[viXit]

I joined the forum before I could drive.

Let me be the torchbearer who speaks for every sensible person from our demographic on this thread. The first thing I would say is that I understand where you're coming from. I cannot remember names in specific but I know that there are some young folks who jump the gun and have illogical/wrong/impractical contributions to the forum. But you should have thought twice before generalizing the statement. A blanket ban on the teens will not help anyone. The most inquisitive learners are from this age group.

Quality of the forum is of utmost importance, it is what keeps us alive. That is why we have a very strict moderation system in place. Let us allow this system to infract those who it deems necessary. And every other member has vested in her/him the power to report the posts. I have reported so many posts with such little discrepancies that one would imagine that the moderators would get irritated, yet their commitment to maintaining the quality shows, and all the reports have been acted upon. If you don't already, I believe you should do that too.

And coming to the point of contribution/understanding, I don't want to toot my own horn. But have had good understanding of how engines, clutches, gearboxes etc. work without driving a car. I've repaired and overhauled several AC systems, Electrical systems, Performed my own ICE installations/wiring in cars and serviced them too. Technical aspects can be learnt very well without driving. When they are substantiated with real-world experience they are gems, but even otherwise, you're great if you know your shit.

I'm sure Vishy76 hasn't had experience with broken down DSG boxes or fixing TDI engines by himself, but his passion and interest has led him to learn so much more. He has constantly been giving help and advice to fellow VAG owners from what he has learnt. Let me point you to his ownership review. We have some of the best reviewers in the industry and they have praised him for the review thread.

Varun_hexaguy's knowledge is unparalleled and I can bet he has owned more cars in the two years of his driving than many others who see age as more than just a number that has no meaning even considering the passion an individual holds.

Spend a minute in the Introduce yourself forum and you'll see how many people (adults) have been rejected membership not once, not twice, but many more times before they finally got in. Our forum is super STRICT on memberships. Yet we have youngsters on board, only means that they might lack the technical know-how, but have tremendous amounts of passion and inquisitiveness to learn and contribute. We can only help correct them and set them on the right path. They are easily manipulated, let's protect them and guide them and not attack them..

Nice avatar, turbo.

[VKumar]

Dear Gentlemen

As a proud member of this forum, I am actually disappointed looking at the discussion that is going on. Hence, instead of talking bout other stuff, I would like to put it in place that there is no place for discrimination on the forum, be it in terms of age, region, sex, religion, appearance, profile picture, broken English (I know I make a lot of mistakes, but I am slowly climbing the learning curve), or the cars you own.

Even if someone is incapable of owning a car as of today, or doesn't know driving, that member also has exactly as much right of claiming his membership value, as any of the moderators of this forum has. That's the beauty of Team-BHP, you can stand up and speak, but still not get Jack Ma'ed. Team-BHP members, right from Newbies to Support team, are mostly the people who are not here for salaries, they are here because they have the love for wheels. And it has taken a lot of pain in getting it, where it is today. So, discrimination in any manner is not a part of the ethos of this forum.

Kids Under 18:
They must be welcomed with full warmth, I am someone who was behind the wheel of a 2.2 tonne SUV before the legal age, and I very well know what kind of foolish mistakes I made back then. Today I give it to such forums where I read, and learned a lot of basics which nobody taught me (What you expect the chauffeur of an Assembly member to teach to the kid of sahab?).

So, these young enthusiasts deserve a warm welcome on the forum. Team-BHP stands for:

• T - Transformation in the way we look at our rides and other road users - by continuous self education
• E - Equality in all walks, BHPians' are equally an enthusiast, no matter if they are steering a bicycle or a Bentley
• A - Availability for others. Many of us don't have time to properly breath, but when a fellow member faces an issue, we take out our time for someone unknown. At times even call up our contacts, get things done, and feel happy too.
• M - Management, full credits about it to the support team, it's the M which assures that the TEA is enjoyable every moment!

It's important to welcome the young enthusiasts, because that's how you pass the baton. I had many misconceptions about the cars, was a typical magazine guy - many times outright denied the opinion of experienced men; but after I joined another forum, it helped me talk to the men, understand their view point, apply it - and that graduated me to the steeper section of the learning curve. Same applies to other young members, we need to help them come up with knowledge and understanding, also we need to help them become the best of the young drivers on our roads.

Members are saying that experience matters, and well, experience is what makes you an awesome teacher. Just share it, and make sure that younger guys need not get into a situation where they need to learn something hard way, about something that you can simply tell them in one statement.

Coming to objection of the profile picture of a member by another, that's absolutely against the values of this forum. As a BHPian, one shall be concerned only about the other guy being a BHPian - nothing else! Until it's something that violates the forum rules or becomes a reason for discomfort for someone else (Over which they can write to mods), it doesn't matter what the pic is. I have the 'biggrin' as my profile pic. I like the way he smiles and suits my personality too, I made one in MS paint. We reply in multiple threads of different tones, but having the '' as my profile picture doesn't mean that I am making fun of someone or I am indifferent to the agony of others - its a profile picture, that is in compliance with forum policies - there is no point of discussing it any more.

[S15]

I find whatever has transcribed in the past couple of pages extremely and immensely unfortunate, and I wonder why has there been no action taken on a member who is openly bullying another for their profile picture. The least he mods could do is remove the offending lines and leave a stern warning. Going solely by the suggestor's signature, we seem to have lost an active, contributing BHP-ian, which is unfortunate to say the least.

In addition to this, why cant this thread be hidden, in the sense that one can make suggestions, but not be discussed, like how the report post button works. This thread has become a hotbed of brawls and arguments, first their was a heated debate on whether to remove the thanks button or not, then there was am equally heated debate on whether the forum quality is falling or not, and now this membership age debate, and as such this thread would benefit from stricter moderation.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by turbo

I might get a lot of backlash for this comment, but can we please have less of kids who are in the age-group of 12-15 years of age?
I sometimes ponder what really do they bring to the forum?
16, I can understand. A 16 year-old can have applied for a learning license and can legally drive, and is in a position to assimilate the discussions on the forum, and is in a position to concentrate his or her thoughts in concise, precise manner. Not any younger than that.

Thank you for voicing your opinion. May I know your rationale behind this opinion, so that I may understand better where you're coming from?

Originally Posted by vishy76

I beg to differ. *SNIP*

Originally Posted by BeemerBug_06

Hey , come on man ! I thought TeamBHP is a place that encourages enthusiasts irrespective of their age. *SNIP*

Originally Posted by a4anurag

You can't paint everyone with the same brush.*SNIP*

I am genuinely not sure what made you post this and what is that you are trying to communicate.

Originally Posted by Sran

Perspective, experience, real world knowledge, on road experience, plus numerous other scientific things which is needed to understand automobile can not be understood or brought on by a teen. *SNIP*

Originally Posted by viXit

I joined the forum before I could drive. *SNIP*

Originally Posted by VKumar

Dear Gentlemen

As a proud member of this forum, I am actually disappointed looking at the discussion that is going on. *SNIP*

The members quoted above have addressed the issue and provided their opinions in a reasonable manner and I thank you all for this courtesy.

Originally Posted by S15

*SNIP*

The least he mods could do is remove the offending lines and leave a stern warning. *SNIP*

In addition to this, why cant this thread be hidden, *SNIP*

My opinion on this differs from yours, for reasons mentioned later in this post.

Originally Posted by sodapop

*SNIP*

Another thing I'm really curious about is your display picture which shows a kid's cartoon along with a pink turbo? Mind explaining us why a pic of a children's cartoon is on the forum?

*SNIP* but you are already on the brink of getting banned temporarily. Please introspect about the topic in question before coming and replying out loud henceforth. *SNIP*

This member quoted here has posted his opinion, but has added an ad hominem bit (attacking the person rather than the issue). In my opinion this has served to detract from this member's argument rather than enhance it.

Why I believe this discussion should stay as it is and not be edited or removed:

I belong to the school of "I may not like or agree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."

Silencing dissenting opinions or unpopular opinions may seem to be beneficial, but in my opinion it only serves to create and propagate echo chambers where people who have non-"approved" opinions will be castigated and will no longer be considered worthy. Case in point is the member who started this discussion - he has deactivated his account here and has been disincentivised from any future contributions he may have been able to make.

In any discussion forum or even in personal interactions there will always be different opinions. I believe that debating these without attacking the person would not only keep things civil, but would also serve as informational and educational for when in the future there may be others having the same or similar dissenting opinions.

Cheers

[binand]

Originally Posted by binand

This endless scrolling is a UX disaster.

This is such a pain! Can we please have this endless scrolling reverted, or at least made an optional feature (fine if it defaults to ON, as long as I can turn it OFF)?

Now I have a new issue. The top page navigation strip shows the current page I am in, but the bottom strip shows the page where I started from (which in this new flow makes sense but is a UX problem). So if I want to use the bottom strip then I have to keep a running counter of the page I'm in.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by S15

I find whatever has transcribed in the past couple of pages extremely and immensely unfortunate, and I wonder why has there been no action taken on a member who is openly bullying another for their profile picture. The least he mods could do is remove the offending lines and leave a stern warning. Going solely by the suggestor's signature, we seem to have lost an active, contributing BHP-ian, which is unfortunate to say the least.

+1 Thank you for speaking up.

In addition to this, why cant this thread be hidden, in the sense that one can make suggestions, but not be discussed,

A valid thought. My take is like @tilt, let it stay.

Originally Posted by tilt

This member quoted here has posted his opinion, but has added an ad hominem bit (attacking the person rather than the issue). In my opinion this has served to detract from this member's argument rather than enhance it.

Unfortunately we observe this snarky bullying behaviour often enough when posts don't agree with a passionately held point of view. And then we hide behind the anonymity of 'handles' to fire a broadside. Social media is a great asset - it gives every citizen the ability of broadcasting his opinion to a significant audience. Sadly it is done, often, anonymously, giving us the laxity of doing so with less sense of care. I wonder if all members, theoretically speaking, had to put their real names and photos how different would the dialogue be.

Why I believe this discussion should stay as it is and not be edited or removed:

I belong to the school of "I may not like or agree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."

Silencing dissenting opinions or unpopular opinions may seem to be beneficial, but in my opinion it only serves to create and propagate echo chambers where people who have non-"approved" opinions will be castigated and will no longer be considered worthy. Case in point is the member who started this discussion - he has deactivated his account here and has been disincentivised from any future contributions he may have been able to make.

In any discussion forum or even in personal interactions there will always be different opinions. I believe that debating these without attacking the person would not only keep things civil, but would also serve as informational and educational for when in the future there may be others having the same or similar dissenting opinions.

Thank you for saying this on behalf of many many of us. Unfortunately we see intolerance on social media which is a reflection of what's going in in our wider society. I don't blame the very young. For many they have never seen any other style of written communication.

[Jeroen]

To add to the discussion on the (minimum) age for our membership.

I am all for letting young and enthusiastic people join. Have a look at this thread:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...nda-amaze.html (DIY: How I 3D-Printed my Honda Amaze)

How many of our esteemed members would have the knowledge and tenacity to figure out on how to design and (have) printed a 3D car model?

In general I think so called experience is highly, highly overrated. Because in practice many people confuse experience with age. People do not get smarter by just getting older. Factually the opposite is true. I never understand why some people are impressed by people just because they are old. I get suspicious of old people. (I for one, find myself continuously highly suspect) At some point in time they get stuck in their own “experience” akin to tunnel vision. That would include me too. Best way to defend yourself is to surround you with lots of young, enthusiastic, vibrant people.

I have changed political parties recently. I have left the political party of which I have been a member all my life. One of my major concern was that the whole of the party, from ordinary members right up to members of parliament and minister were all well over fifty! I joined a new political party (Volt) and at 62 I am one of the oldest members! Apart from the content, how this party works, meets, get things done is an absolute revelation to me and a real breath of fresh air.

I believe most important is enthusiasm, thoroughness and the ability to really dig into a topic. And that is facilitated by the environment you put a person into. So if you want to have enthusiastic petrol heads, you have to start them young, encourage them and provide access to forums such as these.

Jeroen

[VKumar]

Instead of putting it up on the thread associated, I would like to raise a concern over here, as this thread isn't visible to outsiders/non-members.

It is regarding the fresh Mercedes GL350 thread:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...rt-case-2.html (Mercedes GL350 Dispute | Stopped paying lease rentals | Car repossessed | Court case)

I would like to put ahead my opinion, based on a recent experience.

There are excerpts from the thread as follows:

Maybe this landed up in the wrong forum. It could be my unfamiliarity with Team-BHP.

Originally Posted by ChiragM

Thanks to Debu for sharing his experience with us.

<<<< I did not know that this would be posted on TeamBHP. I only saw it after it was posted by someone from the TeamBHP team and then was forced create an account to respond to some fo the incorrect opinion that was being built

<<< That is not correct. I never had any intention of joining TeamBHP, never had and only joined after a link of the post with my case documents was shared with me.

<<< Comments don't make any difference to my case nor to me. This post was made by someone else and I completely agree that this forum has introduced me to the dark side of anonymous forums which I have zero experience of.

When a member is stating that he was 'forced' to make an account on the forum, why isn't it unprecedented? There are genuine enthusiasts who actually keep on trying for long, once I read an intro from a member who took more than 20 attempts to get a membership. IMO, such membership grants do hurt the sentiment of members, particularly when someone is coming up and claiming:
1) I am in wrong forum
2) I was forced to create an account
3) The item was posted by 'someone' on Team-BHP

Rule No. 6: "No personal attacks on any member will be entertained. This includes any direct / indirect attempt at trolling. All members are part of the Team-BHP Family and any discriminating or derogatory comment will be dealt with severely."

There is always a difference between what one says and what we interpret. I have been trying to interpret from every angle, but I still see these words as an umbrella attack on the forum itself. If people won't talk in my favor, that doesn't give me a right to put them all under an umbrella of being a "wrong forum" Does it?

Maybe this landed up in the wrong forum. It could be my unfamiliarity with Team-BHP.

When a member himself is stating that neither he approached the forum, nor is he interested in a membership, in fact was forced to take it. I see this as a clear discrimination against every single person who hasn't been given a membership itself, or an existing member, irrespective of his/her position or vintage, who got banned or infracted because the/she posted a one liner, or made a few typos, or just ended up hitting below the belt once. These people came here by filling the membership form, and a few of them have done this multiple times.

Today, I was asked by a friend who has tried multiple times for a membership that "I filled the form but didn't get the membership. Is it so that if I own an expensive car, then I will be automatically termed an auto enthusiast and eligible prospect?"

I have put ahead one example, there must be many out there who are unknown to us, who may have got a similar set of thoughts.

[rpmmachine]

I want to request one feature. Please allow the Guests to reply on any Thread after verification of email. You can Limit the replies to Once a day means Guests can reply on one Thread only in any 24 hours which will be hidden until it is authorized by Administrators. Or you can Limit it further to One Reply to any thread in 7 days period. This way so many people who want to share something or ask something serious but were not lucky to get the TBHP membership will get a chance.

Some kind of settings can be used which will Auto reject the guest reply if a guest is posting more than once in the last 7 days period to ease the burdens on MOD's/Admins.

Mod's: I have searched the thread but no same kind of suggestion was found. If someone has already suggested this Please erase my reply.

[Mortis]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but here goes. 7/10 Ads that I see on TBhp are of the dying sick children scam type. I'm not sure if it's possible to identify and stop that Ad vendor in particular ?
It's definitely not due to some Ad optimisation thing because I can say for 100% certain I have no interest in dead or dying or sick children or any kind of children so no Google searches or oral discussions of the topic with others that could have been overheard.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Mortis

7/10 Ads that I see on TBhp are of the dying sick children scam type. I'm not sure if it's possible to identify and stop that Ad vendor in particular ?

It's definitely not due to some Ad optimisation thing because I can say for 100% certain I have no interest in dead or dying or sick children or any kind of children so no Google searches or oral discussions of the topic with others that could have been overheard.

I think you are talking of Ketto's ads? From what I understand, they are very aggressive in digital marketing and don't particularly care for improved targeting for better ROI; instead they choose to optimise for higher reach in shortest time and quicker conversions.

But makes me wonder, if you are as disinterested in the matter as you say, then why do these ads specifically disturb you?

If a publisher stopped accepting ads from advertisers that any of their readers had issues with, then they soon wouldn't have any ads to show. Instead, today there are various tools available for readers to make their preference for ads clear; they are expected to use such tools.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by binand

But makes me wonder, if you are as disinterested in the matter as you say, then why do these ads specifically disturb you?

If a publisher stopped accepting ads from advertisers that any of their readers had issues with, then they soon wouldn't have any ads to show. Instead, today there are various tools available for readers to make their preference for ads clear; they are expected to use such tools.

Please share these tools. That will be helpful to many, including me, as everyone isn't as IT savvy as may be assumed. Not sure why the original post by @Mortis deserves this school marmish lecturing response.

[landcruiser123]

@Mods: Can you please make the endless scrolling feature optional? I'd like to check suggested threads. Interested folks can choose to have endless scrolling. Thanks

Regarding having junior members, we should allow as many as possible. I'd say they should be faced with an age-appropriate evaluation of their answers. Better to have teenagers spend time on Team-BHP than on other social media and other nonsense teenagers usually do on the internet.

The only exception to the age limit might be to comply with local laws and PG13 restrictions since we have threads having images/videos of accidents.

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by binand

...

But makes me wonder, if you are as disinterested in the matter as you say, then why do these ads specifically disturb you?

If a publisher stopped accepting ads from advertisers that any of their readers had issues with, then they soon wouldn't have any ads to show. Instead, today there are various tools available for readers to make their preference for ads clear; they are expected to use such tools.

These ads don't 'disturb' me in any way, I've seen worse. The reason I dislike them is because they are of the usual sick person scam variety and it might lead to a fellow member losing money by donating and I guess they may also be disturbed by the images.
I can only partially agree your argument on advertisements on the forum. I'm pretty sure the categories for the Ads can be chosen. It's similar to how pornographic themes are avoided. Images of people suffering being used for profit are in a parallel category. Advertisements from car manufacturers are avoided to maintain impartiality but we can definitely accept ads for car related accessories and services or better yet just general category and online shopping types would also be fine I guess. Basically neutral ads.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Mortis

These ads don't 'disturb' me in any way, I've seen worse. The reason I dislike them is because they are of the usual sick person scam variety and it might lead to a fellow member losing money by donating and I guess they may also be disturbed by the images.

I suppose if any other member is disturbed by these images they should be competent enough to raise the point themselves, no? Anyway, you still haven't mentioned who the advertiser is, and I'm going by ketto.org. They are, as I understand it, a decent set of people (some people in my alumni group are involved with them, and based on what these people say I am convinced they are not a scam operation). I myself have donated to a few of their causes both with and without 80G benefits (disclaimer: but uninfluenced by their advertising; all on word-of-mouth).

Originally Posted by Mortis

I can only partially agree your argument on advertisements on the forum. I'm pretty sure the categories for the Ads can be chosen.

I did not mean it is technically unfeasible. Just that the site owner can't remove categories of advertisements based on each user's preference. You have a problem with donation-soliciting ads. Someone else will complain about fairness creams/beauty enhancement products. A third would want online gaming ads shunned. And so on. If the site owner took off these categories then soon they'll be left with nothing.

And the other aspect is that the ad network is serving the same ad on thousands of different publishers. How many websites will you request, to turn off donation ads?

If you think an ad needs to be taken off (misrepresentation etc.), I suppose you could raise a complaint with the ASCI. They have been somewhat proactive on dealing with misleading digital ads of late.

Originally Posted by Mortis

It's similar to how pornographic themes are avoided.

Pornography (and a bunch of other categories like gambling, alcohol, medication etc.) are treated differently by the ad networks themselves. Often they don't accept these ads, and even when they do they have severe restrictions on where such ads are displayed.