[Oxy]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

Did you give a speparate form for Pension amount also to be transferred to EPFO office? If not give it then only pension amount gets transferred.

Why have they introduced this additional hassle to fill a separate form for transferring the pension amount? And I am not aware of my pension account number. I am working in my current organization since more than 5 years and we have not been communicated about this.

Can you throw more light on this? Which is the form I need to fill and where do I submit it?

[RaguHolla]

Originally Posted by Oxy

Why have they introduced this additional hassle to fill a separate form for transferring the pension amount? And I am not aware of my pension account number. I am working in my current organization since more than 5 years and we have not been communicated about this.

Can you throw more light on this? Which is the form I need to fill and where do I submit it?

Its the same PF number. But PF & Pension two different departments (or functions in PF department). Hence two different forms. By law Pension is mandatory, then comes PF. Most workers have only pension.

Lots of things could be simple if only Govt wants it to be simple. But we are are stuck to bureaucratic framework.

The Form you need to submit is Form 10C (attested by employer). along with form 4PS, 5PS, and 7PS (provided by employer).

Hope this helps you.

[pankaj_sachdeva]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

The Form you need to submit is Form 10C (attested by employer). along with form 4PS, 5PS, and 7PS (provided by employer).

Hope this helps you.

Thanks for the information on form for withdrawing the pension.

Can you please also confirm the form no for withdrawing the PF fund. Is it form no. 19?
I want to withdraw my PF benefits from my earlier organization where i was employed till Oct 2013, as my current organization's HR department has not submitted my PF transfer form despite being with them from last 1.5 years

Will there be any special formalities that need to completed, considering there is no deposits in this particular PF account from Nov 2013 onwards.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

Its the same PF number. But PF & Pension two different departments (or functions in PF department). Hence two different forms. By law Pension is mandatory, then comes PF. Most workers have only pension.

Lots of things could be simple if only Govt wants it to be simple. But we are are stuck to bureaucratic framework.

The Form you need to submit is Form 10C (attested by employer). along with form 4PS, 5PS, and 7PS (provided by employer).

Hope this helps you.

Thanks very much, it did help.

I just saw the Form 10C. It prompts to fill Date of Joining and Date of Leaving. So does it mean that I need to go to my previous employer to get it attested? Also, is it my previous employer who is supposed to provide me with the forms 4PS, 5PS and 7PS?

Also, the form says that the amount will not be transferred, but will be credited to my SB account. Why? I only want it transferred.

[RaguHolla]

Originally Posted by pankaj_sachdeva

Thanks for the information on form for withdrawing the pension.

Can you please also confirm the form no for withdrawing the PF fund. Is it form no. 19?
I want to withdraw my PF benefits from my earlier organization where i was employed till Oct 2013, as my current organization's HR department has not submitted my PF transfer form despite being with them from last 1.5 years

Will there be any special formalities that need to completed, considering there is no deposits in this particular PF account from Nov 2013 onwards.

I got all confused now. You say your e Passbook contains previous values? Is it your e Passbook you are seeing old PF number or new one? If it is new one, isn't PF is already transferred?

Also which one you want transfer, PF (provident fund), or EPF (employee pension fund). Above procedure I told you about is for EPF. For PF I guess you need to follow PF form.

[RaguHolla]

Originally Posted by Oxy

Thanks very much, it did help.

I just saw the Form 10C. It prompts to fill Date of Joining and Date of Leaving. So does it mean that I need to go to my previous employer to get it attested?

Yes. You have to visit your old employer.

Originally Posted by Oxy

Also, is it my previous employer who is supposed to provide me with the forms 4PS, 5PS and 7PS?

When you give them Form 10C, they will either give you other forms or if they will only submit all documents to EPF office . In later case please ask them about acknowledgement of submission.

Originally Posted by Oxy

Also, the form says that the amount will not be transferred, but will be credited to my SB account. Why? I only want it transferred.

I am sure about this par.

[pankaj_sachdeva]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

I got all confused now. You say your e Passbook contains previous values? Is it your e Passbook you are seeing old PF number or new one? If it is new one, isn't PF is already transferred?

Also which one you want transfer, PF (provident fund), or EPF (employee pension fund). Above procedure I told you about is for EPF. For PF I guess you need to follow PF form.

Apologies for the confusion. I will try to make it simple below:

Employer A is in Gujrat where i worked for 2 years till Oct 2013.

Employer B in Pune where i presently employed from Nov 2013.

Now I have 1 EPF/PF (basically 12 % contribution from mine and then my employer's side. Employer's contribution is split between Provident fund and pension fund) account for each Gujarat and Pune organization.

Employer B never initiated the transfer for my funds from employer A and I am now inclined to withdraw my PF/EPF funds from account opened by employer A.

While i understood from your post that form 10C is required for withdrawal of pension fund, I would like to know the form no. to be used for PF withdrawal.

Hope I was able to explain the situation !!

[RaguHolla]

Originally Posted by pankaj_sachdeva

While i understood from your post that form 10C is required for withdrawal of pension fund, I would like to know the form no. to be used for PF withdrawal.

Hope I was able to explain the situation !!

Now we are clear. As you earlier mentioned its Form 19 for PF part and Form 10C for EPF part. You can find details in this link (http://www.epfbng.kar.nic.in/formdownloads1.html)

[pankaj_sachdeva]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

Now we are clear. As you earlier mentioned its Form 19 for PF part and Form 10C for EPF part. You can find details in this link (http://www.epfbng.kar.nic.in/formdownloads1.html)

Thank you !! It certainly helps

[Oxy]

Did quite a bit of research yesterday to see where the Pension Fund amount vanishes when we initiate a PF transfer.

A little background on the issue:

If you view your e-passbook on the EPFO website, you can see three components - Employee contribution, Employer contribution and Pension Fund. Every month, Rs.541 is diverted to the pension fund from the Employer contribution (unless your salary is Rs.6500 or less). This pension fund component does not gain any interest.

When you initiate a transfer of this PF, the Employee and Employer contributions are correctly reflected in the passbook of the new account, but the Pension Fund shows nil.

What I have gathered so far:

When you transfer your earlier PF, the date since you have been a PF member is updated, based on the Date of Joining the previous organization you fill in your transfer form, but the pension fund money itself is not transferred.

Now if you are a PF member for 9 and a half years or less, you have an option to fill the form 10C and withdraw your pension fund, but you won't get the entire amount. The amount of pension fund you get depends on when you withdraw it as per Table D (Google EPS Table D). This partial amount will then come directly to your bank account after approval.

However, if you have been contributing to your PF since 10 years or more (anything above 9 and a half years is rounded off to 10 years), then your pension fund will be used to give you a monthly pension of Rs.3250 when you retire at the age of 58 years. There's an option to receive this monthly pension from the age of 50 as well, but the amount will be lesser.

What will a pension of Rs.3250 mean 20 plus years from now?

And as I understand, you don't have a choice but to put up with this nonsense.

[NPV]

Need a clarification on PF forms.
My understanding is that on joining a new company, if you wish to transfer previous PF account, you first need to open a new PF account so fill out Form 2 and nominations, etc.
Once the new account is opened, fill another form to have previous PF account proceeds transferred to the new account. For this transfer do we use Form 11 or Form 13 ?
If it is Form 13, then when should we fill Form 11 ? Confused!

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by Oxy

What will a pension of Rs.3250 mean 20 plus years from now?

And as I understand, you don't have a choice but to put up with this nonsense.

After 20 years, it will certainly go up. Not sure how much though. To give you a pointer, my boss retired in 2001, after contributing to the Pension fund from November, 1995 (the date the scheme was introduced). I spoke to him a month ago. He was initially getting Rs 800 as pension, but now it is around 1500 or so for the past 3 years.

Rs 3250 seems to be the latest figure for someone who's contributed for past 10+ years( like me). Looks like it will be enough to fill in a full tank of diesel when I retire after a few years.

There is an excellent analysis on net, probably from Jago Investor.

There they have shown that what we get is not even interest part of what we contribute. Forget the principal. Not even the interest part of it. If there is a way to stop contributing to this damn scheme, i would do it right now.

[benbsb29]

Guys, I am not in India at the moment, and wanted to initiate the process for my PF withdrawal. Owing to certain reasons, I didn't initiate the withdrawal when leaving my previous company.

Would it be possible to initiate the process remotely/online, or is my physical presence required to submit the application?

Thanks in advance.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

Guys, I am not in India at the moment, and wanted to initiate the process for my PF withdrawal. Owing to certain reasons, I didn't initiate the withdrawal when leaving my previous company.

Would it be possible to initiate the process remotely/online, or is my physical presence required to submit the application?

Thanks in advance.

As far as I know, there is a process in place for online transfer of PF, provided both your employers (current and previous ones) have registered for it. That can be verified here:

http://www.epfindia.com/Employee_OTCP.html

However, if you wish to withdraw, your physical presence is required.

I suggest you get it transferred. The PF is supposed to be your retirement corpus. It really does not make any sense to withdraw the money unless you really need it immediately.