[carboy]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

I already have a good health insurance from my employer and am wondering if I should take extra health insurance or life insurance with CI.

Why would anyone want 2 health insurances?

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

Does anyone know of any health insurance where the premium doesn't go up (or goes up on a pre-determined basis) every year?

ICICI prudential health saver policy

Here is the link ICICI Prudential Health Saver - Why Health Saver?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by carboy

Why would anyone want 2 health insurances?

It is always advisable to have an health cover in addition to the one provided by the employer. The health policy provided by employer stays with you till the time you are employed whereas the additional health ploicy stays with you even after you change the employers and if the new employers dont have any health coverage.

The early you get your health insured the better. Higher Sum Insured, lower premium are the advantages. Most of the Insurers providing health insurance provide either increasing Sum Insured or decreasing premiums in case of every claim free year.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

It is always advisable to have an health cover in addition to the one provided by the employer. The health policy provided by employer stays with you till the time you are employed whereas the additional health ploicy stays with you even after you change the employers and if the new employers dont have any health coverage.

Why can't you buy your health insurance as & when you lose the job which has health coverage?
Consider 2 options
1) You voluntarily change jobs
Typically, you have a 1 month notice period when you change jobs - isn't that enough to buy health insurance?

2) You are laid off - here you would have a lag. I don't consider the the probability one being laid off & and at the same time needing major health coverage before you have a chance to buy new coverage to be low enough to ignore it. For any minor hospitalization which happens in this lag period, you can use the 'X' amount you saved every year by not buying health insurance year after year, when you already had company coverage.

Assume, you buy medical insurance for 5 years unneccessarily before losing your job. You pay 10000 per year. Instead you put in a recurring deposit or something. When you lose your job, you would have around 60K for taking care any minor health problems.

Yeah, there is a possibility that you may lose your job & need major hospitalization you cannot afford in the 15 days or 1 month it takes to buy new insurance, but I think I would rather take that risk than pay for a 2nd insurance year after year all through my life.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

The early you get your health insured the better. Higher Sum Insured, lower premium are the advantages. Most of the Insurers providing health insurance provide either increasing Sum Insured or decreasing premiums in case of every claim free year.

Do they guarantee that the premiums won't increase to take care of the increasing medical costs due to inflation, your risk increase because of your increasing age etc?


Considering worst possible scenarios, the one thing one may consider is buying something a policy which says something like
this
- This policy comes into play only if my annual hospitalisation cost goes more than 2 Lakhs (this figure may vary for different people - it's just a random figure I thought of). Even if it goes above 2 lakhs, I will pay the first 2 lakhs & the insurance will pay whatever goes beyond 2 lakhs for that year.

Such policy would probably have a much lower premium. This is the only thing I can consider buying as a 2nd insurance (assuming such policies are available), if I already have coverage through my employer.

[amitk26]

Even I am thinking about an additional health insurance cover but health Insurance has become quite unattractive after they have removed cashless benifit from major hospitals.

I checked the brochure of the health cover provided by my employer it has now only minor clinics and mostly eye/dental care institutes in the list for cashless. For those kind of places i really do not need any cover and can pay from my pocket.

Minor surguries like leproscopic stone removal , cataract correction,small fractures etc is quite cheap in the smaller hospitals and you can cover them in 2/3 years of premium anyway.

All major surgeries which are quite probable once you are old such as bypass, angeoplasty , Joint/Knee replacement , cancers or any major infectious disease require specialized hospitals which the insurance companies term as expensive.Unfortunately for these kind of procedure you can not go to these small private clinics/hospitals.

[ghodlur]

[quote=carboy;2088973]

Why can't you buy your health insurance as & when you lose the job which has health coverage?
Consider 2 options
1) You voluntarily change jobs
Typically, you have a 1 month notice period when you change jobs - isn't that enough to buy health insurance?

Why would someone want to take a medical insurance when one leaves the job. The medical cover is for any uncertainities for the year. Believe during one month notice you surely have lots more to think than buying a medical Insurance.

Assume, you buy medical insurance for 5 years unneccessarily before losing your job. You pay 10000 per year. Instead you put in a recurring deposit or something. When you lose your job, you would have around 60K for taking care any minor health problems

Would you be more concerned about the lost income or make arrangement for medical problems during the period of unemployment. I really doubt that.

Do they guarantee that the premiums won't increase to take care of the increasing medical costs due to inflation, your risk increase because of your increasing age etc?

The decreasing premiums is as per the dicounts allowed for claim free year. Either that or the Sum insured can be increased in %. Something very similar to car insurance NCB, you do get the premium reduced isn'it? Increased Sum insured takes care of the increasing medical costs.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Why would someone want to take a medical insurance when one leaves the job.

If one doesn't have coverage in the next job, then you would want to take medical insurance, right? Better to do it then, then pay for a 2nd insurance year after year.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Would you be more concerned about the lost income or make arrangement for medical problems during the period of unemployment. I really doubt that.

If I am not going to have any income at all, then my #1 concern would be on how to avoid any big expenditure. Buying health insurance would be a way to do that.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

The decreasing premiums is as per the dicounts allowed for claim free year. Either that or the Sum insured can be increased in %. Something very similar to car insurance NCB, you do get the premium reduced isn'it? Increased Sum insured takes care of the increasing medical costs.

In case of car insurance, you get a discount for a claim free year. But the thing that makes your premiums go down each year is the fact that your car depreciates each year. So your insured value goes down each year &
your premiums decrease because of that.

For eg. if a 5 lakh car gets totalled in year 1, the insurance company would pay you 4.5 lakhs. If it gets totalled in year 5, they would pay a far smaller amount to you. That's why your premiums go down.

But human beings don't depreciate each year. On the other, the health risk increases each year because of increasing age.

[amitk26]

Carboy I agree to most of your points except one point that you take insurance late then you have to shell off higher premium and after a point no company may be willing to offer insurance.

However one need to think of how much risk one can take. Lets say you can easily set aside 5 Lakhs from your total life savings for health emergency then there is no point in taking 5 L cover and you may want 10L cover to derisk yourself but then probability of procedures requiring 10L and premium for the same need to be accounted for.

I am highly confused myself about this issue

[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

ICICI prudential health saver policy

Here is the link ICICI Prudential Health Saver - Why Health Saver?

Thanks, Deep Blue!

However it seems to be a hybrid product.

It has health insurance + investment. I am not sure I want to end up in an ULIP-type situation all over again.

Originally Posted by amitk26

Even I am thinking about an additional health insurance cover but health Insurance has become quite unattractive after they have removed cashless benifit from major hospitals.

I checked the brochure of the health cover provided by my employer it has now only minor clinics and mostly eye/dental care institutes in the list for cashless. For those kind of places i really do not need any cover and can pay from my pocket.

Minor surguries like leproscopic stone removal , cataract correction,small fractures etc is quite cheap in the smaller hospitals and you can cover them in 2/3 years of premium anyway.

All major surgeries which are quite probable once you are old such as bypass, angeoplasty , Joint/Knee replacement , cancers or any major infectious disease require specialized hospitals which the insurance companies term as expensive.Unfortunately for these kind of procedure you can not go to these small private clinics/hospitals.

I took a look at the Kotak Preferred Term Life Plan. It has a critical Illness rider that covers 12 illnesses. At my age coverage for 12 lakhs costs 12,000 a year.

I am leaning towards this because if I end up in a dire situation then these funds can be used for treatment.

Kotak is saying that you can apply at the first instance of the illness (say in the case of a heart attack) and they will usually disburse the money within 7 days.

Biggest plus point in this approach is that the 12K premium for 12 lakhs does not increase over the next 30 years. Also they give 12 lakhs lump-sum unlike the health coverage.

Biggest negative is that this rider can only be used once in 30 years. So if I have a second heart attack, I am on my own.

Also there may be a lag between hospitalization and receipt of money, but I already have a family floater health insurance to take care of the initial hit.

Let me know if the above train of thought makes sense.

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

Thanks, Deep Blue!

However it seems to be a hybrid product.

It has health insurance + investment. I am not sure I want to end up in an ULIP-type situation all over again.

Yes, part of the premium does go to Mutual funds.
Fews advantages I figured out are
1.Whatever is not covered in conventional insurance ( dental, OPD, congenital anomalies, preexisting illnesses) etc can be claimed from the portion invested in mutual funds.
2.Also accumulated MF units continues as health cover after the conventional health insurance stops.
3.You can redeem the MF units only against health bills.So I am forced to accumulate a fund specifically for my health needs.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

Yes, part of the premium does go to Mutual funds.
Fews advantages I figured out are
1.Whatever is not covered in conventional insurance ( dental, OPD, congenital anomalies, preexisting illnesses) etc can be claimed from the portion invested in mutual funds.
2.Also accumulated MF units continues as health cover after the conventional health insurance stops.
3.You can redeem the MF units only against health bills.So I am forced to accumulate a fund specifically for my health needs.

How are these advantages? Can't you yourself buy a MF separately & do the same?

[rkg]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

Thanks, Deep Blue!

However it seems to be a hybrid product.

It has health insurance + investment. I am not sure I want to end up in an ULIP-type situation all over again.



I took a look at the Kotak Preferred Term Life Plan. It has a critical Illness rider that covers 12 illnesses. At my age coverage for 12 lakhs costs 12,000 a year.

I am leaning towards this because if I end up in a dire situation then these funds can be used for treatment.

Kotak is saying that you can apply at the first instance of the illness (say in the case of a heart attack) and they will usually disburse the money within 7 days.

Biggest plus point in this approach is that the 12K premium for 12 lakhs does not increase over the next 30 years. Also they give 12 lakhs lump-sum unlike the health coverage.

Biggest negative is that this rider can only be used once in 30 years. So if I have a second heart attack, I am on my own.

Also there may be a lag between hospitalization and receipt of money, but I already have a family floater health insurance to take care of the initial hit.

Let me know if the above train of thought makes sense.

It is not good to link life insurance with health insurance.

the cost will always be very high for a combined policy.
You are better off by taking a Aegon religare/ICICI i term policy ( i think it will cost you around 6-7K for 50 lakh cover ) and take health policy separately which will cover more than what Kotak is offering

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by carboy

How are these advantages? Can't you yourself buy a MF separately & do the same?

Advantages over conventional health insurance.

I agree with you, that buying MF seperately by myself will definitely be cheaper but the problem with me is Iam not a disciplined investor. I may or may not commit the funds every year. I may redeem the units for other than health purposes. So this sort of forces me to do it albeit at extra cost.

Actually, before I took this policy, I was thinking if I can be a disciplined investor to accumulate a kitty exclusively for health purposes, SHOULD i even take health insurance. If I can accumulate 10-15 lakh by 55 yrs and can meet sudden eventualities upto 2-3lakhs before 55yrs, should I really take health insurance?

I am a doc myself and always had this feeling that health insurance is being made into a big bogey by the insurance companies and possibly the corporate health sector. It is unnecessarily pushing up health care costs.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

I am a doc myself and always had this feeling that health insurance is being made into a big bogey by the insurance companies and possibly the corporate health sector. It is unnecessarily pushing up health care costs.

Fully agree with you here. In my opinion, the US Healthcare affordability mess has been totally caused by Medical Insurance & HMOs (since the time this was greatly expanded during the Nixon Administration)

Once Medical Insurance & HMOs take over the healthcare industry, it would become unaffordable to even visit a doctor for routine stuff unless you have insurance.

Also, I try to visit individual doctor clinics over Healthcare chains & hospitals whenever possible.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Can anybody help me understand the concept of backdating in Life Insurance?

Can a person born in May gain any benefit by backdating a new policy now (to be applied for in October)?

Is it beneficial?

Is it worth / useful if I backdate the policy to June / July?

What would be cost / penalty?

If I take a 20 year policy now, and bckdate it, to say April, would the premiums (opting for annual payment) be payable in April or OCtober of next year? And the policy will mature in April or October?

Basic idea is that I want to pay only annual premium, and having to pay in Sept/ Oct and April would be trouble; so want to see if there is any benefit in opting for June/Jul/August premium due dates.

But, after doing some searches, realised that if backdating within the financial year is possible, and I backdate to the month before date of birth, (ie. April in this case), may result in premium saving due to reduced premium rate.

Please let me know if any further info is required.