[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

..unfriendly people.

Never been to or lived in Canada but the stereotype about Canadians in the media is generally the exact opposite!

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Never been to or lived in Canada but the stereotype about Canadians in the media is generally the exact opposite!

As I qualified this is one young 21-year old's perception.

As for stereotypes I believe most are myths. Paris is portrayed as a city of romance blah blah. After over 20 or 25 visits on business and once on vacation I could not have a worse opinion of any city than I do of Paris in terms of rudeness, unfriendliness, hidebound bureaucracy and cheating businessmen. Anyways we are now way off topic.

[Samurai]

An interesting article by a Korean-American who moved to Germany:

This as-told-to essay is based on a conversation with Stephanie Vollmer, a 34-year-old freelance marketer from Sacramento, California, about her experience moving to Germany. The following has been edited for length and clarity.

https://www.businessinsider.in/theli.../100964151.cms

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

I can't believe how we are literally discussing how racism can get you better salaries in the Gulf can't even imagine this in the West or even India! This is a terrible system, guys!

I agree, but what makes you think it doesn't happen in India?

Originally Posted by hdus001

From what I learned,
1. Ethnicity (Emiratis >> Westerners >> Non-emirati arabs > Indians/Chinese > Filipinas/Pakistani)
2. Passport (Western > Non-western)

BTW this discrimination is not just about jobs, apparently, this happens in housing too, there are even areas that only locals can buy property in (google freehold vs non-freehold). Similarly, you wouldn't see many instances of the local emiratis especially women marrying/dating and welcoming you into their family.

Housing outside free zones can only be purchased by GCC nationals - not just locals. Sobha Developers (well known across India and the GCC) owns massive tracts of land and huge developments because the chairman and owner is a Malayali who has Omani nationality. BTW, Filipina = woman.

Originally Posted by vibbs

It would be good to know on which are the companies, industries and levels where such discrimination occurs.

For instance I am hiring for my team globally and Dubai is a potential location. But this discrimination is not even in my horizon. Are these companies still in the stone age?

You will find this mainly in govt companies and older local companies. You will not find it at an EY, or a KKR or Amazon. Of course, there are always racist managers who hire as per their whim, not for competence.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

Also the question of caste, the humble me is from a backward caste. I agree that I may have been more fortunate than some of my compatriots. My parents (in their 70s/80s now) got into good educational courses because of reservations. Thankfully i didn't need them. I don't think we are as helpless as we used to be. There has been a sea change in the last 15 years and many backward castes are mainstream now.

I actually opened this thread just to respond to this. I salute your parents' journey, and also their hard work to bring you to a position where you didn't need the same facilities. Also, I appreciate your honesty in rejecting the reservation based on need. Really, I wish more people were like you, and we have many more such stories of success for those who society might have left behind.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Posting rule no 13 here if you have not read it before.

I have read it before. There appears to be absolutely no commonality with anything I've posted. Perhaps I need to brush up on my reading skills.

Originally Posted by Samurai

An interesting article by a Korean-American who moved to Germany:
https://www.businessinsider.in/theli.../100964151.cms

Korean-Caucasian woman moves from one of the most racist countries in the world - South Korea, where whiter is right-er, and Koreans are better than other Asians - where she was obviously advantaged, to Germany, where she can't afford to live in a nice place because she doesn't have a real job. Woman then whines about not being accepted by old Germans and feeling out of place generally. Wishes to go back to California, where the sun never sets. Please note that she got a job 'teaching English' in an East Asian country, which we all know is a job that is more melanin-related than the NBA All-Star Game. Did I miss something?

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Woman then whines about not being accepted by old Germans and feeling out of place generally.

What an absurd list of complaints. I particularly enjoyed her desire to "be surrounded by people like me — English-speaking working professionals from diverse backgrounds" i.e. be diverse as long as you speak her language and have a very similar outlook. She'll only be happy in Korea or America. Everywhere else will have some issue that'll get the whinge machine going.

If anyone reading is considering emigrating, this is exactly how you set yourself up for failure with your move.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I agree, but what makes you think it doesn't happen in India?

Does it? I've first-hand experience in the GCC but can't say this about India (have to depend on my friends for feedback since I barely lived there). I know things like caste & religion affect job prospects in India but not sure if it affects the salary (specifically).

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I agree, but what makes you think it doesn't happen in India?

Known to happen in US too, although I have heard of this anecdotally only. There is no reason to believe it does not happen everywhere. Like attracts like after all and that is in our nature. It takes conscious effort to overcome that.

[landmaster18]

I am reading some very interesting perspectives here. I will turn 40 in about 3 months time and was a hardcore nationalist before I left for foreign shores. Was deeply conflicted of my services being used for a foreign land, brain drain and not possibly spending enough time with my parents.

Eventually I came back but I regret every single minute of me coming back to India! I was much younger and possibly immature to make that decision. I absolutely love our motherland but life had been very hard for me as an employee here - you get to spend a third of your time at the workplace so one cannot ignore the sad workplace politics, backstabbing and conspiracies, comforts and the like.

The reason I say this I had to take significant paycut in accepting roles in India. And despite how better you do in my sector, the pay rise is only so much. My satisfaction comes from the fact that my work is read and implemented by world leading policy agencies like the IEA, WMO and World Bank. I get to influence policy at the global level and get to spend time with family too. But after a point, reality kinda hits you. My friends and peers who'd stayed back and have done even reasonably well with their careers have earned much money to flip houses and mansions costing a few million dollars + take frequent foreign vacations sometimes 2x a year and buy cars that attract atleast 50% + in overall taxes here in India! These are also the same people who now have foreign citizenships and OCI cards and travel here so many times that it's become ridiculous.

I do therefore regret it a lot. It's impacted life in more profound ways and no matter however much one tries to rationalize it in spiritual or non-material terms, there is a sense of unhappiness to it in some way. Emigrating to a foreign land is not a bad idea especially if you are a middle class Indian and who'd only depend on a job as your sole source of income. It is another story if you are an entrepreneur or trying to get into something of that sort - a business that will also bring you copious amounts of foreign exchange - which is what I aim to do!

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

I do therefore regret it a lot. It's impacted life in more profound ways and no matter however much one tries to rationalize it in spiritual or non-material terms, there is a sense of unhappiness to it in some way. Emigrating to a foreign land is not a bad idea especially if you are a middle class Indian and who'd only depend on a job as your sole source of income. It is another story if you are an entrepreneur or trying to get into something of that sort - a business that will also bring you copious amounts of foreign exchange - which is what I aim to do!

Thanks for saying it loud. Very much appreciated as we don’t hear these perspectives much often. As Androdev pointed out somewhere on this thread we read a lot of positive stories but very less introspective (mainly regret) ones.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

I am reading some very interesting perspectives here. I will turn 40 in about 3 months time and was a hardcore nationalist before I left for foreign shores. Eventually I came back but I regret every single minute of me coming back to India!

On the other hand, you're only 39. I'm sure there's plenty of people thinking about emigrating at your age for the first time. I hope you can leverage your experience to get you to the place you want to be!

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

Emigrating to a foreign land is not a bad idea especially if you are a middle class Indian and who'd only depend on a job as your sole source of income. It is another story if you are an entrepreneur or trying to get into something of that sort - a business that will also bring you copious amounts of foreign exchange - which is what I aim to do!

Thanks for sharing your unfiltered experience. I wish you the very best and I hope you achieve more than what you aimed for.

Some countries do make it challenging to migrate when we are in the 40s but on the positive side, your work experience and field (if in demand or niche) could actually be your strength to migrate overseas. Do look out on that front as well if you are keen.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

Emigrating to a foreign land is not a bad idea especially if you are a middle class Indian and who'd only depend on a job as your sole source of income.

This is a fair assessment and something people on both sides of the debate agree with.

It is another story if you are an entrepreneur or trying to get into something of that sort - a business that will also bring you copious amounts of foreign exchange - which is what I aim to do!

Sorry, I don't mean to offend you but this is also a much harder to achieve in India. Be it career or entrepreneurship, it's a lot harder to succeed here in India. At least when you are doing a job, you will have very little exposure to many things wrong with this country. As an entrepreneur, you will really see the country's darkside in its full glory.

Perhaps your decision to return to India was taken in haste and I sense a similar haste in coming to the conclusion that entrepreneurship will be the ticket to a better life. On paper it is, but you need to consider the odds of making it happen, especially if you have no support system and you are the sole bread earner, etc. If you like to bet based on probability, it would be easier to migrate vs becoming a successful entrepreneur (starting from scratch).

Has it come as a surprise to you that your peers who did not return are having the life that you describe? Most people who return knowingly give up their Range Rover to drive a Tata Nexon here. The difference in work-life balance is also very well known. I don't mean to ask this to offend you but I am really curious to know about your thought process when you made the decision to return.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by androdev

Sorry, I don't mean to offend you but this is also a much harder to achieve in India. Be it career or entrepreneurship, it's a lot harder to succeed here in India. At least when you are doing a job, you will have very little exposure to many things wrong with this country. As an entrepreneur, you will really see the country's darkside in its full glory.

That was my first thought too, but I didn't want to be the first one to contradict a very popular post.

As someone who returned from USA 20 years ago and been an entrepreneur since then, I can confidently say I would have enjoyed much higher income if I had just taken a job. In fact, people with my skill set and half my experience generally make more than me. My cars are 16 and 12 years old. Entrepreneurship is a constant hustle, less than 1% really see any big success. I still do it because I prefer it to corporate life of endless/useless meetings and certifications. I have a person quote... Don't envy someone's income if you don't envy their everyday grind.

Yes, dealing with government can be really stressful and downright depressing, but it is not an everyday thing.

Originally Posted by androdev

Has it come as a surprise to you that your peers who did not return are having the life that you describe? Most people who return knowingly give up their Range Rover to drive a Tata Nexon here. The difference in work-life balance is also very well known. I don't mean to ask this to offend you but I am really curious to know about your thought process when you made the decision to return.

It all comes down to expectations. As you rightly pointed out, I too moved from Acura 3.2TL to Santro Xing when I moved back to India. One emigrates or stays or returns for personal reasons, it is not some universal reason. My reasons for coming back were as follows, and they still hold good.

Originally Posted by Samurai

I left for other reasons:
1) Parents were getting old, and I wanted to be around for them. Now I travel to Udupi every month to be with my mom for few days. I was around when my dad passed away few years ago.
2) I was making 6 figures salary 20 years ago, with 12 years of experience, even had zero co-pay medical coverage for full family. I was well settled and employer was very very willing to file GC, and it was lot easier then. But I realised I will always be judged on skin color, rather than on who I am. I know it doesn't bother most people emigrating to USA, but it did bother me. I didn't want to put-up with it, nor subject my son to it.

[locusjag]

I fully empathize with Samurai's thoughts on returning to India, having done so myself for the exact same reasons.

In fact, when I was living in the US and my wife was pregnant, I flew her to India to ensure that our daughter will be born an Indian. During my entire time in the US, I was constantly aware of being judged and downright resented for my skin color. Every frown, every facial twitch and nod; heck, every other statement that some random guy on the street would outrightly make to me - it all added up and I came back home gladly to be with my ageing father.

No regrets.

What's more, so many of my father's aged friends have expressed their surprise and admiration at me for having the conviction to come back from the US. All of dad's friends are unhappily living in isolation for 6 months of the year and they fly unwillingly to the US on Tourist visas to be with their kids/grandkids. In all honesty they unanimously tell my dad that they would much rather have everyone here with them right at home.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

I do therefore regret it a lot. It's impacted life in more profound ways and no matter however much one tries to rationalize it in spiritual or non-material terms, there is a sense of unhappiness to it in some way.

I think your decision was not truly aligned to your true inner values. I believe you are a materialist at heart. Hence no amount of spiritual/non-material rationalizing will help you. Nothing wrong with it. You should be just true to yourself. Living in constant state of regret is a very sad way to lead your life. I believe you are still young and should consider relocating back abroad.