[Samurai]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

What I'm worried about is how we will manage with my son's schooling and special education sessions in the US. I dont know how much these will cost in the US and whether these will be covered under insurance (probably not). If the sessions are going to be prohibitively expenses, it will probably wipe out all my savings.

I would really appreciate any inputs related to schooling and special education support for mildly autistic children in the US. I have no idea on this in terms of expense and effectiveness.

This alone makes your plan impractical. I have a 16 year old autistic son, whom I have discussed often in another thread. Living in India alone has made the therapy options affordable. I have been forced to maintain two homes since 13 years, and I constantly move between them. I have a distant relative living in USA, who also has an autistic child of slightly older age. He is not able to afford 1/5th duration therapy my son gets for his son. As a result, his son is hardly manageable, his wife is in constant depression, etc. USA is a not country to live if you have a child with a major medical issue like autism.

If you can go alone, make some money and come back, then it will work out. Whether your wife has the courage and the support system around her to manage an autistic child on her own for a duration, is a question you both have to answer.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

This country justwants tax cows to milk them dry to their last drop, without even giving these poor cows any feed (decent housing.)

I'm sorry to know that Canada didn't meet your expectations. I haven't been to Canada but I understand they do have a lot of similarities with their southern hemisphere doppelganger, Australia. Both countries have a high dependency on the housing industry to prop up wealth and COL is in general higher than the USA. However, Canada and Australia offer a straightforward residency and citizenship pathway. There's always pros and cons. One has to chose what suits them.

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

5. My expectations: all of the above, just at a lesser magnitude. I am from a decently well-to-do family, the only reason I wanted to come to Canada was for the passport.

EDIT: Just thought of a joke I would like to share:

Me to people who have been here 4-5 years: So why did you come to Canada?
People: To move to the US. (or UAE.)

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

99% of the people who immigrate here CANNOT wait to leave after that passport, either to USA or back home.

• I understand that your only reason to migrate to Canada was for their Passport/Citizenship.
• You have estimated that 99% of migrants want to leave for the USA or back home. People whom you interact with have expressed their desire to move to the USA or UAE. I now actually don't know which is the joke. The former or the later.
• The Canadian Government is milking dry the tax cows.

People migrate for different reasons and getting a Canadian passport to eventually migrate to the USA or potentially negotiate higher pay in the UAE with a Canadian passport are totally valid reasons. However, if that's the only reason then, may be they should be even more cognizant of what their short and long term goals are and how they plan to achieve them in an expensive environment. There's no free lunches man.

I also wonder if your experience of Canada and to an extent the reality of Canada would be different if people (as claimed) didn't treat Canada like their springboard to the USA or UAE? I mean, you didn't really want to live and raise a family in Canada did you? I'm sorry if I misunderstood your objective.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

Friends - Looking for some guidance on whether a stint in the US makes sense for me at this point.

+1 to Samurai's points.

I'll just add this to his suggestion - with a $140k salary in NJ, if living alone there, technically you could save a decent amount if you choose to live frugally (which should be possible in NJ). But a long distance setup would be extremely tough on the family relationship(s); and you'll need to put in very specific boundaries (travel period, limited spending etc.) to really reap the benefits of such a trip. I would think really hard before opting for such a plan. Also check taxation if your work location is going to be NY (if so, you might be paying a mix of taxes from both states).

[rajeshekm]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This alone makes your plan impractical. I have a 16 year old autistic son, whom I have discussed often in another thread.

Thank you Samurai for those wise works. Your other thread is a treasure trove of information which I'm going through.

Going alone is an option, but as you pointed out, it would be very stressful for my wife even with whatever support system we can put together. People with autistic kids can understand but it's difficult for other colleagues and relatives to understand. She keeps getting flak from random relatives and friends as to why she quit her job to look after him - why dont you put him in day care, why do you spend so much time for him etc. It's tough.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

+1 to Samurai's points.

Thanks Ninja. The work location and stay both are in NJ. But yeah I really have to think long and hard if it's worth going for such a plan. With the current market condition, looking for another job with a better salary also doesn't appear doable at least for the next 1 year .

[androdev]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

Friends - Looking for some guidance on whether a stint in the US makes sense for me at this point.

Going with family is ruled out, serves no purpose really. There are two aspects to think about if are thinking of going alone.

Do you have support system at home in your absence? Like either your parents or in-laws should be willing to live with your wife and be emotionally and logistically supportive. You can't possibly make your wife's life any more challenging. If you are not absolutely confident of this, you should drop your plans to move.

If the support issue is taken care of, then you should certainly travel and see how it goes. It's a lot easier to put up with a sh*** life for a guy if living alone. You can be very frugal. Budget generously for travel (visit India 2-3 times a year, bring your family once a year so you are together once in a quarter). Sometimes brief periods of separation, a sense of sacrificing for a higher common purpose can make relationships stronger. Indian marriages are very resilient and going by what you have written you guys should be able to handle this. A little financial upside can brighten the outlook.

I also feel your wife should find some WFH opportunity. More than financial reasons, work will serve as a positive distraction and minimises the sense of despair. Many companies (esp in IT) will be understanding enough to offer a WFH role. To be honest, if I were you, I will be worried about she giving up her career completely.

All the best.

[TorqueyTechie]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

Friends - Looking for some guidance on whether a stint in the US makes sense for me at this point.

Let me quote my example. I was in a similar boat w.r.t finance (10+ years exp, no substantial savings, <16lpa annual salary, loans plus a kid on the way). Right about this time I got an offer to move to UK for few years. Since my wife also was working and could not move, we both had a long chat about it and decided that I alone will move to UK. What we also decided was :
1. Save as much as possible
2. Get family there for some time during my wife's maternity leave.
3. Plan at least couple of trips a year
4. Keep communicating as much as possible.

What really helped in point no 1 for me was Covid esp in 2020. Plus I also had a strong support system back home (both my mother as well as my in laws) to fall back on. After few years when I felt that it was not possible to be away from family, I decided to look out for any job openings back home. Again planned this at least 6 months in advance, prepared myself and post a job offer acceptance moved back home.

While I believe most of points which helped in making my decision would be same for you as well, the major ask for you and your wife is to discuss about your son's health and situation.
1. Would you be able to stay away from your son for long periods of time? (Video calls not withstanding)
2. Will your wife be able to manage things on her own? And how strong is the support system?
3. Most importantly how will your son cope up with your absence physically for long time.

If you believe you have the right answers for the above, I would suggest you to take up the US opportunity, save up to finish loans and then save up some more. Additionally before you have plans to move back, prepare and start looking out for opportunities back home and then get back. Hopefully by then the job market would be better.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

I'm working in an Indian MNC as senior manager - age close to 45, 20+ yrs experience, salary pretty bad (<30 LPA). My wife is not working; and I have a home loan which has to go on for 10 more years and this takes up more than 50% of my monthly take home income.

Alternatively, you could try to look for another job/role that pays better (maybe even reskill/upskill if possible).
Have you given that a thought?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

US salary is not bad (~140 KUSD in NJ area). Even with the living expenses, I belive I should be able to save a decent amount to at least close out the home loan early and even maybe have some decent savings. With my current Indian salary, living expenses and home loan, it's just about break even at the end of month with zero savings.

Lots of well meant and useful advice from members here. Clearly this is a tough call only your wife & you can take. Parental support will be almost 100% needed. My B-i-L has mental health issues and my in-laws could not have managed him without the support my wife extended. Your absence's impact not only on your wife but also your child has to be up there on your mind. Also consider the downsides if you lose your USA job 6 months after there.

Given federal & NJ state income taxes at $140k you will be paying about 25% of your salary as tax very roughly. Factor that in as well as a PPP of at least 2.5X to understand the purchasing power of your net salary as compared to the one you draw in India in INR on which you tax rate is probably around 15% or less.

Best wishes

[rajeshekm]

Note from Support: Please avoid quoting posts entirely, quote only relevant sections of posts. Thank you.

Originally Posted by androdev

Going with family is ruled out, serves no purpose really. There are two aspects to think about if are thinking of going alone.

Thanks androdev. My wife giving up her career worries both of us equally. We never planned it this way; it just happened that she had to be on leave for some time to take care of our kid; then she quit assuming she would join back in a year or two - and then the years just piled up. We are hoping she can get back to work, but not sure when. Having an autistic kid at home is a full time job in itself. We tried some WFH and part-time stuff, but with our son at home, it is difficult to do justice to your job if you are WFH and needless to say very stressful (he practically needs attention full time).

We do have a support system. Her father can stay with us and my parents are also around for support. But they are in their late sixties and early seventies so there are limitations to how much support they can provide. We can also arrange a full time servant at home to take care of household work and stuff.

Have to see how my wife and son would handle the situation. If I'm staying alone in US, I can take easily put up with a sh**** life easily. Been there done that as a bachelor in the US, but that was quite some time back.

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

Let me quote my example. I was in a similar boat w.r.t finance (10+ years exp, no substantial savings, <16lpa annual salary, loans plus a kid on the way). Right about this time I got an offer to move to UK for few years. Since my wife also was working and could not move, we both had a long chat about it and decided that I alone will move to UK. What we also decided was:

Thanks TorqueyTechie. Solid advice. My responses are as below.

1. Would you be able to stay away from your son for long periods of time? (Video calls not withstanding)
I'll miss them for sure, but given the financial benefits, I think I will be able to manage to stay away from my son and wife for some time. At least that's what I feel at the moment.

2. Will your wife be able to manage things on her own? And how strong is the support system?
Support system is the tricky part. As mentioned earlier, my wife's father can stay with us and we can have a full time servant for household help. My parents also stay nearby, so we can have a support system. How well she can manage with this needs to be seen though. Looking after my son 24/7 is emotionally draining.

3. Most importantly how will your son cope up with your absence physically for long time.
He will surely miss me. He is currently very attached to me. But with grandparents and his mother around, I hope he will manage. I havent stayed away from him for more than a day or two so I don't really know.

Originally Posted by NPV

Alternatively, you could try to look for another job/role that pays better (maybe even reskill/upskill if possible).
Have you given that a thought?

Yes, but switching jobs at the moment in the current market situation looks risky to me, especially with 20+ yrs experience under my belt. I'm currently the sole breadwinner and with a pretty large home loan EMI I don't feel like taking a risk at the moment. Maybe after a year or so I can try this.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Given federal & NJ state income taxes at $140k you will be paying about 25% of your salary as tax very roughly. Factor that in as well as a PPP of at least 2.5X to understand the purchasing power of your net salary as compared to the one you draw in India in INR on which you tax rate is probably around 15% or less.

Thanks Narayan. Yes, lots of well meaning and solid advice indeed. I'm so happy that so many good souls here are ready to help.

My US job is from my current company (it's an onsite opportunity) so no job switching involved. If the project ends, either I move to a different project in the US or I come back. If I'm going alone (which is what it looks like at the moment), with a 140K salary looks like I'll be able to save pretty decent amount. The main thing is how my wife and kid will manage back here. It all boils down to the support system here and how my wife & son will cope with my absence. As you said, this is a tough call which only me and my wife can collectively take.

[Imran.Syed]

Note from Support: Please avoid quoting posts entirely, quote only relevant sections of posts. Please proof read before posting. Thank you.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

You are still very young. Going by your introduction you have 40+ years of adventure ahead of you. Course correct and roll on.

Brilliantly put. I will turn 29 in a month. Been in Canada less than 5 months, so I have not lost a lot of time here. But I will not be losing anymore time, that is almost a certainty unless something drastic changes. I will not be able to be meet the physical presence requirement of 1095 days out of 1600 or so days. (3 years out of 5)
Will be maintaining the PR status though.

The figures are in CAD. Median wage here is something like 50k CAD. After tax it comes down to about CAD 3000 a month. Approx Studio rent in major cities: CAD 2000. It is a cruel joke.
But I was aware of the income un-attractiveness before migrating. Rents shot up with interest rate hikes. Wasn't so bad before from what I've heard.

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Thank you @V.Narayan for that PPP comparison. Really put things in perspective.

1. Ahhh, the Golden period of migrating to Canada was 2020-2021. Your work colleague probably does not realize how lucky he is.
About the mortgage, the term is 30 years but Canadian banks recalculate interests rate every 5 years for fixed term mortgages and variable is variable all the time. This I now realize may not be correct. I will recheck this.
2. Good for your friend. I have many friends who share a similar success story. They were able to buy houses without any or with very little capital infusion from their home countries.
3. Unfortunately, this is more common now than point #2. People, even those who have good jobs need capital infusions from their parents to be able to buy a house. Many I know did this too, and many are even doing it today, but this goes against my belief system. These capital infusions also come at opportunity costs but that differs on individual to individual. And they are unsustainable.

Originally Posted by kiku007

I'm sorry to know that Canada didn't meet your expectations. I haven't been to Canada but I understand they do have a lot of similarities with their southern hemisphere doppelganger, Australia. Both countries have a high dependency on the housing industry to prop up wealth and COL is in general higher than the USA. However, Canada and Australia offer a straightforward residency and citizenship pathway. There's always pros and cons. One has to chose what suits them.

No, you did not misunderstand my objectives.

1. Yes, it was/is the passport for me, along with a job with no savings but decent quality of life.. till I got here. I knew I'd be struggling badly but not in so many overwhelming ways.
2. Not all migrants wanted to leave. Most who came here pre-2022, especially those who were here from 2008+ vow to never leave. Those who came here and invested in properties are having a good time. Those who were not able to buy a property despite being here for multiple years are the ones that are burnt the most. These are the people who want to leave, to be able to afford a roof of their own over their heads. And not everybody is 100% excited about moving to USA or UAE.
3. This expensive environment is a completely different beast. I don't think anybody can budget for a 5-10% y-o-y inflation, which in reality is much, much higher. I am not asking for a free lunch, but when you see people your age, the Caucasians who were born here struggle for the same things you, a newcomer is struggling for, it is a problem. Canada and people living here have very cleverly disguised that and I fell prey to this too.
4. Maybe it would've been different.

[vibbs]

When it comes to median salary, I don't think it provides a good enough assessment to aid a go - no go decision. As an expat your expenses would be higher and that immediately throws the median salary out of the picture. For example median salary in Singapore is around SGD 5K. A 2 bedroom apartments away from city center has an asking rent on 3.5k. Add another 1 K for the kids education and there goes the median salary. My suggestion to anyone who is planning to relocate to Singapore is not to make the move if their salary is less than 10K (assuming they already make a decent living in India and will have to support their families in Singapore). This is twice the median salary here.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The purchasing power parity factor between the INR and CAD is 3.48 vs 1.14 or 3.03. To support immigration option let's call this 2.00 given that most of us are already in the Indian upper middle class here on Team BHP. So CAD 150k is in PPP terms like CAD 75k really which translates to Rs 45 lakhs before tax. For most salaried Indians in the upper middle class the effective tax rate is ~20%. In Canada income tax rates {Federal + State} together range in the 40s percentage effectively for a person earning CAD 150k. So after the arithmetic post-tax post-PPP income may not look so attractive at CAD 150k. Of course, each person's needs, aspirations and limitations are unique.

.

Thanks for this post V.Narayan. A very pragmatic approach, one that I always suggest to those asking me for advice on matters regarding relocation. I think at the end of the day, individual priorities should decide the whether or not one should make the move.

From the financial perspective the evaluation is actually quite simple. Do you save more than you did before making the move? If not, then do the additional benefits justify the opportunity cost?

For eg. In Singapore renting house and schooling for kids are the biggest expenses. So I simply recommend removing rent and schooling fees from the salary and then use PPP to factor in other expenses.

ie Post tax Salary - rent - schooling - (other monthly expenses in India) * PPP = savings.

This normally should give you a reasonable idea if moving makes sense financially or not

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

My US job is from my current company (it's an onsite opportunity) so no job switching involved. If the project ends, either I move to a different project in the US or I come back. If I'm going alone (which is what it looks like at the moment), with a 140K salary looks like I'll be able to save pretty decent amount. The main thing is how my wife and kid will manage back here. It all boils down to the support system here and how my wife & son will cope with my absence. As you said, this is a tough call which only me and my wife can collectively take.

I don't have anything else to add other than ask one question. Is there an opportunity closer home? Middle east may be? May be Singapore?

Why I ask this is because, the salary you mentioned is good for a single in these locations and will allow you to travel home once a fortnight. Not a long term solution, but it can offer an opportunity to earn some money in 2-3 years and be back home again.

[jayded]

Few things that we realised are much more efficient back in India (We were in Hyderabad), compared to Adelaide, Australia, where we migrated to, last year.
1. Digitalisation: In Australia, the dependency on snail mail is heavy even today and most paperwork takes ages to get done. You print out forms, send it through postal, wait weeks before it is processed, with no way to track what happens in between. Coming from India, this was and still is frustrating for us. A simple task like updating our son's immunisation record is so much more work than what one would imagine. In India, I don't recollect the last time I had to send something via postal.
2. Online shopping: Oh, Amazon has spoilt us with their same day delivery back in India. Online shopping is mostly a joke here, compared to the efficiency back in India. Here in Adelaide, the earliest you might get something delivered is in 6-7 days, while some take a month or so. Ebay is a similar story.
3. Delivery: In India, we are so used to walking into a furniture/electronic store, buying stuff and the store delivering all items at no extra cost to your home. And most cases, the items would be home even before you reach your home Doesn't work the same here. Almost all shops will charge you a decent fee for delivery, and in most cases you wait quite a few days before they delivery those.
4. Getting your vehicle serviced: Even your FNG here will have slots available only in 8-10 days from the day you call. At least that's my experience here in Adelaide, while back in India, I've never had to wait for more than a day to get a slot.

There are many more, but these are the ones on the top of my head.

Please note that I still don't consider these as bad, but that's how some things work here. They are in no way deal-breakers, but just needs some getting used to. Most times we take these things for granted in India and expect same or similar in a more developed country, but then you realise it's far from reality.

[mchandra13]

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

Friends - Looking for some guidance on whether a stint in the US makes sense for me at this point.

Now, the situation is that I have a chance to work in the US for at least a couple of years on an H1 (which might extend). US salary is not bad (~140 KUSD in NJ area). Even with the living expenses, I belive I should be able to save a decent amount to at least close out the home loan early and even maybe have some decent savings. With my current Indian salary, living expenses and home loan, it's just about break even at the end of month with zero savings.

What I'm worried about is how we will manage with my son's schooling and special education sessions in the US. I dont know how much these will cost in the US and whether these will be covered under insurance (probably not). If the sessions are going to be prohibitively expenses, it will probably wipe out all my savings.

I would really appreciate any inputs related to schooling and special education support for mildly autistic children in the US. I have no idea on this in terms of expense and effectiveness.

- For your experience and age, 140k in NJ is not that great but it is still better than what many others are getting. Even after tax and insurance costs, you will still be making around 8k in hand per month. Thats not bad for a start. However your saving potential will be little lower considering your situation with the child.
- As per my experience, the northern part of NJ around NYC is not very livable. you will probably be better off living in central NJ areas around Princeton or West Windsor where the median 2BHK rent is ~$2500. You can add another 1-2k for other living expenses. Now you can do the math on whether it will work for you.
- ABA therapies are covered by insurance pretty much in all the 50 US states. The extent of coverage may vary from state to state. Check NJ Dept. of Human Services for details. You can also check with your potential insurance company on the coverage of charges for therapies
- ASD is a pretty common thing in US society and the acceptance of such cases in the society is much higher without any social stigma attached to it. I have really close friends who have kids with ASD and I havent seen too much of a difference in their lifestyles because of the kid. They come and join us in parties along with the kid sometimes, however one of them has to constantly baby sit the high school going kid thru the duration of the party. They go on vacations with kid to all sorts of places. I have even seen both spouses working successfully while managing such kids at home. So the biggest thing I feel is the acceptance and accommodation in social life and also the facilities available both treatment wise and in schools.
- Based on what I have seen, treatment for ASD and the insurance coverage of such therapies should not be a deal breaker for you in deciding to move to US on H1. You wont go bankrupt because of these treatments. Infact, seniors in my organization consciously move to US due to the better facilities available to handle the children with special needs

A stint in US with or without family will definitely help your current situation. Pls do a little bit more digging around with insurance and hospitals to understand the cost and coverage of treatments/therapies and take an appropriate call.

[hdus001]

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

Median wage here is something like 50k CAD. After tax it comes down to about CAD 3000 a month.

I wonder how representative the quoted median wages are for white-collar jobs that immigrants from India typically work in. Living in Australia which as someone mentioned is the Canadian equivalent in the Southern Hemisphere, the median pay is about $70k or so a year, but most jobs in the IT or Medical sectors (sectors popular with Indian immigrants) pay more than twice this.

(Similar to India - the median income in India I'm guessing is way lower than say a typical IT salary)

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by mchandra13

I have really close friends who have kids with ASD and I havent seen too much of a difference in their lifestyles because of the kid.

Please... autism is one area where one should not give advice based on second hand experience. Autism parents get very good at hiding the stress/pain they undergo in order to live a normal life. People around them start thinking it is not a big deal. Recently a very close friend invited my family for dinner. First I said only my wife and I will attend because it would be a hassle to manage the kid at an unfamiliar house. Our older son usually manages him when we go out. But the friend insisted we all come, and so we went. Then his whole family watched 3 of us continuously deal with him for two hours, who kept moving room to room as he was too excited. He was not unruly or violent, his 13 years of therapy has fixed that. But he would make demands every minute to get over his anxiety of the new place. We had to take turns talking to the host while other two managed him.

A day later the friend called and said "OMG, sorry, I didn't know. How are you dealing with this all these years..."

Originally Posted by rajeshekm

People with autistic kids can understand but it's difficult for other colleagues and relatives to understand.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by hdus001

(Similar to India - the median income in India I'm guessing is way lower than say a typical IT salary)

Even median IT salary is way lower than the numbers usually mentioned in this forum.