[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by MDED

I have been working at a PSB since July 2009 and covered under the new pension system of GoI. Though my bank is lined up for privatisation by the GoI and other majority shareholder LIC, the job safety is there, however the pressure to achieve the targets, sell insurance, do compliance under tight deadlines is taking a heavy toll on the present day bankers. Just Google, suicide by bankers and you will be astonished about the number ot stress related deaths in banking.

I worked there for several years and it was a great learning curve. One branch manager committed suicide at a nearby branch, people said it was a heart problem. It is/was one of the finest PSBs in India. It did not have any union for employees till I was there. Don't know the reality now. Such an old organisation and without an employee union says volumes about the eliteness. At some point in time it was on par with the RBI. But that's just past.

Having lived among the employees of erstwhile UWB, which the PSB took over many years back, I came to know what a union (UWB had a union of its own) is and what happens to employees of a small organisation that is taken over by a giant. Some things are good some bad.

The stress part that bankers undergo is fearsome across the board. If not for unions, bankers would have a tough time completing their service tenures. The PSB used to hire directly from fine management colleges but years back they started recruiting from the national level exam and some other channels too. Even the 'executives' were great talented and hardworking people.

Came across many employees who could have gone and landed far better jobs than here but they somehow just got attached to it. Give it to the great work culture. Retail banking is harsh and some of the new recruits who landed at cushy jobs at corporate level (AML, Treasury...) were better off.

Know at least 5 people who left as soon as they got their next promotion. They left for either private banks or simply went abroad and started from scratch. I had joined the bank hoping to work only for several months but ended up working for a few years, waiting for the recruitment process of my next job to be over, which took a total of 3.5 years.

I owe a lot to the bank for whatever I am today. I had a great time. And for a minimalist like me, money and perks were fantastic.

It'd be great if you can shed some light on what's going on next as far as the privatisation thing is concerned. Nothing like hearing it straight from the horse's mouth. All i get to know is from HinduBusinessLine, they seem to get the most accurate info as far as our bank is concerned.

[am1m]

Where I'm at now, I get to meet with some doctors in a hospital setting. Had an interesting conversation with a doctor the other day. He wanted to leave the hospital he'd been working at for the past few years because he wanted a better work-life balance. He was complaining about how the management were making it difficult, constantly extending his relieving date and making it hard for him to leave. And alternatively threatening him, asking him to pay some ridiculous amount to get relieved early. From what I understand, from his more senior colleagues, this is a good doctor, someone who did good things at his workplace. And this is a very prominent hospital, over 5 decades old.

All this sounded so much like the employee-HR complaints you hear in IT! So looks like these issues of messy exits is not restricted to "spoiled IT employees" after all. I think it's more a case of the expectations of a younger workforce everywhere in conflict with the ideals of older management.

I always think about my grandfather and what his reaction would be to my work situation, my whole career probably. Never worn a tie even once to work in over 20 years. Probably visited the office only 10-15 times in the past 4 years. Address my managers and their managers by their first names, even at my first job. Have taken a couple of hours off in the middle of the day to attend to personal work (but never at the cost of any work deadline). Things like that, he would never have understood how I could have gotten employment anywhere, much less make a career over 2 decades!

Personally, I'm glad that there is a more assertive workforce now. At my first few jobs, we lived in perpetual fear of losing our jobs and with some sort of perpetual gratitude to the company and managers who "granted" us those jobs. Some of that attitude still lingers in me. I think it's better all-around for people to treat it for what it is- a professional working arrangement.

(Of course that doesn't mean that one doesn't form personal relationships with those we work with. But I'd like to think that people are different and so much more than the companies/brands they work for.)

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by am1m

... Had an interesting conversation with a doctor the other day. He wanted to leave the hospital he'd been working at for the past few years because he wanted a better work-life balance...

Interesting.. which specialty was he in?

I recently saw an Insta reel where the AIIMS rank#1 Neurosurgeon said to a podcaster than a rank#1 Neurosurgeon earns enough to buy a Lamborghini every month (). Considering the cheapest Lambo in India is the Huracan Evo at 3.8cr, in terms of work life balance, such doctors should have enough say and sway.

Or may be that doc was exaggerating a bit. Probably the actual doctors in the group can shed some light.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Interesting.. which specialty was he in?

Not sure why that makes a difference, but it was not Neurosurgery. And I'm pretty sure I didn't see a Lambo in the parking lot! (Lambo...Neurosurgeon, sounds like the trailer for 'Dr.Strange'! ) Whatever the specialty, most doctors don't really have a very good work-life balance anyway, irrespective of how much money they make.

I didn't bother to dig more because I saw no reason not to take his statements at face value.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

I only enquire because at times, doctors with good specialties command a premium and many hospitals pander to their demands (like a niche skill in IT).

Ah ok, yes, you are correct. But those are a select few. I know for a fact that the more junior doctors don't have it so good. Residents have it very hard. I know of one resident doctor who was slapped by his senior during a particularly tense situation in the hospital. And they both still work there.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

And docs not have a good work-life balance is a surprise!

Quite a few docs in the family. I've seen all of them put work first, then everything else, including their own health and families. But I think we're going off-topic here. My point was that a lot of the employee/job issues that we hear about are not restricted to the IT industry alone. My point is perhaps it is a demographic thing.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by am1m

Not sure why that makes a difference, but it was not Neurosurgery. And I'm pretty sure I didn't see a Lambo in the parking lot!

I didn't bother to dig more because I saw no reason not to take his statements at face value.

I only enquire because at times, doctors with good specialties command a premium and many hospitals pander to their demands (like a niche skill in IT). And docs not have a good work-life balance is a surprise!

Or maybe, I'm ignorant about the medical field completely.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by am1m

Where I'm at now, I get to meet with some doctors in a hospital setting. Had an interesting conversation with a doctor the other day. He wanted to leave the hospital he'd been working at for the past few years because he wanted a better work-life balance. From what I understand, from his more senior colleagues, this is a good doctor, someone who did good things at his workplace. And this is a very prominent hospital, over 5 decades old.

There is a lot of pressure on doctors to bring more revenue. A friend of mine who was a leading specialist with an increasing acquisitive chain of hospitals, quit as his consulting/operative admission ratio was low. He avoided all surgical interventions at all costs.

Now he moved to private practice and uses a private hospital as a service provider to perform operations.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

I only enquire because at times, doctors with good specialties command a premium and many hospitals pander to their demands (like a niche skill in IT). And docs not have a good work-life balance is a surprise!

Or maybe, I'm ignorant about the medical field completely.

All this is purely tied to the revenue each doctor generates for a private hospital. As long as money is flowing in and the doctor is in agreement with the management, all is wonderful.

If revenue drops or if the doctor is not in agreement with the management, differences arise and management will act just as any other private enterprise leadership does.

Good Work-Life balance is just a by product in this equation.

[thanixravindran]

Looks like IT companies have sent proposal for 14 hour (12 hours shift + 2 hour OT) workday in IT/ITes sector to KA Government.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/karn...659-2024-07-21

So instead of 3 x 8 hour shift allowed, will it allow 2 x 12 hour shift?

Or

Is it in line with Narayan Murthy's 70 hour work week sermon for youngsters and attemp to make it legal?

Anyway, this proposal is a huge retrograde step by IT industry.

[condor]

Corporatization of Health Care, and conversion of the segment into an industry has been happening over quite some time now. A western approach, if I can say so. And there is pressure to bring in revenue.

It's a rare hospital that does not focus on the revenue part. Wife works with one such hospital, and a recent internal comment to some senior folks there was that the parent organization does not need the hospital to bring in revenue to support the parent. Wife is happy to be with that hospital, and has been there for almost 6 years now.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

It Looks like IT companies have sent a proposal for 14 hour (12 hours shift + 2-hour OT) workday in IT/ITes sector to the KA Government.

Is it in line with Narayan Murthy's 70-hour work week sermon for youngsters and attempt to make it legal?

Yes, it is a kind of legalisation of an illegal practice which has been there ever since laptops were provided to employees. As long as people with outdated thoughts work in private sectors, these outdated thoughts will exist in the name of productivity.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/karn...659-2024-07-21
....
Anyway, this proposal is a huge retrograde step by IT industry.

From the link

According to the present labour laws, 9 hours is the permitted working hour duration, while an additional hour is allowed as overtime.
The new proposal by the IT sector says, "employees in the IT/ITeS/BPO sector may be required or allowed to work more than 12 hours a day and not exceeding 125 hours in three continuous months".

Based on the report you shared, there seems to be some capping on the total number of hours. The report lacks clarity on this.
Knowing the pressure managements to improve margins, as you mention it probably will be a retrograde step, messing up an employee's work life balance.
News reports like these will push more employees to get unionized, and from then on it is will be a downward spiral of conflict between the management & unions. Not a good sign for an industry in flux.

Originally Posted by deehunk

Yes, it is a kind of legalisation of an illegal practice which has been there ever since laptops were provided to employees. As long as people with outdated thoughts work in private sectors, these outdated thoughts will exist in the name of productivity.

Probably directly impacts jobs in the BPO/IT support?
For people involved in S/W development atleast, the concept of shifts did not exist and people used to work in a cadence of regular hours during the beginning of a dev cycle and burning the midnight oil close to the release/deadline. I can't see that changing.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Looks like IT companies have sent proposal for 14 hour (12 hours shift + 2 hour OT) workday in IT/ITes sector to KA Government.

I don't know the specifics here so I may be over-reacting. But if this is true this goes beyond IT industry/Karnataka. This is shameless human exploitation on the lines of slavery. A central body like National Human Rights Commission should look at this. People behind this should be named and shamed. If these people run companies a thorough investigation for labor exploitation should be conducted against them and if found guilty stringent action take against them.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

So instead of 3 x 8 hour shift allowed, will it allow 2 x 12 hour shift?

Or

Is it in line with Narayan Murthy's 70 hour work week sermon for youngsters and attemp to make it legal?

Anyway, this proposal is a huge retrograde step by IT industry.

I believe there is a cap of 125 hours for 3 weeks which is inline with 8 hours a day. So if someone works for 12 hours, he/she can take it easy on another day.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by Guna

I believe there is a cap of 125 hours for 3 weeks which is inline with 8 hours a day. So if someone works for 12 hours, he/she can take it easy on another day.

I don't think so. In general, IT companies operate on 40 hours per week billing model which gives 160 hours per month of 4 weeks. For a quarter, it will be 480 to 500 hours.

My assumption of 125 hours is it is just Over Time. 2 hours per day translates to 10 hours per week, 40 hours per month and approximately 120 hours per quarter. This is above the proposed 12 hour work day which translates to 60 hours per week and so on. This is 50% increase from current level.

Hope mainstream and social media picks this up and gives some clarity on the proposal.