[carboy]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I eat things made from jaggery/honey.

Those are not so different from sugar.

Originally Posted by Sheel

Sugar free things might damage your kidneys in the long run, few doctors were discussing over it.

There is so evidence for this. I have been having it (Sacharin, Aspartame & Sucralose) for 30 years now.

Originally Posted by Sheel

Artificial sugar has aspartame, which is not good to have in the long run.

Sugarfree can be Sachharin, Apartame or Sucralose. None of those have been shown to be harmful. Sacharin, in particular, has been in use for 100+ years, I think. Unfortunately, the last 2 brands of Sacharin have stopped production in India.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by carboy

Those are not so different from sugar.
.

You mean to say that natural honey/ jaggery (खजूर गुड़) is as harmful as processed sugar?

I do not think so.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Sheel

You mean to say that natural honey/ jaggery (खजूर गुड़) is as harmful as processed sugar?

I do not think so.

There is no such thing as good sugar or bad sugar. Sugar leads to glucose spike in blood which leads to insulin, which leads to fat storage. Having said that compared to white sugar, honey or jaggery have lower glycemic index which result in slow release of glucose to the blood stream. So, the insulin spike with honey or jaggery will be less compared to white sugar. But if you have hit a plateau in your weight loss, then the next step would be to avoid sugar in all forms - honey or jaggery.

[nevinfrancis]

Originally Posted by graaja

There is no such thing as good sugar or bad sugar. Sugar leads to glucose spike in blood which leads to insulin, which leads to fat storage.

actually, to add to this - weight gain or weight loss relies basically on the management of the hormone insulin and in the absence of insulin. eg. during intermittent or even prolonged fasting, say for eg. over 20 hours or more, autophagy happens and that leads to a world of good to our health. Infact the mechanism of autophagy as discovered by Yoshinoro Ohsumi won the Nobel in 2016.

There are some really good and instructive videos on all these in youtube by
Dr.Jason Fung, Dr.Eric Berg, Thomas DeLauer etc.

Once you understand the basic dynamics of insulin management, as GTO pointed out - weight loss and maintenance is really a walk in the park.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by nevinfrancis

...
There are some really good and instructive videos on all these in Youtube by
Dr.Jason Fung, Dr.Eric Berg, Thomas DeLauer etc.
...
Once you understand the basic dynamics of insulin management, as GTO pointed out - weight loss and maintenance is really a walk in the park.

Completely agree. Once you understand the fact that weight is mainly a hormonal problem than from calories, it is very easy to tailor the diet and manage weight.

I regularly watch Dr. Fung's videos on IF. Also, I always emphasize the point that the most important benefits of IF are autophagy and weight loss. So, even if someone is not overweight, doing IF can be beneficial. It will slow down the aging process and in many, can reverse it and make one look much younger.

That is the reason why I am trying to bring IF into my triathlon training. Have not been successful yet, but I am sure I will get there.

[carbookie]

There is no good sugar.
Processed sugar = sugar in dates = sugar in juices.

The effect of sugar in body is tempered if taken with fibres. Otherwise sugar metabolises the same way in body, irrespective of the source

[carboy]

Originally Posted by graaja

Having said that compared to white sugar, honey or jaggery have lower glycemic index which result in slow release of glucose to the blood

Nope. Jaggery has much higher glycemic index than sugar. And honey only has a slightly less glycemic index than sugar.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by carboy

Nope. Jaggery has much higher glycemic index than sugar. And honey only has a slightly less glycemic index than sugar.

Apologies for the mistake. Thanks for correction about jaggery's higher glycemic index

[ebonho]

Does bulletproof coffee after a ride, no breakfast, work guys?

Thinking of that at 830 after my bike ride, then lunch at 2, early dinner before 8, and then fasting for next 12 hours.

I know Intermittent Fasting needs minimum 16 hours, but life schedule-wise what to do?

Looking for some solid tips please. Need to drop 15 kilos quickly. I'm 180 cm and back to 95 kilos from my leanest cycling weight of 80 about a year back.

Cheers, Doc

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Does bulletproof coffee after a ride, no breakfast, work guys?

Thinking of that at 830 after my bike ride, then lunch at 2, early dinner before 8, and then fasting for next 12 hours.

I know Intermittent Fasting needs minimum 16 hours, but life schedule-wise what to do?

Looking for some solid tips please. Need to drop 15 kilos quickly. I'm 180 cm and back to 95 kilos from my leanest cycling weight of 80 about a year back.

Cheers, Doc

In one of the YouTube videos, Dr. Jason Fung had answered this question. A bulletproof coffee, though it contains calories, does not have any carbs. Hence it does not result in insulin secretion in the body and in a way mimics IF. So, if bulletproof coffee after a ride works for you, you should have that. But remember when you have bulletproof coffee, the body will take energy from the fat from bulletproof coffee and will stop breaking the fat stored in the body.

Check out the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dC07AKODsk

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by graaja

In one of the YouTube videos, Dr. Jason Fung had answered this question. A bulletproof coffee, though it contains calories, does not have any carbs. Hence it does not result in insulin secretion in the body and in a way mimics IF. So, if bulletproof coffee after a ride works for you, you should have that. But remember when you have bulletproof coffee, the body will take energy from the fat from bulletproof coffee and will stop breaking the fat stored in the body.

Makes sense. But is it really possible to do a fasted workout (say a brisk 40 km ride, about 1:45) AND go to work without eating anything, and actually be productive all the way till say an earliest 12:30 lunch)???

Then a dinner by 8. So both meals in the allowed 8 he window. And then a 16 hour fast.

Sounds like a recipe for nodding off at work. Maybe even muscle loss and soreness and poor recovery (the proteins within 30 min of exercise adage)?

Can you suggest something that is easy to manage with my training and work routine please?

Bulletproof coffee looked like a workable cheat. I was all ready to go get the ingredients and small blender today evening.

Cheers, Doc

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Makes sense. But is it really possible to do a fasted workout (say a brisk 40 km ride, about 1:45) AND go to work without eating anything, and actually be productive all the way till say an earliest 12:30 lunch)???

Then a dinner by 8. So both meals in the allowed 8 he window. And then a 16 hour fast.

Sounds like a recipe for nodding off at work. Maybe even muscle loss and soreness and poor recovery (the proteins within 30 min of exercise adage)?

Can you suggest something that is easy to manage with my training and work routine please?

Bulletproof coffee looked like a workable cheat. I was all ready to go get the ingredients and small blender today evening.

Cheers, Doc

This is going to be a long post, but I will try to answer your questions from my own experience.

Once you get over the first few days of your body resisting the fasted state, you will actually feel more energetic and active in fasted state at work. After all, our body has been programmed to use fat as its primary fuel source. This is from my own experience.

Regarding muscle loss, from what I have read and watched, unless you are into long periods of fasting like 36 hours and more, body does not burn protein. In one of the videos on IF, Dr. Jason Fung says our body has evolved over a million years to store fat and then use this fat during starvation. Unless it runs out of stored fat, it does not burn muscles. This makes total sense, and I don't think we have the risk of muscle loss in a 16:8 fasting cycle.

Regarding fasted state workout, from my own experience, yes, it is possible to do a fasted workout and then extend the fasting till 12:30 and be productive at work. More than post workout fasting, it is about how long a workout you can do in fasted state and in what intensity you can do the workout. When you are doing low intensity workout in your endurance zone, your body will use fat as fuel and will be able to sustain.

But you need to first train your body to do this. When I had started doing fasted runs or cycling, I used to hit a wall at about 30 minutes. After this, there will be absolutely no energy to continue. However, after about 10 minutes of perseverance, I used to feel a sudden surge in energy and after this I could continue. This sudden surge in energy is when the body switches over from glycogen as primary fuel to fat as fuel. I have been able to do 12km runs at moderate pace in a fasted state. The key here is moderate intensity.

When I was training for my half ironman triathlon in the past 4 months, I had to do high intensity workouts (like interval training and extended periods of workout at higher intensities) to improve performance, I could not sustain the fasted workouts. So, in the past four months, I had gone back to my regular carb based nutrition, and believe me I gained 2 kilos of weight inspite of 10 to 12 hours of training a week. Now I have started fasted workouts again. And I am struggling to strike a balance between teaching my body to burn fat as fuel and at the same time improve my performance.

For you, I would suggest this.

Cut your rides from 1:40 hours to 1:00 hour. Do these rides at moderate intensity. Do not worry about average speeds at this time. Just focus on moderate intensity and teach your body to burn fat as fuel. In the first few rides you will feel that wall at some point in the ride. Continue riding at even lower intensity till you start feeling that energy surge. Once your body starts getting used to this, gradually increase the distance and time.

Next is the fasting window. Start with a smaller fasting window. Extend your fasting by a couple of hours after your ride. Then slowly increase this fasting window. In two to three weeks, you will be doing 1:30 hour rides with extended fasting till 12:30 and at the same time be totally energetic at work. In a couple of months, you will actually start hearing comments from your colleagues that you are looking younger, more energetic etc. Believe me, this is from my own experience

And remember one thing. Intermittent fasting is not about cutting your intake, but managing it in a shorter window. Within the 8 hour eating window, have wholesome filling meals.

It is all about adjusting things based on how your body responds. Listen to your body and make changes.

[ninjatalli]

^^Wow - we seem to be making something so simple into so complex. I'm sure you guys aren't, but to a third person like me, the posts in this thread are going over my head

Honestly (IMO) In the end its understanding your body and managing the variables at your end.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Honestly (IMO) In the end its understanding your body and managing the variables at your end.

Exactly. Once you understand the basics, it is all about managing the variables. And managing the variables is what makes this whole thing complex. There are simply too many variables to manage

[srishiva]

I run or workout and burn more than 500 calories. This without eating/drinking anything early in the morning. It should burn fat !

I am doing the 5:2 fasting, the video I posted previously. I consume about 200 calories for breakfast and about same for dinner during fasting days. No sugar, nothing in between except green tea, water and black coffee. Doing the 16:8 is really difficult and you have to mind it everyday. 5:2 is not so and combine that with not much sugar on other days, should work well. Not too many variables I guess. I am still in 2nd week though