[tsk1979]

At 8000 levels the sensex PE would be 12-14x
So isnt the market overpriced even at 8000 levels. 10K seems to be grossly overpriced.

[sbasak]

Because you have got to square your transaction off by buying it back.

What is the time period for holding of shares? Is it few hours or few days? How short is short selling?

[BomBatt]

Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team

I know a few guys who gave up their jobs and even a doctor who stopped his practice to bet on the market on a moment to moment basis - glued to the broker's terminal between 9:55 to 3:30, Monday to Friday.
Playing the market for fun with money you can spare is fine, but those who took to daily fatka as a profession are completely doomed and ruined. Many of them actually believed they were doing a business !!!

Sudipto, I can't understand being such a knowledgable person, why you are making such a statement.

I gave up my job (due to some disability) and started earning thru market full time as you say, glued to terminal all day. But I am not gambling nor am I playing the market for fun. And I do believe that it is a serious business. And there are thousands and lakhs of ppl earning their bread and butter from the stock market. Not all of them are fools? and without them, will there be any market? Then where will ppl like you invest your extra (useless) money? and play for fun...

It is said that less than 2% of savings in India is invested in stock markets because people still have a misconception that it is some sort of gambling. Thats the reason why we are too dependent on FIIs.

I am doing quite well and am earning much more than any salaried job I am capable of.

I am not a highly qualified person like most of you guys who have MNC jobs earning millions in salaries. When I quit my job, I was earning 20,000 pm that too after slogging for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, and in triple shifts. And that was the gambling I used do with my health and I paid for it.

At the end, I would say if you are not careful enough, anything in life can be a gamble. In these days, not taking any risk itself is a gamble !
cheers:

[ravibhat]

My GOD Today Market fell down!!

Nifty fell from 3250 to below 3000 levels so another 150 points fall is likely on cards. So lets hope it would get support at 2850 levels.

Regards,

Ravi.

PS Sudipto lets cool down

[Sudipto-S-Team]

@Bombatt
Hats off to you sir and your ability to stay afloat in this market with daily trading and fatka. But I still think gambling is not a very sustainable profession over a long period. Incidentally I don't work for any MNC and don't have any fancy degree.

@ Basak
For an individual investor shorting individual shares, the time limit is end of the day. You have to square off by the end of the day. But if you are shorting in the F&O market your time limit is infinity but you have to keep paying mark to market margin as your losses mount (I am assuming you are holding on because losses are mounting) on a daily basis. In F&O segment the concept of market lot kicks in.
For example, theoritically you can short even one share of let's say Tisco in the morning and square it off before the end of the day (provided you can find a broker who will actually do it. Real life brokers prefer larger volumes).
But if you want to short Tisco futures - you have to short at least one lot of Tisco and that means 382 shares. This number is a bit arbitrary in nature and is decided by the stock exchange authority and varies from scrip to scrip.
The fixed margin and M2M requirement in the F&O segment is extremely strict. In fact this is one of the reasons why we did not see any payment crisis in the market during this fall.
I almost sound like a stock market tutor. I think I will stop now.

[sbasak]

I almost sound like a stock market tutor. I think I will stop now.

No you shouldn't cheers:

I think most people still fear stock market as no one really teaches them exactly how it operates. I always wanted to invest in stocks since my college days but no one ever guided me. Then after many years, one day a friend of mine explained in detail how stocks work. He even showed me in his demat a/c how he actually trades stocks. After that I felt quite comfortable in stocks and started enjoying investing in it.

However, I still believe that one should invest in stocks only the money he can afford to lose in worst case.

[sanjaymugur]

Originally Posted by BomBatt

And I do believe that it is a serious business. And there are thousands and lakhs of ppl earning their bread and butter from the stock market. Not all of them are fools? and without them, will there be any market?

nice to here thet your are making a living by trading/investing in stock mkts...

just a word of caution for day & short term traders... if u are not very careful your full year earning will be lost in one day...

[spadival]

Originally Posted by BomBatt

At the end, I would say if you are not careful enough, anything in life can be a gamble. In these days, not taking any risk itself is a gamble !
cheers:

I fully agree with that last line. Its just a matter of a person's risk appetite, whether he wants to do short term trading or long term investment or plain gambling. Only advise that can be given about the stock market is this - Dont follow anyone, I mean, ANY ONE blindly (Even Warren Buffet or the so called experts on CNBC). At the end of the day, its the sheep that usually get slaughtered.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by sanjaymugur

nice to here thet your are making a living by trading/investing in stock mkts...

just a word of caution for day & short term traders... if u are not very careful your full year earning will be lost in one day...

Change that to "if you are not very lucky ......"

[BomBatt]

Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team

But I still think gambling is not a very sustainable profession over a long period.

Sudipto da, let me clarify.

I rarely do intraday trading and never go into F&O, and I never short sell.

Today, Bharti Airtel suddenly fell and I bought 32 shares @ 620. (for apprx 20 K). The idea was, if market was to fall further in coming days, and if it goes down still, at around 580, I would buy some more. And if it falls even more, I would again buy some more and average out. Now, let us say market falls even more, I will just hold and wait.

But surprisingly, today itself it started moving up and I could sell it @ 660 and earn some profit.

Same way, I have also bought Tulip telecom @ 664, it hasn't moved up, so I am holding it. Tomorrow, if it goes below 600, I will buy some more...

At any given time, I allways will have 20-30% cash and deploy it on days when there is complete breakdown like it happened on 27 October.

Having done above, let me confess, in the month of September and October, my earning was ** negative ** 10 K ! because it was one way downward journey .

This way, I have been able to survive so far. If this is gambling, so be it.

Originally Posted by sanjaymugur

just a word of caution for day & short term traders... if u are not very careful your full year earning will be lost in one day...

Sanjay, this happens if you do something called margin trading. Having been in the markets for the last 3 years, I still don't know what is margin trading, and I never wish to know about it.

[Sudipto-S-Team]

Well, calling this gambling is perhaps a bit too harsh. But it is not investment in the classical sense of the word either. But anyway, as long as you are happy and it supports you and your family who am I to say anything.
But this kind of activity brings in profit only if there is a lot of trading volume and volatility in the market. When trading volume dries up - as it did for a prolonged period of time of a few years in the late 90s - there will be problem. Brokers are worse affected by lack of trading volume and volatility. Since you have not seen those times personally, you will not really understand the situation.
Let's just hope that those days don't come back but I have a sinking fear that it might come back.
The kind of violent volatility I saw today is something that baffles me and points towards this. The sustained bull rise of a few years has been followed by a sharp correction over the last 11 months.
I am fearing now the market will enter a phase of no movement for a few months. That would finish off a lot of small daily traders who thrive on volatility and movement either way.
I sound like a dooms day man. I don't want to. Believe me I have seen this market for 25 years now. I have seen Pherwani and Darbari Seth come and go. I have seen Harshad Mehta come and go. I have seen Ketan Parekh come and go. I have seen dotcom boom and bust. I have seen new issue boom and bust in the mid 90s.
Let's just hope things work out fine for you and your family.

[madbullram]

sudipto: Your analysis are interesting. I am just starting with stocks and looking at investing 12k (surplus may will me buy a plasma in a year).
What are the stocks you would suggest?
In simple terms (those technical terms are too confusing) when should look at selling them (may be when it doubles if at all?)

[sanjaymugur]

Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team

Believe me I have seen this market for 25 years now.

WOW sir, you should be holidaying in france on those lovely beaches...

just 500 shares of infosys bought during your time could have kept 3 generations of family away from daily grind of work.. just holidaying for life....

if you dont mind can you share some of the experience/incidents/mkt talk during your times to the not so experienced in the mkts... it will be great to listen

[Sudipto-S-Team]

@ Madbull
I have no scrip-specific advice to offer boss. Sorry. I never give or take "tips" on the stock market. Just make sure you buy blue chips. Don't buy companies you have never heard of. Don't buy companies you read about in the investment columns of newspapers, magazines and business channels. If you find the same company being tipped in various places, avoid it like plague.

@Sanjaymugur
The fact that I drive a car every day to work and live in general comfort (if not luxury) in the house that I built with my own money, is almost equivalent to a holiday in France - given the kind of humble financial background from which I come. This is not entirely because of old investments in the market but yes I have had my share of 10 baggers in life - though not necessarily Infosys. I didn't buy Infosys. I would never buy a company like Infosys in the initial years.
You see only one Infosys today, but you don't see the thousands of other similar kind of companies who vanished into the thin air. I have also lost a lot of money in the initial years and I still do sometimes.
I had bought Neyveli Lignite at Rs 8. I bought a few thousand more at Rs 12. Sold them all at various prices above Rs 100. This is just one example.
I know a client of my broker friend who used to be a big fatka player. Instead of taking his profit in cash he used to buy SAIL which used to quote at Rs 4/5/6 in those days with very low volume. I think he still has a few thousand SAIL bought in the late 90s at that kind of price.
I have learnt one big lesson from the stock market - the moment you make some money in a short time and think oh what a brilliant investor I am, the market teaches you a big cruel lesson and takes away more than what it gave you. It's quite like the sea waves that Elliot saw before postulating his theory.

[sureshkishore]

I am a watchful investor have a few stocks mostly bought as IPO some time back. Havent really done much open market buying. I go by what my amma says. She's a veteran banker and my investment guru.