[dar3dev|l]

as i see back when i started my career, ive realised that i was much happier on the step lower than the each higher i took in my professional life. Not just the profile, but the paychecks too. The lesser it was, the happier i was.

May be it was becoz my personal resposibilities increased by the day, may be it was the hunger for earning more and having the feeling to payoff the debts and have a more peaceful life. But the earnings were NEVER enough !!! OR May be its working for someone that puts me down thinking that if i can work so hard for someone, why cant work the same and get to earn for myself ??? The feelings are completely different. Even thou i might earn 1/4 of what i earn now, the satisfaction is priceless !!! I have seen ppl doing the routine job and happy with the revolving "home-work-getpaid-home" wheel and happy with the way things are. I have also seen ppl working their *** out the entire day and just earning little enough to feed his family, but the smile and satisfaction that he has on his face is worth a million dollars !!

IMO, once someone is working for doing a job of his own, he tends to work harder than what he might have put while he would work for someone !!

Just few cents from my side

the movie, The Pursuit of Happyness, inspires me to not worry evn if i dont have any money to survive and to just do what i want to and what makes me happy.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by zenx

... its in those same environments that you'll find more people completely chucking ... Anecdotal evidence is usually misleading.

No, it is not about the anecdotal, considering (check with the people that you work with at your customers) a massive majority manages professional and personal aspects without chucking it. If the motive is wrong, it is what is, in colloquial Hindi, referred to as uchakna!

Originally Posted by zenx

... Its not always about resenting something ... Each of us is just wired differently. ... its also the "affordability" of risk taking...

Sure, its a fine line between using these as an excuse to not involving yourself in your job enough - which is why quitting at the top is the right way to do it. ... looking to write their own left-hand-side of their lives' report cards, not as dictated by someone else.

I completely agree with the first part. However ...

The thread title says "Fed up and ...", and obviously the original premise of the thread starter, with all due respect, was that perhaps there are alternatives to the circumstances of boredom and ennui, and not "quitting at the top" nor a desire to "write their own..." as you put it (quite wisely I must say)!

Originally Posted by dar3dev|l

... May be it was becoz my personal resposibilities increased by the day, may be it was the hunger for earning more and having the feeling to payoff the debts and have a more peaceful life. But the earnings were NEVER enough !!! ... ppl working their *** out the entire day and just earning little enough to feed his family, but the smile and satisfaction that he has on his face is worth a million dollars !! ...

Could it be an issue of "coping up with responsibilities"? The guy you see who has a million dollar smile at the end of a back breaking day is still able to cope up. Perhaps he has controlled his objectives in life to what he can, ignoring what all he could.

I have unsuccessfully tried to answer the same questions to myself, having gone through the same stages / situations / desires in my life. What worked for me was concentrating on balancing my life, as opposed to looking for alternatives. Keeps me moderately sane! Might work for you, might not - just don't lose faith in whatever you choose.

[lohithrao]

Pretty interesting thread, which many can relate to

One of my friend said goodbye to a good IT career and took up farming! today he is satisfied atleast he was when i spoke to him last time

I guess i would like to do something similar and i know loads of them who are on the same track but the que is how many can take the plunge? there are many factors which will lay a deciding role in this.

FOr me i have started to take everyday as it comes and trying to think positive helps you to go on, as many have said grass looks green other side.

[LonelyPlanet]

The grass is always greener on the other side - farmers want to come to the city and city dwellers want to go to farming....

[Sli_ce]

This is a nice thread, i know a lot of us can identify with the "stuck in the wrong job" syndrome.

I had exhausted myself thinking that i am wasting my precious time and life in IT, i quit my job at the beginning of this year, and now preparing to get into a good college to study Anthropology. wish me luck!

One life, One chance.

[dar3dev|l]

Originally Posted by Sli_ce

This is a nice thread, i know a lot of us can identify with the "stuck in the wrong job" syndrome.

I had exhausted myself thinking that i am wasting my precious time and life in IT, i quit my job at the beginning of this year, and now preparing to get into a good college to study Anthropology. wish me luck!

One life, One chance.

wishing u all the best for your new career buddy !!

[oss]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

Shhhhh, don't say it so openly.

Most of those morons/jokers would be on this forum too.

Rohan

Yeah!! Who knows may be some o fmy subordinates might be saying the same thing about me as well. Afterall in corporate life everyone is expected to conform to the org norms, don't we? That's where the org culture becomes more important for one to enjoy the work.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The answer in most cases is "seldom / never". The organization / enterprise that we work in is just a passive framework, it is we who are the active elements. The situation is no different in our families in our personal lives, yet we don't think of it as a lack of something happening. Do we think of dissociating ourselves? NEVER! Almost none of us carry the ethics we have in our families to our jobs. Does someone pay us in our families to live a steady life despite the natural urge for change (humans are wired like that)? NO! Yet we impose the thoughts of boredom and ennui into our professional lives where we get paid. That is ethics, or lack of it.

Most of the time we are resenting the state which unknowingly is of our own creation. The limitations that we think are imposed on us in office are because we imagine them. Do we ever think of freedom of responsible thought and action within the ambit of the organizational framework? Seldom, if ever.

True, in organisations most of the time it the feeling of helpless-ness which does us in. Taking control may not be possible all the time, unless you want to be the Angry Young Man.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

I have always wondered why people in developed countries have a different ethos. I had worked with a colleague in Germany 15 years back on a Vehicle Simulator, on which he had already worked for 5 years. The last I checked he was still on it even after after 20 years! In the meantime, he got married, has been raising his children, and done a ton of other things. When I had asked him about how he relates to his job, he had told me his job only served to feed all the other facets of his life, and was not the center of his thinking. Yet, I am yet to meet an engineer more competent than him. All the people I have worked with in Germany, France, UK, US and Japan - they held the same belief, and all are excellence personified in their professions.

Yes, i think they put their personal interest ahead of their profession or may be treat them as equally important, so if things don't go well, they still do their part satisfactorily and focus on their personal interests. And most importantly they don't become the victim of circumstances, as they have clearly defined roles and responsibility. When that is unheard of in our system, and we are at the mercy of the organisation or the powers that be, there is no escaping the fact that we need to either conform to the system, leave your conscience and be one of them, or be a rebel and get ignored/left out. That is when the job starts to suck.

[WindRide]

Boy, am i glad i put up this thread. Lots of interesting insights into an issue we all face in our everyday professional lives.

Originally Posted by arun1100

I feel really depressed going through this thread.

Not to worry. The jaded feeling comes in only after you put in 7-10 years of service in any profession. In the begining, there will be the learning, the bonding, the dreaming, the partying, etc. Its only later, when you settle down and start eyeing the career graph that the problem begins. Friends become competitors, hard work gets replaced with 'doing-just-enough' to get that coveted promotion, gaining expertise in back-stabbing,etc.
So enjoy the initial years. Just make sure you have a Plan-B.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

I have always wondered why people in developed countries have a different ethos. I had worked with a colleague in Germany 15 years back on a Vehicle Simulator, on which he had already worked for 5 years. The last I checked he was still on it even after after 20 years! In the meantime, he got married, has been raising his children, and done a ton of other things. When I had asked him about how he relates to his job, he had told me his job only served to feed all the other facets of his life, and was not the center of his thinking. Yet, I am yet to meet an engineer more competent than him. All the people I have worked with in Germany, France, UK, US and Japan - they held the same belief, and all are excellence personified in their professions.

Even i know many of my colleagues abroad who are product specialists, people who care more about being experts in a particular domain than worry about promotions,etc. Infact, many of them prefer to stick to the current role for many many years, just to ensure the interest in the work continues. I guess, here in India we are all in a hurry to reach nowhere. Maybe westerners practice more than us the golden words from The Gita - "Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana, Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani" ("You have a right to perform your prescribed action,but you are not entitled to the fruits of your action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results your activities,and never be associated to not doing your duty."). I think, once you concentrate on gaining excellence and not worry about what others feel about you, you will be happy.

Originally Posted by LonelyPlanet

The grass is always greener on the other side - farmers want to come to the city and city dwellers want to go to farming....

Not sure how you meant it. Iam not saying get into farming because it can make you wealthier. I only want to take up an alternative career because there will be some MEANING to my efforts, unlike the rut most of us face nowadays.

Originally Posted by oss

... there is no escaping the fact that we need to either conform to the system, leave your conscience and be one of them, or be a rebel and get ignored/left out. That is when the job starts to suck.

You hit the nail on the head. I guess its the rebels / truth-seekers who are left out to lick their wounds in isolation.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

P.S. When i saw the last reply was yours, i guessed this was coming!

Same here! Had to see what you were saying!

Regards
Sutripta

[sbraj]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The organization / enterprise that we work in is just a passive framework, it is we who are the active elements. The situation is no different in our families in our personal lives, yet we don't think of it as a lack of something happening. Do we think of dissociating ourselves? NEVER! Almost none of us carry the ethics we have in our families to our jobs. Does someone pay us in our families to live a steady life despite the natural urge for change (humans are wired like that)? NO! Yet we impose the thoughts of boredom and ennui into our professional lives where we get paid. That is ethics, or lack of it.

Is it ethics? Or is it love? We all love our families, don't we? If we love our work (work, not the company) then wouldn't it be similar?

Originally Posted by oss

True, in organisations most of the time it the feeling of helpless-ness which does us in. Taking control may not be possible all the time, unless you want to be the Angry Young Man.

Originally Posted by WindRide

I guess its the rebels / truth-seekers who are left out to lick their wounds in isolation.

I think this happens when one is engaged emotionally (ego involvement). Our job expects us to play certain roles. One has to assess the role and see whether one's personality suits the role. Personality mismatch may lead to emotional involvement and all the subsequent negativities. Very similar to case of families in discord.

Originally Posted by WindRide

"You have a right to perform your prescribed action,but you are not entitled to the fruits of your action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results your activities,and never be associated to not doing your duty."

Don't forget the paycheck. Very important.

Originally Posted by GTO

One of my biggest motivators is pursuing perfection & excellence. I may in some, I may not in some...but that doesn't stop me from trying to do a heck of a good job.

I do spend a lot of time on Team-BHP, and hence voted for option no.2

Of course Team-BHP is benefiting. Question is, is that why you rush to office? Thread premise is that the job itself should be able to make one do that.

[Fraz33r]

As far as I am concerned and the general discussion going around, it is indeed would be a very big step and is not at all possible for a human being who has/will have responsibilities because that's how our culture is.

In the west this is not a problem, when I was working in my college I met an accountant (not the one who files and maintains stuff in those cabinets), He was a pro, I mean the way he was using Excel as a programming tool and macro's in general i was literally awed and that too not having a very good professional degree. In general conversation I came to know that he previously he was a construction worker.

I was literally shocked, that is because , here the options are different. There are responsibilities which the government shoulders .So the general observation which i remembered from the famous Steve Jobs presentation (this one is very apt here) is to keep looking for new avenues.

YouTube - Steve Jobs Stanford Commencement Speech 2005

Continue doing your work, but whenever you get a chance dig into something new that interests you and when this interest turns out to overpower the existing job, its time to switch to the entrepreneur in yourself.

Currently I am doing the same, but I still don't know whether a particular thing interests me that i will pursue it as a lifelong career.

[Blue_V]

Engineering Services are more like dust bins for OEMs. The media just hypes stuff like aero industry boom etc but how many million dollar contracts have been signed? Very few. This is the poor man's IT. And media also writes about why 80% (something) of Indian students are not eligible for R&D or design work, unless we are exposed to it how can you know? Unless you are given a chance, how can they know?

[zaks]

A good topic. My rant follows-

As all agrees here this feeling of stuck nowhere starts to creep in after about 7-10 years in the industry. That' because that is the time it typically takes to know most of the things in your job to get things done. Well, now here comes the difference-
After this period, we as most of us know want to get settled in our lives which in other words means "getting promotions and doing less of an engineers job". This one trait is a major cause of lack of skills in the senior people in the industry we see today, of course with some exceptions. Result we have a lot of middle and senior management who are just not competent enough to take on new challenges and are just content to keep the ball rolling. This frustrates a lot of young minds who eventually follow them in the same footsteps

My company in our India center have more postions/grades compared to rest of it's centers worldwide and you know the reason why? They concluded that we Indians hankered more after positions than job satisfaction. So they just created more grades in between to appease us!

And the next trait which causes this loneliness and boredom- We, as many have already noted don't have any kind of personal hobbies or alternative skills to pursue to keep us creative. Almost all people in IT are in IT because of the paycheck it provides and the certain level of lifestyle it affords for us. We are churning out engineers by the thousands like a brick manufacturing factory and 90% of whom get into IT even if he desires to be mechanical, electrical, civil, aeronautic, etc engineer. The lack of alternative skills/hobbies in our lives and the employment which is just there to satisfy our desire for stability and standard of living will finally lead to the feeling we are seeing. In the west our peers (mostly) are mutli-talented and have wide range of cross section of interests and hobbies which makes their lives anything but dull and boy, they love their work which naturally makes them good at it.

The third and most affecting trait I can think of - This chakravyuh of life we get sucked in to gives us little berth to work on alternatives. This chakravyuh is nothing but our typical middle class life route of:
Good job status->Nice family->Nice car->Nice home->Nice kids->Nice retirement.
Not to say that these are not to be desired for but working your entire life for the next nice thing takes the life out of your Life. Passion is a word almost unheard of.

One final word and I can say this with full confidence-
"We are risk averse unlike our peers in the west, we don't dare because we are s**t scared of venturing outside our comfort zone" (of course there are some exceptions).

[anujmishra]

I am not the one who want's to stay late in office even when I was bachelor. But many times company's adopted culture that force you to stay back till midnight or till next morning for chasing unrealistic targets set by incompetent management.

It is too much of stress for me now just to spend time at office and asking my reportees to stay back. I do not have any other alternative.

First half of my carrer was breeze. That time I was bachelor too and used to leave by 6 PM sharp to my home or for other recreational work. I swithed my company during second half of my career and ordeal started. Second half, I shifted to Bangalore. Working for big MNC but always became victim of chasing unrealistic targets along with many others in my company. Family life ruined but I am getting promoted to the ladder.

More you promoted more your managers will remind you for greater participation in chasing unrealistic targets. How long will it continue? many time this thought comes into my mind. Can I switch again? What if other company also work in this fashion? I have seen in my headquarters, people not have gone home for 3 - 4 days, not slept for 3 days and continously popping stress buster medicine to keep them awake.

If I would not do, there are persons ready to prove. God save us from this culture. Is this the way I need to spend my life? Big question for me. I am pursuing my passion but many times we start hating our passion and slowly it will be no more our passion.

[amitoj]

Voted for option 1.
Wish i was running a small tea shop in some remote scandinavian country