals looking to take advantage of this? Absolutely! Can government do more to prevent this? Sure! Can people not google up information in this day and age? Yes they can. If someone is looking at a new institution to go study at, in this day and age I can assure your some vlogger has already gone and done an episode walkthrough of the entire campus!

Its a fine balance that needs to be met between too much govt oversight and people using their common sense.

Do your research people! Ask questions!

For me Canada has worked out great, this does not need to be true for someone else. Lets not try and paint an entire country with the brush as a ponzi scheme.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by humyum

It would be amazing if I could get a job before I land there so I could use the 30% ruling too and save on taxes.

You might want to look into this some more. It depends on the job you hold whether you are eligible or not and to what extend. Your employer needs to arrange the actual taxation for you.

If you are eligible, there is a reduction of 30% of your taxable income for a certain period. I believe this period is being shortened in the next year or so.

Jeroen

[poloman]

Originally Posted by fuzzydealhunter

I would be the first one to say things are not the easiest here in Canada for new graduates looking for work...you know where else its not easy for a fresh graduate to find work? India..

I don't want to reopen the entire discussion on Canada again.
Just to add I have not seen lines outside a McDonald's or supermarket in India in recent times for a clerical job or behind the counter job.
Most of these guys are going for societal reasons how much ever we try to deny this.

A plus 2 average student landing in Canada just want to make money by working in blue collar job. It is clear to everyone including Canadian government. But do they have enough jobs for such people? The Government has some responsibility when they let in migrants when there aren't enough jobs to sustain the existing population. Then immigration itself become a business newer ones feeding the older ones.

[fuzzydealhunter]

Originally Posted by poloman

I don't want to reopen the entire discussion on Canada again.
Just to add I have not seen lines outside a McDonald's or supermarket in India in recent times for a clerical job or behind the counter job.
Most of these guys are going for societal reasons how much ever we try to deny this.

A plus 2 average student landing in Canada just want to make money by working in blue collar job. It is clear to everyone including Canadian government. But do they have enough jobs for such people? The Government has some responsibility when they let in migrants when there aren't enough jobs to sustain the existing population. Then immigration itself become a business newer ones feeding the older ones.

Interesting that you are willing to put the blame on the Canadian government with regards to them needing to do the right thing by immigrants who are not even their citizens but willing to give Indian govt a pass on the awful job they have done creating opportunities for their citizens who they actually have a responsibility for?

I know of many-a-kids who have moved out of Kerala just due to the sheer lack of opportunities in Kerala. I am speaking of Kerala because I have an understanding of whats going on there and thus not speaking of other states.

I disagree its not just societal reasons. Its economic reasons that people are migrating for. Its the pursuit of a better life and again you are over simplifying it. Go into any tier 3 or lower college and check what the job prospects there are like. Talk to the fresh graduates and ask them what their growth aspects are like. The average salary in India ranges between INR14,000-INR20,000. Are we still surprised people are willing to jump though hoops to just get the minimum wage jobs in Canada or any other country for that matter?

If it was that bad I promise you the foreign affairs ministry would be putting out an advisory and setting up processes so Indian citizens dont get into taken advantage of, as is their responsibility.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by humyum

Can anyone help me with information on some agencies I can get in touch with for immigration to Netherlands?

My fiance and soon to be wife works there and I will be applying for a partner visa after we get married in December. It would be amazing if I could get a job before I land there so I could use the 30% ruling too and save on taxes.

I have 8 years of Product Management experience with lot of innovation and success stories on this journey.

The idea is to get a job there and build a corpus for mom's cancer treatment.

Have you checked out the ExpatForum? If you haven't, I would recommend doing that. Link: https://www.expatforum.com/tags/netherlands/

Do reach out to your contacts via LinkedIn. 8/10 may not reply but don't let that discourage you.

Overseas education/work/visa Agencies are notorious for overselling and being opaque. Please do proper research before choosing one.

You seem to have a lot on your plate (wedding, job search, new country, saving for medical treatment etc.) and it can be overwhelming. So good luck and all the best!

Originally Posted by fuzzydealhunter

Interesting that you are willing to put the blame on the Canadian government with regards to them needing to do the right thing by immigrants who are not even their citizens but willing to give Indian govt a pass on the awful job they have done creating opportunities for their citizens who they actually have a responsibility for?

I agree that the Indian Government has a duty of care and is answerable to its citizens for the (lack of) job opportunities. Similarly, when countries like Australia and Canada issue Visas based on skills, I believe these countries are also answerable to the people who paid for these visas. They don't need to be citizens to ask questions. I'm not saying they should guarantee jobs, which would be absurd and not possible. I do wonder if the shortage/gap in skilled resources are reasonably estimated. In Australia's case for example, yes, we need people but there's a housing shortage. Where will these people live? The University, Government or the Visa Agency may not highlight this to the prospective candidates.

All said and done, the bottom line is that people must choose what works for them.

P.S: Ignore the clickbait truck driver posts. It is a cliche that's done to death. If someone chooses to drive trucks in Canada than be a landlord in India, that's their choice and I don't see anything demeaning in that. If some people want to use that as a (bad) example to vindicate their personal choices then, so be it.

[hdus001]

Originally Posted by kiku007

In Australia's case for example, yes, we need people but there's a housing shortage. Where will these people live? The University, Government or the Visa Agency may not highlight this to the prospective candidates.

This is very true. However whose responsibility do you feel this should be? I would think with all the internet resources available it'd be quite easy for a candidate to understand job availabilities, salaries, rental availabilities, living costs, house prices etc, especially in an economy that is mostly all above the line. If they aren't doing this research before making life-changing decisions, there's no point blaming anyone else.

Over the past year or so, I've had a few relatives/friends contact me for information regarding universities etc for their kids. Talking to them it's quite clear to me they've already been sold an overly rosy picture and aren't open to hearing anything negative or cautionary. I stick to just answering their specific questions rather than offering my opinions as they may not like them.

I've wondered what is it that pushes so many barely-out-of-school students to consider 2nd rate universities in Australia, that too for quite generic courses like BBA, MBA, BA etc. They don't seem to realise as freshers it'll be harder to find decent jobs in Australia with those generic degrees than it'd be in India if they did the same courses, as at least they aren't disadvantaged by cultural/language differences and would be competing against other similar candidates as opposed to against local Australian candidates who have been working part-time since age 14 and by then would've built up valuable skills like interpersonal, negotiation, time management, decision-making, interview skills etc.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

Try contacting Kairali TV, a Malayalam TV channel. They used to run a program where they helped find and return migrants stuck in the middle east.

I don't think media will help out unless the actual victims came forward. We manage an YouTube/Insta channel, and a couple of months back, a few people from Kerala had contacted us regarding a job offer they had got from a construction company in Finland. The company had mentioned in their "offer letter" that about 220 euros need to be paid to some agency (can't remember the details now). Basic checks told us that there is no such company operating in Finland. Their website had pictures of projects and even top employees copied from another genuine company's website. We informed those who contacted us and also put out a video regarding this. Since we have limited reach as a channel, we contacted a friend of my wife who works in one of the main news channels in Kerala. He told us that unless people who got such fake offers and lost money came forward, he could not do a story naming any specific company or website. All he could do was to put out a general warning to ensure if jobs offered abroad were genuine.

Originally Posted by Indian2003

I have been calling Namaste a scammer in Youtube but I see that no one takes notice.

About 3 weeks after we started the channel, we carried an interview with an immigrant who has been working in Finland as a nurse for a long time. The interview was mainly about his experiences, and we briefly touched the topic of recruitment of nurses to Finland as it was in the news at that time. He mentioned that knowledge of local language is essential, and recruiting agencies provide some basic language training. His own friend who saw this video was also negotiating at that time with an agency to migrate to Finland as a nurse. This agency, however, wasn't providing any language training. The friend showed the video to the agency. They responded that ours is a scam channel trying to promote a rival agency. They also added that they had complained about us six months back, and had got our channel shut down. But now we had spawned under a different name What they said might have even sounded true to some aspirants, as our channel was very new and had only 4-5 videos. So, for all you know, people may have contacted Namaste about what you said, but he may be calling you the scammer!!

I guess people want to block out bad news or don't want to hear anything that interferes with their dream of emigrating. So, even if they know someone has got scammed, many still go ahead thinking that they will be more vigilant or it can't happen to me or it was just bad luck for the guy who didn't succeed etc.

[Indian2003]

Originally Posted by sunilch

Not to demean someone's' sufferings but this sounds like a cry baby case, nothing more. For them being Abroad is simply the passport to a better life. Their societal value shall increase when they are abroad, you see. Hence this seems like an excuse to shift to Norway for the supposedly 'better life' which they have at home anyway. Norway is after all a better brand than Malta.

I bet many would have enough money to go back home but are not doing so because they don't want to.

I think you hit the nail. I had another chat with 2 of them after I posted here.
The guy in Malta had seen an ad and contacted the employer and flew in before he got the job. Many of the Indians there used «agents». He says he wants to go back but at the same time asks for help to find a job in Norway.
I had asked around but Norway is not on the EU, so other rules apply. Only EU citizens are allowed to freely migrate within the EU. For EEA with certain conditions. EU residents cannot legally.

The other one has already left for India and wants to come back to Europe. This time to Norway. He offers manual labour.

I think back to 1990. A Pakistani and Indian student. Both of them had a state scholarship to do a Masters programme in Hydropower Development. All student loans would be cancelled on condition they used their qualifications in their home countries.

These 2 did not want to return and one worked as a dish washer at a student pub while the Indian guy was a pizza baker. They refused to return and claimed asylum. They had support from the leftist students claiming that Norway had more use for them in Norway. There were several interviews in the local papers.

A few years later both were arrested and expelled. They had been slipping drugs into drinks at the same students pub and raping the young women.

Even then, students turned up at the airport protesting their deportation.

[V.Narayan]

India sends highest number of legal emigrants to OECD countries

https://www.business-standard.com/in...2400296_1.html

In 2022 legal emigration to OECD countries stood at 6.1 million. Of these ~407,000 came from India followed by China at ~283,000. So ~7.5% of global legal emigration movement is of Indians shifting out. One can view this as the glass half full or half empty but it still remains a fact to come to terms with.

On one hand it reflects our large youth population, our relatively good education {may not be the best but it has value}, our work ethic and that most first generation Indians do not dabble in political and cultural wars in the new country they adopt. One the other hand it represents a drain of talent from our country and the fact that young people are voting with their feet no matter what the politicians may claim.

In the long run of next 40 years this large diaspora could become an asset for a growing and more assertive India on the world stage. We don't quite know yet how to harness the immense talent, money and loyalty (to India) that our vast diaspora has. The inward remittances of $111 billion i.e. 3.3% of our GDP, that the diaspora sends is the most visible part of this relationship. But there is the human bridge that may one day result in a reverse flow of brain power, knowledge, habits and attitudes. Emigration out of India started as a trickle in the 1960s when UK then USA opened their doors - Canada and Australia had done so a little earlier with caveats. Our first wave of outward bound emigrants were the Anglo-Indians. I wonder what linkages remain with the second generation or third generation - slender I assume.

[Haze]

Originally Posted by car_guy1998

Did anyone return to India after completing their Masters in the USA or any other country? Asking because I have seen a few people returning to India as soon as they complete their Masters and few people stayed back after Masters with the intention of working in abroad.

A cousin of mine came back after her MBA from London School of Economics. Got a job in a top tier bank's HQ.

A batchmate of mine went Berkeley for her LLM. Came back, and cleared the Judicial examination.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by hdus001

This is very true. However whose responsibility do you feel this should be? I would think with all the internet resources available it'd be quite easy for a candidate to understand job availabilities, salaries, rental availabilities, living costs, house prices etc, especially in an economy that is mostly all above the line. If they aren't doing this research before making life-changing decisions, there's no point blaming anyone else.

Sure, of course the individual is responsible for their choices. I'm not absolving them of that responsibility.

There are policy level decisions that the individual (non-citizen) has no control over and that's an area the Government can and should do something. Take the below for example.

"The Albanese government is due to respond to the first major review of Australia’s migration system in decades before the end of the year.
The size of Australia’s migration program was explicitly excluded from the review, led by former public service chief Martin Parkinson. It was largely focused on improving the efficiency of the visa system amid a global race for talent."

Link: https://www.afr.com/politics/federal...0231024-p5eehp

Originally Posted by hdus001

I've wondered what is it that pushes so many barely-out-of-school students to consider 2nd rate universities in Australia, that too for quite generic courses like BBA, MBA, BA etc.

Forget about University courses. A good percentage of international students are moving to VET courses after entering the country. Here's some insights from the link shared above.

• He said an increasing number of international students were applying as higher education students to maximise their chances of entry to Australia, but then switching to a private college six months after arrival to save money.
• More than 90 per cent of offshore VET applications over the past six months were rejected, whereas onshore applications to switch to a VET course had a refusal rate of less than 7 per cent.
• “It’s much easier to get a visa offshore if you’re doing a higher ed course than if you’re doing a VET course, but it’s of course much cheaper to do a VET course than a higher ed course,” Mr Rizvi said.
• About 14,200 international students switched from a higher education course to a VET course last financial year, up from 6246 in 2021-22. Another 14,781 switched from an English language course to a VET course.
• Education Minister Jason Clare announced this month that colleges targeting international students will be banned from paying commissions to agents who facilitate poaching from universities and other colleges

Originally Posted by hdus001

They don't seem to realise as freshers it'll be harder to find decent jobs in Australia with those generic degrees than it'd be in India if they did the same courses, as at least they aren't disadvantaged by cultural/language differences and would be competing against other similar candidates as opposed to against local Australian candidates who have been working part-time since age 14 and by then would've built up valuable skills like interpersonal, negotiation, time management, decision-making, interview skills etc.

True, but they have to start somewhere I suppose. Better start sooner than later.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by car_guy1998

Did anyone return to India after completing their Masters in the USA or any other country?

I returned after my Masters in US in the 2000s. There are quite a few who I know, have settled in India.

Where you want to settle is entirely upto you and shouldn't be looking for 'company'

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

India sends highest number of legal emigrants to OECD countries

https://www.business-standard.com/in...2400296_1.html

In 2022 legal emigration to OECD countries stood at 6.1 million. Of these ~407,000 came from India followed by China at ~283,000. So ~7.5% of global legal emigration movement is of Indians shifting out.

India has about 18% of the world's population, so the figure of 7.5% needs to improve! Also wonder what the figures are for non-legal emigration.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

One can view this as the glass half full or half empty but it still remains a fact to come to terms with. On one hand it reflects our large youth population, our relatively good education {may not be the best but it has value}, our work ethic and that most first generation Indians do not dabble in political and cultural wars in the new country they adopt. One the other hand it represents a drain of talent from our country and the fact that young people are voting with their feet no matter what the politicians may claim.

I'd say the positives outweigh the negatives! With only 2.4% of the world's land, India has to support about 18% of its population. Emigrations from India reduce the pressure on land & resources and help make the life of those staying back better. If they take place on a large enough scale, emigrations can help in increasing Indian wages/salaries which are much lower than global standards due to overpopulation and oversupply of labour. Notwithstanding the brain drain, to the extent it addresses overpopulation and the problems caused by it, emigration to foreign lands is always welcome! To address brain-drain, we would need to improve the quality of education as well as the work culture. Our educational system needs to produce enough quality graduates so that we still have enough left for the country after losing the ones who migrated abroad!

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

In the long run of next 40 years this large diaspora could become an asset for a growing and more assertive India on the world stage. We don't quite know yet how to harness the immense talent, money and loyalty (to India) that our vast diaspora has. The inward remittances of $111 billion i.e. 3.3% of our GDP, that the diaspora sends is the most visible part of this relationship.

Our diaspora is already a huge asset; the inward remittances now exceed the FDI in India!

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

But there is the human bridge that may one day result in a reverse flow of brain power, knowledge, habits and attitudes. Emigration out of India started as a trickle in the 1960s when UK then USA opened their doors - Canada and Australia had done so a little earlier with caveats. Our first wave of outward bound emigrants were the Anglo-Indians. I wonder what linkages remain with the second generation or third generation - slender I assume.

Not an expert on the subject but Australia discarded its White Australia policy only in 1966. Before that year, they permitted only white migrants to settle down in Australia.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by directinjection

I'd say the positives outweigh the negatives! With only 2.4% of the world's land, India has to support about 18% of its population. Emigrations from India reduce the pressure on land & resources and help make the life of those staying back better.


Our diaspora is already a huge asset; the inward remittances now exceed the FDI in India!


.

Immigration is good if that is balanced. New wave migrants are completely moving out selling their lands and assets in India. They are using this money to buy houses in places like Canada. This is one reason cited for real estate boom in Canada. No scope of inward remittances either once entire families move out.
Some communities will be wiped out in decades if this continue. The Christian population in middle and south Kerala are examples. There are hardly any people left in some belts. Ghost towns are being popped up. Church is now advising moderation. This has to be tackled at community level.