[alpha1]

Originally Posted by miharbe

I was put on insulin post which I had an exponential weight gain wherein I gained almost 25kg to weigh 110 in 2011. I was also on very high doses of insulin mixed with pioglitazone. It became a sort of vicious cycle for me where in due to the insulin I would feel hungry and because I ate more I needed to take more insulin. I have managed to stabilise the weight around 100 while the ideal is below 80

What happens if you are diabetic (type 2) and don't take insulin shots?
I assume that would lead to increase blood sugar. And increased blood sugar is like poison (it is linked to coronary arterial diseases and inflammation).

But what happens if you reduce/eliminate carbs from your diet?
(Carbs get digested to blood sugar very fast)

Please don't take my words as advice but rather questions that one must ask the doctors "treating" you.

Also I find it hard to fathom that a person suffering from type 2 diabetes (which is caused by already high insulin which causes insulin insensitivity over time) has to be given even more extraneous insulin!

This will only lead to a greater insulin insensitivity which means over time you will be forced to increase the insulin dosage continuously in order to keep the blood sugar in check!!!

I smell a classic pharma industry profit making ploy here.

The problem here are two folds:
1. you are eating stuff that gets converted to blood sugar (=glucose)
2. since your body cells are already insulin insensitive, they cannot use this blood sugar for metabolism

Since there is a supply, but no demand of glucose, it piles up in the blood.
Increasing insulin will only lead to classic catch22 situation.

Of course if the pancreas have stopped making insulin (because of extremely high load - due to increased demands of insulin since childhood or some infection) then there is no option but to inject insulin.


Again, to the thread: I am not advising anything, just questioning the line of reasoning adopted by docs and pharma industry.
We are just trying to suppress the symptoms than address the actual cause.

I am being forced by my family to consider going in for bariatric surgery and have consulted the 2 major surgeons as well. I am not convinced to go in for Gastric bypass but may go in for Sleeve Gastrectomy. However I am unable to get myself to take a decision and am sitting on the fence sice a while now.

I have tried everything in terms of alternate medicine right from methi to bhendi to the wheat flour mixed with ajwain, etc. nothing seems to have worked on me till date.

Why not just ask the doc about fasting?
What happens in diabetes if you fast for some time (say 18 hours)?

I find it funny that in our modern society, because of commercialism and unbridled capitalism of food, health and medicine sector, we seek to find out cures of the problems caused by excessive and poor eating by eating something else! The cause of the problem is excessive and frequent food.

[ECM]

What happens if you are diabetic (type 2) and don't take insulin shots?
I assume that would lead to increase blood sugar. And increased blood sugar is like poison (it is linked to coronary arterial diseases and inflammation).

Slowly BS will increase and one day person will end up with keytones in urine, before this he/she will gradually loose weight and less apatite,more thirst phenomenon is noticed.

But what happens if you reduce/eliminate carbs from your diet?
(Carbs get digested to blood sugar very fast)

In many cases even if patient takes only protein and remove carbs from diet, BS keep shooting up in chronic cases, I am one such case!
Never be in dilemma that carbs digest fast in blood,take any item made from Meida eg. Pizza, breads, nans, tandoori roti and try your formula.

Please don't take my words as advice but rather questions that one must ask the doctors "treating" you.

I wish I am not such a doctor facing such question by any patient.

Also I find it hard to fathom that a person suffering from type 2 diabetes (which is caused by already high insulin which causes insulin insensitivity over time) has to be given even more extraneous insulin!

Now this should be a bouncer for most here, use google and search for Basal and Bolus Insulin.No third insulin ever exists in human body.

The problem here are two folds:
1. you are eating stuff that gets converted to blood sugar (=glucose)
2. since your body cells are already insulin insensitive, they cannot use this blood sugar for metabolism

1. Only water does not produce sugar, rest all do it.
2.This is called insulin resistance, in Type 2 patients body produces insulin but due to insulin resistance BS remain high.

Of course if the pancreas have stopped making insulin (because of extremely high load - due to increased demands of insulin since childhood or some infection) then there is no option but to inject insulin.

Read my previous lines, this is known as Insulin resistance.

Why not just ask the doc about fasting?
What happens in diabetes if you fast for some time (say 18 hours)?

Easy to say hard to adopt, why don't you try this first? Now go here and read the outcome.
http://www.mid-day.com/articles/terr...singh/15228082

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by ECM

Now this should be a bouncer for most here, use google and search for Basal and Bolus Insulin.No third insulin ever exists in human body.
1. Only water does not produce sugar, rest all do it.
2.This is called insulin resistance, in Type 2 patients body produces insulin but due to insulin resistance BS remain high.
Read my previous lines, this is known as Insulin resistance.

Yes but if your body is insulin resistant, won't ramming more insulin make the cells even more resistant?
Incidentally isn't that what happen naturally in pre-diabetes?

Easy to say hard to adopt, why don't you try this first? Now go here and read the outcome.
http://www.mid-day.com/articles/terr...singh/15228082

But the fellow died because of choking, how is choking to death related to fasting?
Also my question reworded:
1. Why bariatric surgery?
2. Why not practice "not eating" instead? (both ultimately lead to same result)
In fact with busy lives that people lead these days - it is very easy to let go off the food once in a while.

Since someone suggested bariatric surgery, I presumed it does help a person with Type 2 diabetes.
In fact I was reading around on google and I saw few cases where people regained insulin sensitivity and in a way reversed Type2 diabetes simply by shedding the blubber.


Insulin is one of the most potent hormone in our bodies. Bodybuilders regularly use it to gain gargantuan size. (Yes its more potent than steroids).

Naturally the insulin is produces whenever we eat stuff, because the body wants to assimilate the stuff we've ingested. The very fact that body cells do not want to assimilate the stuff (by becoming insensitive to insulin) simply illustrates the fact that we've been eating far too much.

Also the frequent snacking habbit that is inculcated from childhood (increasing at an alarm rate these days because of guilty parents) - keeps the insulin at elevated levels all the time.

It is but natural for the body to simply say "I am done with this/I've had enough of this"

[ECM]

Yes but if your body is insulin resistant, won't ramming more insulin make the cells even more resistant?
Incidentally isn't that what happen naturally in pre-diabetes?

Yes this happens and we can't stop it because Diabetes is NOT a disease but a system disorder.

But the fellow died because of choking, how is choking to death related to fasting?
Also my question reworded:
1. Why bariatric surgery?
2. Why not practice "not eating" instead? (both ultimately lead to same result)
In fact with busy lives that people lead these days - it is very easy to let go off the food once in a while.

When some one is really hungry, the speed of eating is like a rocket going up in the sky and in some cases chocking happens and that is why our elders always advise us to eat slowly! See on this earth there are unwritten laws by the nature like drink when you are thirsty, eat when you are hungry-- difficult to change them.
In reply to your point.1- I too against such things,not a permanent solution and I am against it.
2-Try by self, for diabetic patients and those taking insulin your point no.2 is not practical and this you may not able to understand because you are NOT diabetic!

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by ECM

2-Try by self, for diabetic patients and those taking insulin your point no.2 is not practical and this you may not able to understand because you are NOT diabetic!

Actually I may understand somehow, with heightened insulin levels your appetite may also increase. (leading one to gain fat faster, and perhaps disable the pancreatic cells eventually - islet of langerhans)

I mentioned about Catch-22 in the way diabetes is being treated/addressed, this is one of those.

The another one is what even you have admitted - ever increasing dosage of extraneous insulin will cause ever increasing resistance to insulin.

Is there research being done about curing the disorder?
In fact with heightened blood glucose levels (not diabetic though) and elevated insulin during blood checkup - a correction in eating habit should make one revert to normalcy ... ?

Also what tips one over from pre-diabetic stage to diabetes?
Some blood glucose number? Then I believe it is not a right way.
As long as my pancreas are capable of producing insulin, I should have ways to make the body cells sensitive once again, ways to bring down the insulin levels. (Not much different from pre-diabetes stage)

Also I need to search around whether there has ever been a case of Type2 diabetes found in a person with caloric deficit (say prisoners of war, refugee camp, poor laborers etc)

[ECM]

The another one is what even you have admitted - ever increasing dosage of extraneous insulin will cause ever increasing resistance to insulin.

Yes all right + a major factor "weight" you forget to mention, When one begin to take insulin he or she MUST take care of body weight as it tends to go up due to insulin.There are many discussion on this and the cause which I able to digest the most it, in presence of Insulin dose taken by injection,the Glucose able to enter into the cells(due to proper BS) and cells become more agile due to past absence of Glucose and rapid growth is seen in them(I have tried my best to simplify this)

Is there research being done about curing the disorder?

Answer is Yes but it went no where and there are discussions that it has something to do with very strong pharma lobby in world market.
Read this--which never happened!
It never able to cross trial phase 1...reason unknown!
http://www.faustmanlab.org/
and here,
http://www.faustmanlab.org/clinicaltrial/fact_sheet.pdf

Science has no proof for what I am going to write below but this is my observation in general.
Type 1 children are more active,smart and energetic compare to T-2 and they remain same in their life where,
Type 2 patient where I see more fatigue and carelessness,bad eating habits, rough and tilting nature.
I repeat what I have written above has not been proved by science but these are my observations.

[deky]

No I am not Diabetic, but my daughter (6yrs) is a Type 1 for a year now and as of now we have failed to control her BS to normal levels. But we are getting there!!

Its been a rough ride, more for us parents, than for her, as she is pretty happy go lucky types and has accepted the daily multiple insulin injections (5 times) and the corresponding BS checks as part of her daily life.

[girimajiananth]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Also I need to search around whether there has ever been a case of Type2 diabetes found in a person with caloric deficit (say prisoners of war, refugee camp, poor laborers etc)

You will be surprised to know , my maid servant is diabetic . She does very hard physical work for almost 6-7 homes everyday ,and yet she is diabetic . Every month she visits a nearby government hospital and get medicines free of cost for one whole month. She does not eat sweets or non veg, but unfortunately she has a bad habit of chewing tobacco.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by girimajiananth

You will be surprised to know , my maid servant is diabetic . She does very hard physical work for almost 6-7 homes everyday ,and yet she is diabetic . Every month she visits a nearby government hospital and get medicines free of cost for one whole month. She does not eat sweets or non veg, but unfortunately she has a bad habit of chewing tobacco.

Is she frail/lean/thin (basically with low fat)?
I see many maids in my colony who are more obese than me! Clearly they are eating far more than their caloric requirement Even though they may be poor and do more physical labor.

Talking about thin/lean - my grandfather was quite frail - yet he developed type2 diabetes. But this happened when he was about 60. And he brought his blood sugar down to normal levels just by eating conciously and regular fasting (of course the fasting bit was religious and not the usual binge-on-potatos-while-you-fast that happens in India). No resorting to medicines and/or insulin shots.

Also once the blood sugar returns to normal levels- would you still classify the person as diabetic?

[ECM]

I see many maids in my colony who are more obese than me! Clearly they are eating far more than their caloric requirement Even though they may be poor and do more physical labor.

You bet! It depends on Gene and the hidden message inside whether any person will go fat or thin in life. I know one person who weigh 50 kilos and of an age of 55, can easily eat(and he eats mind you)40(yes four zero I mean) gulab jamun in marriage parties but still he is like a walking stick and totally healthy.I also saw few chaps who hardly eat compare to this guy but fatter and bulky. This disorder has definitely something inside gene and this medical science will find out one day. by the way your assumption of caloric requirement of maids are true but there are humans who can literally burn their calories easily without much efforts and this I wanted to point out.

[AltoLXI]

Originally Posted by ECM

You bet! It depends on Gene and the hidden message inside whether any person will go fat or thin in life. I know one person who weigh 50 kilos and of an age of 55, can easily eat(and he eats mind you)40(yes four zero I mean) gulab jamun in marriage parties but still he is like a walking stick and totally healthy.I also saw few chaps who hardly eat compare to this guy but fatter and bulky. This disorder has definitely something inside gene and this medical science will find out one day. by the way your assumption of caloric requirement of maids are true but there are humans who can literally burn their calories easily without much efforts and this I wanted to point out.

One of the reasons for weight gain, especially in women, has been Thyroid problems. Lot many people go for weight loss programs and dieting only to realize they are not working. Getting TSH levels checked by endocrinologist might help.

[ECM]

One of the reasons for weight gain, especially in women........

Well said AltoLXI , I agree.

Few essential tips for Insulin injectors, this applicable to all Insulin eg. Actrapid, insulatard,humalog or novo rapid.. I mean all.

* Always take frio bags with you when you go to medical store to buy Insulin and bring back bottles/cartridges in this bag. By any chance medical store tell you that wait for few mins as he is arranging them, tell him clearly that you want this LOT in frio bags only. Due to heat Insulin get damage so keep this in mind.
* I always prefer to buy my insulin from stockist where I get 10% less price, due to my medical background this is possible, for others you can request stockist and negotiate with him OR tell your doctor to have a talk with stockist. As this therapy will go life long saving is as good as earning in such case.
* Now you have your insulin so first thing you will do is to put the insulin in Freeze(not freezer),take one bottle/cartridge out and start using it and NEVER put this used one back in freeze but store it in a cool dry place. This used one will last for 30 days, beyond 30 days just throw it away please.
* If you are checking your BS daily it is better not to apply spirit on finger tips before the BS check(specially for T-1 children)else the oil on skin will wash out and skin will become dry, just use cotton to remove blood afterwards.
* Many people tell me indirectly when I show them red flag, they perhaps feel that I am over reacting to diabetes but I simply tell them that chance of a poor to become millionaire is just 1% but chance of millionaire turning in to a beggar is 100%, they just stop and go away.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by ECM

You bet! It depends on Gene and the hidden message inside whether any person will go fat or thin in life. I know one person who weigh 50 kilos and of an age of 55, can easily eat(and he eats mind you)40(yes four zero I mean) gulab jamun in marriage parties but still he is like a walking stick and totally healthy.I also saw few chaps who hardly eat compare to this guy but fatter and bulky. This disorder has definitely something inside gene and this medical science will find out one day. by the way your assumption of caloric requirement of maids are true but there are humans who can literally burn their calories easily without much efforts and this I wanted to point out.

Agreed.
But I understand the gain in fat (very different from eating fat) has been linked to diabetes-II.
So for any person (especially who have diabetes running in their genes) really need to monitor what they eat. If I am gaining fat (easily seen/measured by waist) I am eating far more than my body needs.

So genes may not be in my favor, but I can still prolong it.

Originally Posted by AltoLXI

One of the reasons for weight gain, especially in women, has been Thyroid problems. Lot many people go for weight loss programs and dieting only to realize they are not working. Getting TSH levels checked by endocrinologist might help.

In fact one may not get TSH, T3, T4 levels checked via blood test.
Having a low core temperature (lower than 36.5 deg C) is a good indicator about hypo condition.

[ECM]

But I understand the gain in fat (very different from eating fat) has been linked to diabetes-II.

And I have seen many persons who are thin/having regular body mass and still diabetic, Fat is one criteria but not compulsory in T-2, where in T-1 many children I saw were not fat.
Needless to say there are few people who weigh over 100 kgs. but they are not diabetic! This includes couple of my friends and cousins.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by ECM

And I have seen many persons who are thin/having regular body mass and still diabetic, Fat is one criteria but not compulsory in T-2, where in T-1 many children I saw were not fat.
Needless to say there are few people who weigh over 100 kgs. but they are not diabetic! This includes couple of my friends and cousins.

T1 case is the most unfortunate :(
I don't think it has connection to anything (although I did read somewhere that it may be connected to some childhood vaccination stuff - don't know how well it has been tested/verified though).

T2 cases in young age is really a lifestyle problem. Half a century back we didn't have as many T2 cases at <40 years as we have today. Incidentally half a century back people were not gobbling food (processed and refined especially) constantly like saline drips (snacking, sweet beverage etc). They were also not living under constant stress to achieve the marketed/promoted lifestyle dreams while abusing their young bodies.

So unless there is something far more hidden and sinister working (like pesticides, fertilizers, GM food) it has to be the current lifestyle.