[PatienceWins]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

Jenny, not trying to defend the thread or offend you, but the fact is you should be equally sad and shocked looking at the way our society works, not just this thread. Anybody who wants to change it, whether it's the man or the woman in the pair, faces exactly the same issues mentioned in this thread.

If you happen to step in a woman's meet (normally they don't happen online), you will again be shocked at how they treat others.

What is shocking? I do not see anything sad and shocking here. Just few of us have cribbed obout restrictions after marriage. The relationships in our society are much stronger and last for a life time. I agree that women are not treated well in many rural parts of our country, but you need to understand that we are a huge, diverse population where 40% of the population lives under poverty line.

I get shocked only when I look at western socities. You would be surprised to see the statistics of divorce, rape and violence against women in western countries, where the average person is as literate as we are. US tops them all.
I just hope that our society does not follow western culture.

Just a sample.
Statistics - Rape Crisis Information Pathfinder

I am sorry if I have hurt anyone. But I cannot keep quiet when I see the same attitude from Indians who return after a short stint at onsite and NRIs.

[godog]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

The relationships in our society are much stronger and last for a life time.

Only a few exceptional relationships last for a lifetime. The majority just linger because it is socially impossible for women to dare to lead independent lives (What? No Hussbaand? arre babaa...)

I agree that women are not treated well in many rural parts of our country, but you need to understand that we are a huge, diverse population where 40% of the population lives under poverty line.

I do not want to understand the relationship between financial status and basic pursuit of sympathy. How does being poor stand as an excuse for mistreatment of anyone, women/men/old dudes/punk rockstars, ANYONE!

I get shocked only when I look at western socities. You would be surprised to see the statistics of divorce, rape and violence against women in western countries, where the average person is as literate as we are. US tops them all.
I just hope that our society does not follow western culture.

If only all cases of murder rape and robberies were registered in India, would you get a clear picture. With half the mobsters and mass-murderers in parliament and/or in control of virtually the entire political establishment, this is going to take a while to start happening.

I am sorry if I have hurt anyone. But I cannot keep quiet when I see the same attitude from Indians who return after a short stint at onsite and NRIs.

On the contrary, most people with aspirations of stints abroad are waaay better cultured and behaved than "bhaiyyas" on the street. I don't intend to hurt any bhaiyyas, I hope the pointer is clear.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

The relationships in our society are much stronger and last for a life time.

Which relationships? Family, parents, brothers, friends? What makes you think that Indian relationships last longer? Do they really?

As far as marriage is concerned, we're struggling weakly with a divorce rate that is increasing in leaps and bounds with every passing year.
Not because we're influenced by the divorce-friendly "west" - but because modern Indian society has choices.
The only difference is that young Indian people are making those choices for themselves.


You take a girl who has lived all her life as a child with her parents.

One day the parents choose a man and tell their daughter "Go be a woman. There's your man. Now go run the house."

From being a darling daughter one day, she turns into the life partner of a man who she never knew a few months ago.

What if he is just plain disrespectful? What if his breath stinks? What if his parents are annoying? What if he's a control freak or a complete loser?

What makes you think that a modern Indian woman would accept that?

20 years ago, perhaps a woman in India would resign herself to living in a situation she didn't like, convincing herself that in time she would 'learn to love" - probably why our grandparents never really got divorced.
But most of our grandmothers were not educated, modern women with equal opportunities in this world.

Today, we educate our daughters in the same way we educate our sons. (well, many do) and present them with equal opportunities - Doctors, MBA, Pilots, Corporate life and more.
And yet we hope to hold on to some vague definition of "Indian Values" where having a boyfriend is an unacceptable/uncomfortable situation, sex before marriage is best neither thought of nor discussed and the best "traditional" situation is to have the parents either choose, or approve your potential life-partner.

Either that needs to change, or we're going to overtake the rest of the world with our divorce rate someday.

Or we'll depend on our so-called society, where an entire bunch of people convince a woman that preserving her marriage and her family's face is far, far more important than insignificant things like her happiness and satisfaction.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I agree that women are not treated well in many rural parts of our country, but you need to understand that we are a huge, diverse population where 40% of the population lives under poverty line.
.

That's a sad statement. One doesn't need to be above the poverty line to treat a woman well.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I get shocked only when I look at western socities. You would be surprised to see the statistics of divorce, rape and violence against women in western countries, where the average person is as literate as we are. US tops them all.

You would be surprised to see how much rape and domestic violence occurs in everyday homes in India. I find it shameful that women would accept it with that "Pati Parmeshwar" business.

It's just a BIG deal in the US when a man gets drunk and beats his wife.

In many homes in India, it is merely a daily, very private affair.

As far as rape, child abuse and other horrendous atrocities, Indians have been doing that well before they ever knew there was a world outside of India.


In the so-called "west" the police come knocking at your door questioning the parents if a child gets to school with a visible bruise.
In India, the police recommend taking a 6 year old raped girl-child home quietly, instead of making a "scene" by reporting it officially and "ruining her life forever"

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I just hope that our society does not follow western culture.

When someone says that I find it weird. Are there just 2 cultures in the world? Indian and Western?

I believe that there is good in every culture and lots of dogmas too. By confining yourself to what you know and refusing to learn anything from anyone else, you make yourself a little blind frog in a little closed well. Secure in what you know, with no desire to learn anything new.

There is much to be learned from Indian culture and the world is picking out the best parts and following it. We see it everywhere, people choosing to enjoy Indian music, movies, religion, art, health and fitness, philosophy and more. They pick out all the best parts and appreciate them.

Instead of preening in self-assumed superiority and a smug confidence in our culture, we too should pick out the best parts of the culture of various countries around the world.

It's the only way to grow well as a modern nation, part of a modern world.

But I cannot keep quiet when I see the same attitude from Indians who return after a short stint at onsite and NRIs.

Once could live in his own home till his dying day, accepting certain shortcomings simply the way they are. Because that is all he has known.

You only know what's truly wrong with your own home when you are invited to someone elses. That's when you go back home and change a few things, incorporating small changes, learnt from anothers home into your own.
By doing this, you don't change your home or who you are, you merely use that short experience make your home a better place to live in.

I believe no man has really matured completely till he has seen a culture, country, society and people that are not his own.

These are just my thoughts. I do not mean to lecture anyone (especially Patience Wins) nor do I claim anything other than a broad generalization. These views are my own and I am always open to correction.

I mean absolutely no offence to anyone.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

What is shocking? I do not see anything sad and shocking here.

yup, I was responding to the-one. I totally understand why it would not shock you.

I get shocked only when I look at western socities. You would be surprised to see the statistics of divorce, rape and violence against women in western countries, where the average person is as literate as we are. US tops them all.

yup, similar effect. some things shock you, some things shock them. Sam explained it very well.

I am sorry if I have hurt anyone. But I cannot keep quiet when I see the same attitude from Indians who return after a short stint at onsite and NRIs.

Yeah we get that often. We try. Can't fix everything at once. But we try.

[Ravveendrra]

+1 to Sam's post.

In addition, I would request all those touting the 'divorce rate' to kindly consider the 'dysfunctional marriage rate' as well before passing judgement.

Cheers,

[SilentEngine]

Interesting thread!

I don't have an answer to the original post as I am not married, but these are my observations. Some of them are general, may not necessarily apply to the members of this forum.

In majority of Indian marriages, the marriage is forced upon, because of variety of reasons, pressure from family, society (you are getting old, you won't get a bride/groom if you don't get married now etc.)
The way Indian society works is, once a man is settled in a job, the next logical step is to get married. No one bothers if he is mentally ready for marriage or not. For a girl, marriage is considered as the only goal of her life. Her career, interests all come later.

Second point I want to make is the disparity in the way boys and girls are brought up in Indian society. When it comes to marriage, generally the men are under prepared to take the additional responsibilty that comes with marriage. By responsibilty, I don't mean the financial aspect of it, what I am pointing out is the mental/emotional responsibility. This is where most of the problems originate from. Men expect their wives to suddenly understand them without making any extra effort on their part to work on the relationship. Most of the families in India experience this daily where there is a clear mental disconnect between the man and his wife. But obviously divorce is not an option in the 'traditional' society.

So what I think is, one should get married only if he/she is mentally ready for it and he/she believes in making it work.

[straightdrive]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

......The relationships in our society are much stronger and last for a life time. I agree that women are not treated well in many rural parts of our country, but you need to understand that we are a huge, diverse population where 40% of the population lives under poverty line............You would be surprised to see the statistics of divorce, rape and violence against women in western countries, where the average person is as literate as we are. .

Many relationships in our society last for a lifetime only because the women believe they have no choice other than to try and make it last.

Poverty is not a good excuse for treating women badly - I have met poor people with more character and a sense of dignity than many well off ones. The incidence of rape and violence against women here is as much as anywhere else; it just doesn't always get publicised.

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

......And yet we hope to hold on to some vague definition of "Indian Values" where having a boyfriend is an unacceptable/uncomfortable situation, sex before marriage is best neither thought of nor discussed ....

That unfortunately is going to be the caae for a few years to come - the effect of many years of these "Indian values" will take many years to get rid of.

Originally Posted by godog

Only a few exceptional relationships last for a lifetime. The majority just linger because it is socially impossible for women to dare to lead independent lives...

I couldn't agree more!

[PatienceWins]

A marriage should happen only with the consent of woman, followed by approval of parents. We are what we are today because of the the values instilled in us by our parents and the hardship they have undergone in our proper upbringing. I believe they are the best people to judge whether a relationship would work for us. I agree with Sam that a womans consent is not given due importance in many marriages that happen in our society. At the same time I do not agree that having a series of intimate relationships before marriage is the correct way to select the right relationship.

A women should get divorced if there are serious issues with the marriage which are irreparable. It is the responsibility of the family and society to support the woman when she goes through the ordeal. Every person has positives and negatives - when two people live together there would be trivial issues, as discussed in this thread (which need to be worked on by the husband and the wife together).

I agree that divorce rate is increasing at a higher rate in our society. The rate of increase is alarming in IT industry. The main issue I see - A relationship calls for more responsibility and needs time and effort by both parties. As others have pointed out, the couples usually get into a relationship even if they are not ready without knowing what is required from marriage. They are unable to cope up with the demands of marriage together with work pressure, strict deadlines and long hours at office. The situation becomes more demanding once they have a child. Ego adds fuel to fire when couples find it difficult to share responsibility. Most of them prefer to go for divorce than taking the difficult option of working on the marriage. I strongly believe that the rate of divorce is less in our society compared to western society because of the importance our society gives to marriage. I believe that a woman has equal right to education and opportunities as man. I am happy to see woman standing on their own and contributing to our development. But I also believe that the so called modern culture actually degrades woman than uplifting them.

It pains to see the young children suffering once the parents divorce. Whenever I hear about a case of divorce, the first question I ask is whether they have any children. I think it is better if people can come to the conclusion before they have children.

When I referred that 40% of Indians live below povery line, I was not just referring to the income level. I understand that a literate and cultured guy living in urban area can also go to that level by burning his hand in the stock market. I was referring to the social fabric of the rural class, where school is unheard of in many areas. They just pass on the false beliefs and traditions from one generation to another. I agree that it does not hold much relevance in this thread - but usually people miss this aspect when they generalise India. Not everyone is as fortunate as we are to get school education and to live in a cultured society.

Sorry for diverting the discussion in this thread. I am out of this thread.

@SilentEngine: Your second point is very important for the marriage to succeed. Good to see that you are well prepared.

[Sam Kapasi]

I know that you are out of this thread, but this is still a healthy debate and I cannot remain silent.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I believe they (parents) are the best people to judge whether a relationship would work for us.

This would be true, if we were more like our parents.

But we're not. Our education, workplaces and general society is growing and progressing faster and faster.
Most parents have great trouble understanding what their kids are doing, in life and for a living. The generation gap has never been greater than it has been today.
In this age of MTV, Playstation, Manga Forums, call centers and Hannah Montana - do you honestly believe that it is not the person, but his parents who can decide if a relationship will work or not?

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

At the same time I do not agree that having a series of intimate relationships before marriage is the correct way to select the right relationship.

I'm not sure what your definition of intimate is. I for one, cannot understand why anyone would take a chance with his life and hope that the partner he gets is the right one. If intimate translates as "up close and personal" I hope you can get to that stage before you marry.

If intimate translates as "sexual", this is a personal choice and is best left at that.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I agree that divorce rate is increasing at a higher rate in our society. The rate of increase is alarming in IT industry.

I believe that a woman has equal right to education and opportunities as man. I am happy to see woman standing on their own and contributing to our development. But I also believe that the so called modern culture actually degrades woman than uplifting them.

The rate of increase is alarming in the IT industry? What kind of a statement is that?
The rate of divorce is simply increasing because the number of educated women with equal opportunities is increasing.

Marriage used to be a transfer of support.

A girl's father gave her home, money, food and support. The job was merely transferred to a new man by her parents who she then called her husband.
To her Dad she gave loyalty and obedience, to her husband she gave loyalty, obedience, sex, children and more. What else could she do, where else could she go?
Today a marriage is a partnership of choice. A decent educated woman, capable of standing her own in this harsh world doesn't need shelter, she needs a relationship.
If she cannot have that, she will move on. If you see this as degradation, it is sad.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

It pains to see the young children suffering once the parents divorce.

It also pains to see young children grow up in a squabbling unhappy home with a warped definition of marriage, simply because their parents insist on staying together and making each other and the kids miserable.
There's 2 sides of every coin.

I think it is better if people can come to the conclusion before they have children.

I agree 100%. It is better.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

When I referred that 40% of Indians live below povery line, I was not just referring to the income level.

I was referring to the social fabric of the rural class, where school is unheard of in many areas. They just pass on the false beliefs and traditions from one generation to another. I agree that it does not hold much relevance in this thread - but usually people miss this aspect when they generalise India. Not everyone is as fortunate as we are to get school education and to live in a cultured society.

I always assumed the poverty line was income based.

If you are referring to education, I did not learn to respect a woman in school. It is never taught at school or college. It is a simple question of doing what you see.
A man (regardless of income or education) will respect his wife if he saw his father respect his mother as a child.

Our "Indian" tradition - prior to schooling or systematic education in India, has been to respect and often worship a woman. In religion and history and philosophy.

[PatienceWins]

I know that you are out of this thread, but this is still a healthy debate and I cannot remain silent.

We are having a healthy discussion. I agree that we should continue it.

This would be true, if we were more like our parents.

But we're not. Our education, workplaces and general society is growing and progressing faster and faster.
Most parents have great trouble understanding what their kids are doing, in life and for a living. The generation gap has never been greater than it has been today.
In this age of MTV, Playstation, Manga Forums, call centers and Hannah Montana - do you honestly believe that it is not the person, but his parents who can decide if a relationship will work or not?

I get your point. This issue happens when there is a difference in values and beliefs of parents and children.

Generation gap does not matter when there are common values and beliefs. I do not have to start following MTV or FTV just because a large population of current generation likes it. That is what I meant by the "so called modern culture".

I do not see any issue as long as my parents and I follow the same religion. But if my parents want me to marry a girl whose beliefs and values are different than mine, I have every right to disobey them.

I'm not sure what your definition of intimate is. I for one, cannot understand why anyone would take a chance with his life and hope that the partner he gets is the right one. If intimate translates as "up close and personal" I hope you can get to that stage before you marry.

If intimate translates as "sexual", this is a personal choice and is best left at that.

I would not like to marry a girl who had a "up close and personal" or "sexual" relationship before marriage. I have seen many men who are very enthusiastic about these relationships. But they would not like to marry a girl who has gone through the same and they would not approve the same for their sisters. I would prefer to talk to the girl and understand her. In my family, I hold the record for talking to many girls before deciding on the one.

I also think that it is better if we marry someone we knew for a long time. May be that is what Sam meant by "up close and personal" relationship.

The rate of increase is alarming in the IT industry? What kind of a statement is that?
The rate of divorce is simply increasing because the number of educated women with equal opportunities is increasing.

It is not as simple as equal opportunities giving freedom to woman. I am happy that modern women are educated, have a career and are not fully dependant on men. But most of the relationships in IT are getting to the point of divorce because couples do not work on the relationship. They prefer to take the easy way out. My understanding is based on divorces in companies where I have worked and also from friends who work in call centres, where young people get into marriage without knowing the expectations.

Marriage used to be a transfer of support.

A girl's father gave her home, money, food and support. The job was merely transferred to a new man by her parents who she then called her husband.
To her Dad she gave loyalty and obedience, to her husband she gave loyalty, obedience, sex, children and more. What else could she do, where else could she go?
Today a marriage is a partnership of choice. A decent educated woman, capable of standing her own in this harsh world doesn't need shelter, she needs a relationship.
If she cannot have that, she will move on. If you see this as degradation, it is sad.

You have got me wrong. What I meant by degradation of women is the way women is portrayed in the so called modern culture. Beauty pageants for cosmetic industry, advertisements with women in indecent clothing (what has a car ad got to do with a pretty woman in half clothes?), airhostress in revealing clothes and the way the current generation is blindly following the MTV or FTV. You may label me as a traditional guy. But I consider everyone as my sisters and brothers and it pains me when I see something which I do not consider good for my brothers and sisters. It is responsibility of men as well as women to guard their modesty.

It also pains to see young children grow up in a squabbling unhappy home with a warped definition of marriage, simply because their parents insist on staying together and making each other and the kids miserable.
There's 2 sides of every coin.

I agree. It is always better when they take the decision before having children. The child suffers either way.

I always assumed the poverty line was income based.

If you are referring to education, I did not learn to respect a woman in school. It is never taught at school or college. It is a simple question of doing what you see.
A man (regardless of income or education) will respect his wife if he saw his father respect his mother as a child.

Our "Indian" tradition - prior to schooling or systematic education in India, has been to respect and often worship a woman. In religion and history and philosophy.

Yes, poverty line is income based. The vast majority who belongs there are from rural India. I should have used rural india instead of referring to povery line.

Indian tradition is diverse and complex. There are rural societies where women are treated like slaves, child marriage is common and there are stupid traditions like Sati. We are fortunate to be born in a different part with a different outlook, access to education and opportunities.

History is not good as it is depicted in our text books. In ancient times, backward caste people were killed in Kerala if they come in sight of a forward caste people by mistake.

What I see on international news channels when I travel abroad is the rural face of india. That is bad!!

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I would not like to marry a girl who had a "up close and personal" or "sexual" relationship before marriage. I have seen many men who are very enthusiastic about these relationships. But they would not like to marry a girl who has gone through the same and they would not approve the same for their sisters. I would prefer to talk to the girl and understand her. In my family, I hold the record for talking to many girls before deciding on the one.

I fail to understand why you see this as a bad thing, unless your of the mind that you would want to be her "first" or that u dont want to catch any of the myriad STD's out there. Wouldnt you rather have a woman who is sexually experienced and comfortable with her body and who she is, rather than some girl who has been clammed up her entire life and has to perform for the first time the first night of her marriage? It would be a horrible expierence for both of you. Are you afraid that she may be more sexually experienced than you?

You also mentioned that what we are today is because of our parents. If you look at indian society in the metros or even the outlying areas today, it isnt that great :(. With the rampant rise in rowdism, corruption, crime, sexual abuse, disrespect for others and ones ownself; i dont see much of anything good. I hope this isnt what your parents taught you, cause mine certainly didnt. I dont think its up to our parents to choose who we are gonna spend the rest of our lives with, we are grown ups for petes sake and can make our own decisions.

You say women and men should guard their modesty. Who decides what is modest? do you? do i decide that? U know in some cultures wearing barely nothing at all is considered modest. I hate to break it to you buddy but sex and sleaze sells, always has, always will. Why do you think they put pretty girls in advertisements; its been scientifically proven that both men and women are attracted to that. In effect you are saying everyone should be "modest". That in effect impinges on everyone's freedom, and i for one dont appreciate that. Let women decide whether or not to cover up, thats not up to you and me.

[PatienceWins]

I fail to understand why you see this as a bad thing, unless your of the mind that you would want to be her "first" or that u dont want to catch any of the myriad STD's out there. Wouldnt you rather have a woman who is sexually experienced and comfortable with her body and who she is, rather than some girl who has been clammed up her entire life and has to perform for the first time the first night of her marriage? It would be a horrible expierence for both of you. Are you afraid that she may be more sexually experienced than you?

You have equated sex to playing tennis with a partner. Sex is about both body and mind, it increases the intimacy between the partners. Marriage is all about loving each other and be comfortable with each other. The love between the couples keep increasing with every passing day. I do not agree with your philosophy of sleeping around town and get comfortable on the marriage day.

You also mentioned that what we are today is because of our parents. If you look at indian society in the metros or even the outlying areas today, it isnt that great :(. With the rampant rise in rowdism, corruption, crime, sexual abuse, disrespect for others and ones ownself; i dont see much of anything good. I hope this isnt what your parents taught you, cause mine certainly didnt.

The entire society is not made of only both of us. A persons upbringing will have a major effect on what the person would become. A society is nothing but a group of people. Let us make a difference in whatever way we can.

I dont think its up to our parents to choose who we are gonna spend the rest of our lives with, we are grown ups for petes sake and can make our own decisions.

I did not say that we do not have any right for choice. I only said that our parents have every right to approve our choice.

You say women and men should guard their modesty. Who decides what is modest? do you? do i decide that? U know in some cultures wearing barely nothing at all is considered modest.

I agree that all of us are different. I am a religious person and I strive to live my life as per Quran. I agree with Sam that we have to appreciate what is good in other cultures - I find European people to be more polite than Indians. At the same time I would not follow what I think is bad in other cultures. You have the choice to live life as you wish and I have mine.

I do not wish to go into details of my religion as religious discussions are not allowed in Team-BHP. I will be happy to talk to you in person.

I hate to break it to you buddy but sex and sleaze sells, always has, always will. Why do you think they put pretty girls in advertisements; its been scientifically proven that both men and women are attracted to that. In effect you are saying everyone should be "modest". That in effect impinges on everyone's freedom, and i for one dont appreciate that. Let women decide whether or not to cover up, thats not up to you and me.

I did not make any decisions here for womankind. Brother, I just shared what I think is right. Whatever sells is not good for our well-being. There is more to life than just revenue and profit.

[tsk1979]

Traditionally Indian marriages had no divorces. The reason was not good family values. The real reason was that cattle don't divorce. A farmer may beat his cow and illtreat her., but the cow may give lower quality milk, but won't divorce.
That was the status of women in Indian culture. Traditionally Indian scriptures have deemed that women can be traded, humiliated and are of lower status than men. Their only job is to be a glorified maid in the house.
Even right to property came very late and at first there was a lot of hue and cry about giving women right to property.
Such things existed in west also till the 1920s. and if you dig out historical records. before WWII, divorce etc., was rare.
Only after women became treated at par with humans, things like divorce etc., started happening.

So now in India also with education, instead of cattle, women are being treated as human beings, divorce and disagreements are also increasing.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

You have equated sex to playing tennis with a partner. Sex is about both body and mind, it increases the intimacy between the partners. Marriage is all about loving each other and be comfortable with each other. The love between the couples keep increasing with every passing day. I do not agree with your philosophy of sleeping around town and get comfortable on the marriage day.




The entire society is not made of only both of us. A persons upbringing will have a major effect on what the person would become. A society is nothing but a group of people. Let us make a difference in whatever way we can.



I did not say that we do not have any right for choice. I only said that our parents have every right to approve our choice.




I agree that all of us are different. I am a religious person and I strive to live my life as per Quran. I agree with Sam that we have to appreciate what is good in other cultures - I find European people to be more polite than Indians. At the same time I would not follow what I think is bad in other cultures. You have the choice to live life as you wish and I have mine.

I do not wish to go into details of my religion as religious discussions are not allowed in Team-BHP. I will be happy to talk to you in person.




I did not make any decisions here for womankind. Brother, I just shared what I think is right. Whatever sells is not good for our well-being. There is more to life than just revenue and profit.

ok..well first off i didnt know that you were religious and you followed the Koran. That changes the whole discussion a lot and now i can understand your point of view. Im not equating sex to playing tennis, but its clear that both you and I have totally differing views on the subject. I personally dont believe that parents have the right to approve our choice of partner because in the end its we that have to live with the decision, not them. Because of your religious upbringing, i can see why you will disagree. I couldnt marry someone that i barely knew, or that was forced upon me. I'd rather live with a person, date a person, for at least 6 months to a year and then decide if im ready to spend the rest of my life (hopefully) with that person.

I know life is more than just revenue and profit, but those are the facts. You may not like it, but thats what the reality is. What you think is bad (sexy, racy ads, skimply dressed flight attendants, etc), i really couldnt care either way and honestly i dont think its really that bad, unless it can be proven categorically that it is having a bad effect on society. You say that society is not made up of you or me and that we all have to make a difference. But i could say that at this point in time, in my view, in india, it doesnt really matter if i make a difference because the vast majority wont care and will go on repeating their mistakes. What good does it do?? Society is beyond help and is pretty much hopeless :(.

[Gill]

Quite a thread, I read it three times over.

Why is divorce taken by some as a bad indicator?I take it as a positive(to an extent).Good to be separated, rather then dragging a relation,making life unpleasant for whole family.
Woman of our times are availing her right:- Freedom!

BTW I am getting married by year end!:-)