[girishv]

Last week Govt of India approved of setting up of 8th pay commission which is expected to benefit close to 1 crore central government employees of the country. The 7th pay commission was implemented in 2016 and hence the 8th pay commission may be implemented from 2026. It is expected that many of the states will follow it with their own implementations. The employees are expecting an increase of at least 30% raise in their salaries considering the earlier commissions.

There are two sides to this news. One is from the employees side (which I belong to) and the other is general population who are affected by the resulting inflation. At the same time, I did see a significant shift at most of the central govt offices who shifted from office vehicles to personal vehicles. This shift may not be directly related to more money in the pocket, but in my opinion due to the vehicle allowance which got merged with city allowance.

Reason for starting this thread is to hear the pros and cons of having a pay commission at all. The opinion is, when there is Dearness allowance for taking care of the inflation. Since, I am one of the beneficiaries, I would like to hear from the other members.

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by girishv

There are two sides to this news. One is from the employees side (which I belong to) and the other is general population who are affected by the resulting inflation...Since, I am one of the beneficiaries, I would like to hear from the other members.

We need an Indian version of DOGE. But if they can still manage the fiscal deficits, this should be okay.

Having said that, I really appreciate your candour to put up an issue which is beneficial to you but can still see the detriments on the general public.

[anjan_c2007]

The Central Pay Commissions , DA raises or any other increases in pay (like interim relief) or allowances attract the maximum publicity in India and even abroad. Whereas for central and state PSU's and for many flourishing private companies their pay and perk rises get almost nil to subdued publicity in the media.

As a result, the pay commissions and pay and allowance rises, attract a lot of prying eyes from the general public and also from critics. Well, my heart goes out to the underprivileged, unemployed, deprived and wanting persons in the crores who also form a major part of India's population.

But as far as central pay commissions records show, having been a part of quite a few, plus having observed my Dad and relatives' comments and criticisms, I must confess that the Sixth Pay Commission which submitted its report sometime in 2008 has given the maximum benefits to central employees. Other pay commissions just fixed the prevailing dearness allowance rates to the basic pay, evolving their fixation formulae to decide the pay scales. Yes, a raise in the basic pay raises all the allowances that are based on the basic pay.

And I will quote Mr J.R.D. Tata who used to say that government employees are underpaid and are vested with immense financial and administrative powers. Corruption happens owning to the meagre pay these employees draw, according to him. Perhaps he was partly right. Just see the well paid Group C, B and A employees now. Group C employees afford a Brezza or Creta class mini SUV today with their fully honest means.

But we still see many such well paid employees who are also corrupt. Even the CBI is raiding its own officers! There are stringent Central Services Conduct Rules but still we find these classes of employees blatantly indulging in corruption to illegally enrich themselves, getting trapped, suspended, acquitted or dismissed after the official enquiry, nearly always followed by the delinquent employee knocking the doors of the judicuary.

It has been so since donkeys years and shall continue to be so with many of us not seeing any changes during our lifetimes.

[Theyota]

I am all for good pay for govt officials. My hope is that good pay results in low corruption. 6th commission made govt pays competitive. But it had zero impact on corruption and fact is that corruption has increased and has crept into unimaginable places in day to day life of a common man. Our culture has been corrupted. People boast about the potential to earn by corrupt means.

[paras211]

There is good corruption and bad corruption. Government employees have to be paid more much more it should be a matter of pride to be a govt employee not for the wrong reasons but for the right ones only then corruption can be reduced , it can never be removed unless all processes are completely autonomous.

[ToThePoint]

I am neutral on this whole pay commission thing and never paid attention to be frank. My parents (retired teachers) have benefitted from the 6'th pay comission even though they (teachers category) were the last ones on boarded couple years later. Anyways...

Coming to corruption, I feel the reason of corruption being lowly wages is a thing of the past. Corruption has evolved into a mindset, an attitude - that I (part of the process), by virtue of power bestowed on me by the chair (kursi) can make your (common man) life miserable if you don't bow down before my powers (by way of kickbacks or loading up pockets so to say). And that mindset/attitude is something no amount of salary hike can take away with it, it will remain forever!!!

[avisidhu]

Originally Posted by ToThePoint

....
Coming to corruption, I feel the reason of corruption being lowly wages is a thing of the past. Corruption has evolved into a mindset, an attitude - that I (part of the process), by virtue of power bestowed on me by the chair (kursi) can make your (common man) life miserable if you don't bow down before my powers (by way of kickbacks or loading up pockets so to say). And that mindset/attitude is something no amount of salary hike can take away with it, it will remain forever!!!

I must say though, people with govt. salaries specially if husband/wife are both employed, enjoy very good lifestyles in India. Specially in tier 2-3 cities or smaller places, they have more than enough to lead a good life. And goes without saying that typically they enjoy enhanced social status too. Youngsters thinking of career options should keep such opportunities on their radar, rather than blindly following the herd and moving abroad.

[Quoter]

There are numerous studies which show that government employees are overpaid at the junior levels and underpaid at the senior levels. The fact is that if you are a driver in the government of India, you will be in the top 10% of our population in terms of income and lifestyle (considering only the legal income). This is what leads to a craze for government jobs.

Government needs to rapidly address this imbalance vis-a-vis the overall income level of the country including the perks given to government employees vs what is available to an average citizen in terms of social security (Health insurance, pension etc.)

Unfortunately, given the lack of independent oversight (govt. employees fix their own salaries in the pay commission), I do not have much hope as a tax payer that this imbalance would be addressed anytime soon.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Quoter

Government needs to rapidly address this imbalance vis-a-vis the overall income level of the country including the perks given to government employees vs what is available to an average citizen in terms of social security (Health insurance, pension etc.)

This is the major differential between a Govt employee vs ...well...let them call non-Govt employees.

The unlimited medical security & pension is a huge plus compared to any other benefit. A sudden medical scare has the potential to wipe out one's entire life savings. Even if one survives such an episode, future cash flows are impacted severely for those with no such security. In case one doesn't make it (esp if one was the sole breadwinner or the person in house who did the financial planning), it will be much worse.
Even if you buy your own insurance, first you shell out quite a big sum for the premium, especially when you are on the wrong side of the age scale and even then you aren't sure how much will be the actual payout by the insurer in case of such an emergency.
To rub salt on it, Govt. imposes an 18% GST on the premium of social security products like health and life insurance if you try to secure yourself by your own taxed money.

There is a big disbalance between the private and the Govt sector in these terms which need to be addressed. The pay commissions also bring high levels of inflation with itself which is a double edged sword for all those who are not under the purview of the pay commissions.

Also agree with your another thought about the lucrative pay at the junior levels compared to higher levels. Another big inequaliser.

[robby0707]

Originally Posted by Quoter

There are numerous studies which show that government employees are overpaid at the junior levels and underpaid at the senior levels. The fact is that if you are a driver in the government of India, you will be in the top 10% of our population in terms of income and lifestyle (considering only the legal income). This is what leads to a craze for government jobs.

Government needs to rapidly address this imbalance vis-a-vis the overall income level of the country including the perks given to government employees vs what is available to an average citizen in terms of social security (Health insurance, pension etc.)

Unfortunately, given the lack of independent oversight (govt. employees fix their own salaries in the pay commission), I do not have much hope as a tax payer that this imbalance would be addressed anytime soon.

As a govt employee, this is something that i can agree to. I had started my career at the young age of 22 and the in- hand salary at that point of time was quite high. It’s been 10 years now but I’ve realised that the increase in salary is not commensurate to the job profile or responsibility one really handles nor is it commensurate to the pvt sector counterparts.
However, pension and job security remains a very strong point for govt jobs.

[twincharger_gt]

The whole notion of a pay commission is deeply flawed. IMHO, pay scale and allowances should not be based on seniority and level alone. All pay increases should be performance and merit-based, with criteria fixed and transparent. One should allow those who outperform jumping ranks and given compensation appropriately and not wait for a pay commission to get their due. However, with the current state of affairs, all this is wishful thinking.

[manjubp]

While only a few has opportunities in the central government to engage in corruption, we tend to generalize every employee as corrupt. Many employees in PSUs, organizations like DRDO, ISRO, railways, the armed forces, and institutions like AIIMS and IITs are underpaid. To attract top talent, a pay revision is essential, which is why graduates from top institutions often prefer private sector jobs. And anyone who thinks there’s no corruption in private companies should seriously reconsider their believes .

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by Quoter

There are numerous studies which show that government employees are overpaid at the junior levels and underpaid at the senior levels. The fact is that if you are a driver in the government of India, you will be in the top 10% of our population in terms of income and lifestyle.

These numerous studies are made by people with colonial mentality. They are the ones who would like to maintain their class differentiation and want to have exponential difference between their own earnings and the lower levels. They are the ones who are highly dependent on servants and are afraid that they won't be able to afford them in a few years.

I think government is one of the few organizations in India where the pay differentiation is done fairly for different levels. A large percentage of private industry in India exploits blue collar labor. Take IT industry that makes billions in profit as an example. A security guard working 60 hours a week earns barely 25K per month whereas a junior engineer in the same company with 5 years of experience could be making 5-10 times of that. You won't see this in developed world no matter how capitalist is that country.

[SinghBHP]

Though I'm a Non-Govt employee - I strongly feel that Govt employees should be paid fairly and higher than private employees.
1 - Their work directly impacts the general public , implementing government policies and process. When they work efficiently it make Citizens lives better.
2 - Better pay means less motivation for corruption.
3 - They are directly responsible for nation building.

In the IDEAL world :
Govt Jobs should be highest paying with increments based on how efficiently they are delivering at local level by taking feedback from citizens.

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by Theyota

These numerous studies are made by people with colonial mentality. They are the ones who would like to maintain their class differentiation and want to have exponential difference between their own earnings and the lower levels. They are the ones who are highly dependent on servants and are afraid that they won't be able to afford them in a few years.

I think government is one of the few organizations in India where the pay differentiation is done fairly for different levels. A large percentage of private industry in India exploits blue collar labor. Take IT industry that makes billions in profit as an example. A security guard working 60 hours a week earns barely 25K per month whereas a junior engineer in the same company with 5 years of experience could be making 5-10 times of that. You won't see this in developed world no matter how capitalist is that country.

You have hit the nail on the head my friend. I think it makes perfect sense for the high pay compression, to use a technical term, in government jobs. A minimum level of pay is required to meet existing cost of living and the fact that entry level pay in the govt sector, is much higher than corresponding jobs in the private sector, can lead to infer that there is some pay equity involved here, when you consider that entry level in the much vaunted IT companies in India haven't moved much in a decade.

There is some heartburn among folks who do not see their pay move much over the course of their careers in the govt, especially when they compare this to pay in the private sector. But it is important to understand that for most jobs, which are not specialized in nature and are bureaucratic, there cannot be an exponential increase in pay as the incremental value they are delivering via promotions etc may not also be much. Think about it, do you think the obscene pay that the senior management commands in the corporate world is justified? Not always, especially seen in the context of all the fiascos we have seen in the last two decades. Of course, there are certain specialized jobs which can only be done by a handful of jobs. These are in a minority though.

It is fallacy to think that pay decisions in the private sphere is 'scientific' and 'market driven' when it can be as much subjective, perhaps much more in the public sector. Corporate managers can and do make pay decisions on their own and justify it after the fact by using job studies and benchmarking. The public sector is far more accountable to enquiries and the decision making needs to be more transparent and equitable.