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17th May 2009, 21:04 | #16 |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mumbai, India
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| For the record: I do not find it very cultured to compare sexual experiences with "sleeping around town". Just because you are not married to someone does not mean you are not involved in mind, spirit and body. To assume that sex before marriage is just casual and a bad habit is presumptuous and ignorant. Coming back to the discussion: I don't see how meeting girls (means, having tea with a girl and her family that your parents present to you) can prepare you for partnership. And how will it give you some experience in what a relationship really means and is about? I don't see any sense in this but how would I know, I am just a "westerner" lol. I assume that the girl you would have tea with would be content to spend the rest of her life with you even if she can't stand you and I would assume that you would be perfectly okay with a partner who has to stay with you - not because she loves you, not because she wants to, but because society demands her to. As well as you! And this way of living will it then be passed on to your children who will be "happy" to take over this kind of living since the parents obviously know best?! No disrespect to anyone, I myself come from a society where divorce was impossible (in society's eyes) until about 40 years ago. I heard the elders in my society talk a lot about those times and how unhappy their parents or grandparents often were - with no escape. And I agree with Gill, divorce does not have to be negative. It can be a welcome relief to a negative life, especially when children are involved. This of course, does not mean that you run away from marriage at the first hint of problems, don't get me wrong, I am not advocating divorce. Divorce is not a fun concept but the last resort. Rules and situations change as time passes by. Society adapts, individuals learn from the mistakes of the past and the world progresses. Sam once mentioned to me that only 3 generations ago it was quite common for women in India to marry at 13 or 14. Would you want this for your daughters today? Last edited by TheOne® : 17th May 2009 at 21:14. |
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17th May 2009, 22:39 | #17 | |||
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
In cases where two people have been dating each other before marriage, after marriage it sometimes all falls apart because the time spent as lovers turns out insufficient to get to know the real person. And often, arranged marriages work because expectations are better defined and more leeway is given to each other since both are new in the relationship. So you see, either ways, it can go any which way. Quote:
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By the way, all this is totally way off the original intent of this thread. Cheers Amitoj | |||
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17th May 2009, 23:03 | #18 | |
Team-BHP Support | Quote:
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17th May 2009, 23:38 | #19 | |
Team-BHP Support | Quote:
And I am sure your community is a minority | |
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18th May 2009, 00:21 | #20 |
Team-BHP Support | Many communities along the southern coastal belt along Karnataka and Kerala are Matriarchal. |
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18th May 2009, 01:17 | #21 | ||||
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
Do not think that we would not be able to make any difference. It matters more when goodness is in scarcity. If you look at history you would find great personalities who made a lot of difference to mankind. Even if we cannot go to that level we can make a small difference by caring for our family and society. Quote:
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I talked to all the girls in private before selecting the right one. You would be surprised to know that even that is not acceptable in many families. If a girl agrees to marry someone against her wish, she is actually doing harm to herself aswell as the other person. The religious scriptures give more importance to womens right than men. But people are not following it properly. I agree to Amitoj that things are changing for better in India. Sid, sorry for hijacking your thread. Last edited by PatienceWins : 18th May 2009 at 01:18. | ||||
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18th May 2009, 01:47 | #22 | |||
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mumbai, India
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There were some statements made on this thread that were based on a very broad assumption of a "western culture", one that nobody even took the time to understand before commenting on, never mind the fact that western culture is not just one culture for all the countries to the West of India. There are huge differences. I cannot criticize Indian culture. I cannot criticize what I have not understood completely. In fact, I am learning and absorbing every day. If I didn't feel the need to understand it I wouldn't be living in India. In my posts I am mainly referring to individuals' opinions and question their validity. Last edited by TheOne® : 18th May 2009 at 01:54. | |||
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18th May 2009, 01:58 | #23 | |||
Distinguished - BHPian | Quote:
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Let's get to the real reason for this thread. Bring on your travails, married guys. Let's read about them. Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 18th May 2009 at 02:11. | |||
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18th May 2009, 04:14 | #24 | ||||
BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
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Instead, I would love to get to know a person, live a couple of years atleast with her. That would give you enough time to see how you handle the tough times together, how you strive to keep the relationship alive, if the other person is strong enough to fight it out through the tough times, you get to know each others good/bad qualities, how you must learn to live with them. And once you know and have gone through some tough times together and have successfully managed to overcome the misunderstandings, once you know that you could fight odds like straying out of the relationship etc you know you have a larger chance of making it stick. Quote:
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But unfortunately, even in this todays scenario there are a majority of families who still have criteria like caste to determine who we get married to. When I fell in love with a girl, I didn't see if her dad was a multi billionaire or if she belonged to the royalty. I fell in love with her because of who she was, because of the way we felt when we were together. Don't understand why caste plays such an important role when it comes to marriage. Then you have parents resorting to emotional blackmail saying if you want to marry him you will have to either forget us or give us some poison. I mean, that is ridiculous. Two people happily in love, want to spend the rest of their lives together and here we have our elders opposing it on the basis of caste, creed etc. I don't understand the logic. All parents want their children to be happy, but when we choose who we are going to be happy with the very same parents who all their lives have strived and toiled to see us happy now are adament to snatch that one thing that would give us happiness to last an entire life? Many people might point fingers at me saying we are falling prey to westernization etc. But let me point out a fact. It is not that we do not respect our parents, our culture. I recently lost a loved one, just because her parents wanted her to marry someone within their own caste and would not budge no matter what. Then came a point where she was asked to choose between her parents and me. I mean what can she do? Betray her parents who have brought her up for 22yrs or betray the guy she was madly in love with for 3yrs and dreamt of spending the rest of her life with? With a fear that her parents would have to face a lot of criticism/embarrassment from their society and relatives, not wanting to betray those two people who have given birth to us and so lovingly brought us up, we both decided to part ways. When we can think so much about our parents, why is it so impossible for our parents to accept our decisions? Point I am trying to make is, we ought to learn to accept the merits from other cultures as well. And learn to eradicate the de-merits from our own culture. And I sincerely do hope atleast with the next generation this attitude changes. Another thing I would say we need to ape from western culture would be the use of protection. I have seen many people, both married and unmarried too shy/embarrassed of walking to a medic store and asking for a packet of condoms. Whatever said and done, its not worth the risk of an unwanted pregnancy or procuring sexually transmitted diseases. I think we ought to learn to shed our inhibitions for the better. @ Sam & Jenny : Honestly, not everyone are as lucky as you both. You both are an inspiration for us. I wish every child in this country would get broad minded parents. Last edited by mclaren1885 : 18th May 2009 at 04:16. | ||||
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18th May 2009, 04:41 | #25 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
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You need a lot more than a private meeting to understand whether she is The One for you. And I will be interested to know what thoughts the parents give before making the decision for the children. The reasons I have seen (in descending order) are, religion/caste/sub caste, locality, Dowry, and sometimes education/job. in fact sometimes higher education or job profile works as a negative point. The only reasons I have seen people following their parent's choice is to satisfy their (parents') ego of having the authority to make the decision. I myself had a suicide threat in my family if I ever thought of marrying outside my caste. Reason???????????? no idea. can't argue with them parents. | |
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18th May 2009, 11:48 | #26 | ||||
Distinguished - BHPian | Some fresh thoughts this morning since we're going on about this anyways, lol.
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I think the decision to "live" with someone is often more difficult than the decision to marry. I cannot speak for the rest of the world, but the cultures I do know outside India, encourage a young couple to spend time with each other, live together as a couple before deciding to marry. They do this because marriage is a solemn bond and they would like to think of it as the one and only marriage, a lifetime bond. Better to know a person completely before entering this partnership. Divorce is best avoided completely and never, ever encouraged as anything but the last resort. If we would not enter a simple business partnership (which only concerns money, an insignificant and superficial item in the story of life) without understanding the partner completely, why would we do this with our lives? Of course, I speak only for those who think like me. I do not dismiss arranged marriages, they have worked for centuries in India and will work for many people even now. Quote:
I just wonder how much can be discussed of values and beliefs for a lifetime in a few hours of ladki dekhna. Even now, in progressive India I see many that want to marry for one or all of the following reasons.
@ Patience wins, I do not know what your views are on homosexuality, but I'm suspecting that you do not approve of it. I respect your view, either way. But imagine this situation for a moment: Can my homosexual friends parents truly know what is best for him? I have never seen a more loving, respectful person who loves his parents immensely and would do anything for them. He loves his family, his Indian culture and values. He is a respectable model citizen of India, decent, educated and well-behaved, not the party-animal that most people imagine gay people to be. And yet his parents neither understand homosexuality, nor want to discuss it. Would this boy's parents really know what is best for him? Quote:
I was not trying to say that your view is wrong or incorrect, merely that there are other views and needs that exist side-by-side and if you would like your views to be respected, you must offer the same respect to the opinions that are not like yours. Please do not dismiss modern Indian culture as "aping the west" or "degradation of Indian values" and "hope that our society does not follow western culture" - it is a little disrespectful. I urge you to see the reasons for the changes in our society and to seek the good in them (there is bad in everything). You cannot claim that your way is better. It is better only for you and your family. Not for everyone else who reads your view. I hope you understand. Quote:
Would a family (not yours, in general) actually expect you to choose a partner for life without having a single private word with her? In this day and age? Then how would you discuss values, religion and beliefs with the potential partner? Or would one marry on the assumption that the beliefs of the parents will be 100% mirrored in the girl? And how does the girl get to approve (or not) of the man in question? Does she have questions that she may ask of the man (in public, since the private conversation is not allowed)? And does that still work amongst some of the educated youth today? Please excuse my myriad questions. I mean no disrespect, I just don't know anyone in this situation and I think I speak for many of us. I'm treading very gently, because I don't want to step on any toes. From relationships, we have driven down to culture and society and now we're bordering on (and desperately trying to circumnavigate) religion. Our forum, society, country and culture exists solely on mutual respect of all those things. Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 18th May 2009 at 11:51. | ||||
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18th May 2009, 12:06 | #27 |
Team-BHP Support | The story of my marraige. It was sometime in October 2003. Visiting home and senses dulled by all that food my mom was making. My dad asks me about when I intend to get married. Marry, now are you kidding. Ladakh is waiting. India is waiting. My bike is my life and no way do I need a wife to slow me down. But of course I cannot say all that to my dad. Not when my mum is around. So I tell them with a deep breath of resignation. I have a big list, pa. You will need to find a girl who matches too many things. I guess you better get started. The list was quite exhaustive. 1. Must be well educated. 2. Her dad must be a college professor. 3. Must have a couple of siblings. 4. Her mom must be well educated. 5. Must have a family similar to ours. blah blah blah. I am thinking, now let me see my old man go thru confusion. Next day, My mom shakes me awake. The first thing she says is, beta tu gaya. They had called up a number listed in the classified. Girl was the last of 4 sisters. Born to a Maths professor. Her mom a graduate. She, a university rank holder. Working in Reliance. I felt like an idiot. Everyone including fate had worked me into a trap. But I had one super weapon in store. I can always reject this girl. Her sister was in Hyderabad. Once I get back to the city. My dad instructs me to go there and meet them. So a day is chosen and time set. I go over. A very nice family. I am shown some pics of this girl. When my dad called me later. I have only one thing to ask him. If he has finally gone crazy. As there is no way such a beautiful girl will ever say yes to me. Anyways, another date is set. My parents are in Hyderabad. Her parents arrive here. She comes here. We meet. I fumble and mumble my way thru the meeting. I still remember her asking me what languages I know. I replied Pascal, C, Cobol and then said, oh you mean human languages. Damn, did anyone make a bigger fool of themselves ever. When everything is predetermined is there anything we can really do. Happily married for more than 4 years now. Life never really gave me a choice. Ladakh is still waiting. |
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18th May 2009, 12:14 | #28 | ||||
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18th May 2009, 12:14 | #29 |
Distinguished - BHPian | Bravo bblost, a good explanation of a modern arranged marriage. It's match-making, where both the boy and girl have questions for each other and have the right to reject or approve of each other. |
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18th May 2009, 12:29 | #30 |
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Infractions: 0/1 (10) | To put it in simple words, this is what the youth of today want. 1. For our parents to be more understanding. For them to respect our decision of who we want to spend the rest of our lives with without making religion, caste, creed a big issue. 2. An opportunity to spend time with the person to know if he/she is the right one. To be able to live through daily life situations and to know that you have the ability to stay and fight it out together through thick and thin. And to make sure that once you get married to that person, you have no one to blame but yourself if it fails. 3. We too care for true love, commitment, honesty, as much as our parents or their previous generations did. Just because we are trying to ape western cultures, doesn't always translate to we do not respect moral values anymore. |
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