[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by kiku007

The following website provides some insights on the Rule of law rankings. The results aren't surprising.

Thank you @kiku007 for sharing this data.

All,

My thoughts as follows:-

Directionally the results are at a very broad sweep correct e.g., to say Finland is better than Italy or Italy is above Egypt or USA is ahead of China sounds right. All my life I have been seeing these rankings of some attribute or the other always, but always pulled together by a Western agency viewing a deeply diverse world through their lens. These rankings would be more meaningful if a neutral body, comprised of multi-national representatives, measuring bodies and juries did this. Western analysts even when working sincerely lack perspective of the global south and that becomes worse when they try to measure large nations such as China, India, Brazil, Indonesia etc. Even with their own western countries there seems to be a significant gauge R&R. I mean is Italy behind Dominica? And is Belgium behind USA? I can understand USA is ahead of India, but I wonder why it is ahead of France and say Mauritius! This question is keeping in mind the deep institutionalized corruption amongst US parliamentarians, gerrymandering i.e. MPs redrawing their own constituency's borders to suit their vote winning needs, school killings, highest incarceration rate etc. Would these authors like to factor in the violence and deaths USA has directly brought upon in other countries in recent years? - should that be a part of the assessment? Bringing these points up to show that the debate is far deeper than these tin pot surverys commissioned by some NGO.

In case of China they clearly forgot to interview the Ughyurs or the millions of rural folks working in sweat shops as all but bonded labour not free to return home or even leave the city of employment. Hair splitting academics might contend that is a freedom index issue but I believe millions as bonded labour or in concentration camps reflects something seriously out of kilter with your law and the manner in which 'order' component is being selectively imposed. I think they also forgot to factor in the surfeit of pimps and call girls who crawl in any Chinese 4-star or 3-star hotel - I've had to contend with time on literally each of the dozen visits to that country as a single male. Never ever encountered that in India, thank fully not even in a OYO Rooms lodge in Tier III towns.

Or as another example on the one occasion I visited South Africa on business my host provided me with not one but two armed escorts round the clock from inside the airport. I had to use them even to just walk three blocks down. And I am not the only one to have dealt with this. That was like Nigeria where I once had a branch for 6 years. And mind you I'm just an ordinary SME business guy and not worth kidnapping.

And finally as with all such qualitative measures the 28 micro-states with populations less than half a million should be kept in a separate basket because while they maybe UN members they are little more than a suburb of a city.

I'll skip my views on India as four of us will have five opinions on such a touchy topic except to say that directionally we are in the middle sounds about right.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Hmmm... I feel safer on the streets of Chennai late at night than I would have done in London even twenty years ago.

Rule of law works isn't just about violent crime though. India doesn't do too badly with violent crime but when it comes to more mundane rule of law matters, there is a long way to catch up.

Motoring example: When a KSRTC bus wants to bully its way ahead of a motorcycle instead of giving way and waiting - that is a rule of law problem.

That one example alone isn't enough to move abroad obviously but add up thousands of little things like that and it does become a factor to consider when deciding whether to move or not.

[iFrag]

Originally Posted by pandey.jai

Folks, is it worth going to the US on L1B? The 5 year max limit with no option for switching jobs feels like a non-starter to me. Thoughts?

Edit:
For context, I’m questioning the merits of moving to the US on L1B based on factors such as kids schooling, time and effort it takes to move out of India, settle down in the US and then before you know it, do the same thing back, because 5 years will be up before you know it. I’m keeping money out of the equation here.

L1B is a golden handcuff IMO, unless you switch to H1B after being on L1, then only you can switch companies. Otherwise you are stuck in the same company.

That being said L1B offers the opportunity for your spouse to work from Day 1. Whereas on H1B, you will need get your I140 approved in order for your spouse to work on EAD, 140 processing takes 2-4 years depending on when they start the GC process.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Rule of law works isn't just about violent crime though. India doesn't do too badly with violent crime but when it comes to more mundane rule of law matters, there is a long way to catch up.

Motoring example: When a KSRTC bus wants to bully its way ahead of a motorcycle instead of giving way and waiting - that is a rule of law problem.

That one example alone isn't enough to move abroad obviously but add up thousands of little things like that and it does become a factor to consider when deciding whether to move or not.

If anyone wants better rule of law on the roads, then indeed they must emigrate!

[Jabber]

Moving to the US in your situation would be a good option, in my opinion. Others have made excellent points about work life balance, quality of life, cars etc. I would like to add the following advantages:

1. L1A is the best visa for Indians moving to the US. Green card gets significantly fast tracked for people on L1A. There is no restriction on dependent spouse to work in the US (unlike H1B).

2. The options for sports and outdoor activities are vast. Many activities that are very expensive, difficult or simply not possible to do in India are easy to do. Examples include adventure sports, playing golf, fishing, hunting (if you are into it).

I moved back from US with my family before COVID to support ageing parents. We have no regrets, but just sometimes miss our life there.

[akhil_007]

Originally Posted by AZT

I've moved to Toronto recently, also inter company transfer. At that CAD salary better to stay put

Originally Posted by grshnehete

100K salary with family will be lot of struggle. Please bear in mind, there will be tax which will be deducted. There will be no savings on this salary. I think it will be a mistake to move with family.

Originally Posted by tj123

If you're earning a 100K CAD salary, expect to pay about 30-35% in taxes depending on the province you're moving to.

Thank you all for your replies.

My buddy along with me tapped some contacts in Canada to get more info.

Here is the summary
1. If we were to negotiate/interview with other companies, offers are not high enough. Example: 125K would be a max good salary. Getting 190-200k offers are very very unlikely. In some cases, only C-suite positions command that kind of offers(although their bonuses are as high as salary)
2. Yearly hikes are not that great. Its almost always <5%
3. Switching companies would not increase offers by 30% minimum as it happens in India.

I find this very strange and hard to believe but we heard this from atleast 4-5 people who are in Toronto since 3-5 years.

Could you please throw more light on these aspects?

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Could you please throw more light on these aspects?

I had a Intercompany transfer offer of 120K CAD. My transfer was complete, Flights were booked but i was in 2 minds due for obvious reasons. It's a kind of once in lifetime opportunity and i wanted to be 200% sure of my decision.

Spoke to many colleagues & friends there & one thing i realised is that appox 50% of my salary will go to housing alone if i was to maintain similar lifestyle. Quick calculation showed me a saving of hardy 600-700 CAD a month. A annual trip to india will take care of that as well with a family of 4. With 2 grown up boy's it's almost impossible to live a decent live in that salary & i was not ready to live in basements just because it's canada.

Switched jobs and I am not missing CAD at all

[m8002?]

Unless you and your spouse are working, its very difficult to afford an affluent lifestyle in Canada - especially in the large cities.
There is very little chance of large savings with a salary of 100-120 CAD. If you are particular about moving to a first world country at any cost and willing to put up with severe cold, then one can consider moving.

[akhil_007]

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Thank you all for your replies.

My buddy along with me tapped some contacts in Canada to get more info.

Could you please throw more light on these aspects?

Adding more context. How easy/difficult is it to get offers of 180-200k? (Single income and not combined income)

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Adding more context. How easy/difficult is it to get offers of 180-200k? (Single income and not combined income)

You need to be an Architect or Sr.Director/VP to get that kind of salaries. Of course, there are always exceptions. But with the downturn now, it might be a bit difficult.

See if the company allows WFH in which case you can stay at a far away suburb where rentals might be less. I know of people in my company who travel 1.5 hours by train ( 2 days a week ) to arrive at the office in downtown Toronto.

Also note, downtown offices rarely have parking like the tech parks in India. So budget around 20-30 CAD for parking each day if one is driving down to office.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by pandey.jai

Folks, is it worth going to the US on L1B? The 5 year max limit with no option for switching jobs feels like a non-starter to me. Thoughts?

Edit:
For context, I’m questioning the merits of moving to the US on L1B based on factors such as kids schooling, time and effort it takes to move out of India, settle down in the US and then before you know it, do the same thing back, because 5 years will be up before you know it. I’m keeping money out of the equation here.

It will depend on a lot where you are moving, your salary and cost of living. If you are moving to a city like San Francisco or NYC on $100k income then its definitely not worth it. Also would you be able to switch to a H-1b visa in the future so you can change jobs?

One misconception I want to highlight regarding the quick Green Card process everyone talks about on L-1A visa. L-1 is a visa type and most people on this visa go through the EB-1C category of the green card process. However you don't need to be on L-1A to go through this category , you can be on H-1b, L-1B, L-2 etc. however you need to meed the criteria for EB-1 (people manager or functional manager abroad and in the US). There are also EB-1A and EB-1B categories for Green Card for extraordinary ability or researcher which are harder to qualify and can be applied for while on any visa type.

One random fact I recently found out that if you or your spouse are not born in India (a friend of mine's wife is born in Nepal) but you can be Indian Citizens then you get your employment based Green Card in 1-2 years no matter which category (EB-1,2 or 3) you apply from or visa type H-1b, L-1b etc. This is because USCIS charges the visa number to which every country quota which is available between the spouses.

[download2live]

Originally Posted by akhil_007

1. If we were to negotiate/interview with other companies, offers are not high enough. Example: 125K would be a max good salary. Getting 190-200k offers are very very unlikely. In some cases, only C-suite positions command that kind of offers(although their bonuses are as high as salary)
2. Yearly hikes are not that great. Its almost always <5%
3. Switching companies would not increase offers by 30% minimum as it happens in India.

Could you please throw more light on these aspects?

1. Salaries do not show the wild swings like they do in India. In India it is (was?) the currency conversion which makes it possible for software companies to offer salaries out of step with rest of the industries. It was still cheaper for them.
In fact a half decent electrician or plumber can make same or more than an average software engineer here.

2. Hikes are linked to inflation. So 3 to 4% is norm.

3. Switching companies indeed does not lead to big hikes. Unless one is moving to FAANG (MAANG?).

On a broader scale they are letting in lot of people (Canada and Australia at least) and one of the aims among others is to make sure that the housing market keeps afloat. Both these countries have people who are under record housing debt and as interest rates have risen the monthly repayments have gone up. One reason they want more people coming in so that there is more competition for housing and rents boom elevating the pain for landlords.

At least in case of Australia last time there was a resource boom when record migration happened. This time I am not sure what is there to support this migration.

Your friend should do his rent related calculations very carefully. It is going to eat away a fair bit of his salary.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by download2live

One reason they want more people coming in so that there is more competition for housing and rents boom elevating the pain for landlords.

Not clear what you mean here. Don't you mean mitigating the pain of the houseowners?

[download2live]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Not clear what you mean here. Don't you mean mitigating the pain of the houseowners?

I should stay away from difficult to spell words ! It should have been "alleviating".

[pandey.jai]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Also would you be able to switch to a H-1b visa in the future so you can change jobs?


However you don't need to be on L-1A to go through this category , you can be on H-1b, L-1B, L-2 etc. however you need to meed the criteria for EB-1 (people manager or functional manager abroad and in the US). There are also EB-1A and EB-1B categories for Green Card for extraordinary ability or researcher which are harder to qualify and can be applied for while on any visa type.

H1 - probably not, but then nothing is stopping me from applying for the lottery while I’m there, via a different company.

EB1 - that’s easier said than done though. Company politics and policies are a pain.