[Raghu M]

A very good thread. I can share my experience here. I work as a VP for a professional service company. I am not a tech guy but I manage teams that specialize in tech and data research (equity research). While I hate to attest to the topic, it's what the reality is right now. Below are my observations.

1. GenZ has no clue of what their academics are. The recent pass outs (MBAs mostly) most likely can't answer the questions - what are your major subjects? Elaborate more on your internship/project. Their CGPA will most likely be above 8. I can't imagine how is this even possible

2. Ask them basics and fundamental questions about the subject and they will have no clue. And this is not just a few people but 9 out of 10 will give you a blank stare as if that question is not even relevant

3. The interview barely runs for 5 mins and they raise their hand with a question. It's the golden question - do you have work from home. When I say, it depends on the project, you can clearly see their expression of disinterest and the urge to leave the interview. We have a mild hybrid where teams are asked to come in one week every month but that's also a huge challenge for them. They want to sit in their village/towns but not come to Hyd even for a week

4. The salary is never going to be satisfactory. We pay 20K fixed and allowances and incentives (not linked to performance) make up for around 15 to 20K additional. So, they have a take home of at least 35K but they seem to never be satisfied about it. I would jump at that no. if I were a fresher

5. The trainings are a pain. They have very little attention span, always keep checking mobiles and don't grasp the basics. At least 20% flunk their certifications and we have to redo them

6. No interest to grow or upscale at all. This is one common point across the board. They log in, log out and create a small group with whom they hang out. No one is interested to understand the performance metrics, the production graphs, reports or individual ranking. They have zero inclination to excel or be good at work and compete

7. They compare salaries with the IT company and keep cribbing. The work life balance at our firm is very good. It's 8 hour work and then log out. Even an extra hour (rare occurrence) of work will get you an OT but that is no incentive for them. They don't value the work life balance. Does that mean, they can stretch and be ambitious? the answer is a plain NO

8. They abscond without notice, they don't even care about serving notice to collect the experience letter and other exit formalities. I see many students with relatively poor backgrounds. Dad working in the fields, mothers taking care of livestock etc. but that is no motivation for them to excel and take care of their families. I really feel bad for such employees, they just quit one fine day and don't seem to care for their parents who have gone through hardships to get them their Masters degree. The sense of responsibility is clearly missing

9. After one year, they expect a minimum of 30 to 40% of increases. When we explain them how things work, they react as if the whole logic makes no sense and get disoriented. That's generally the start of their whole exit process. Will they make better by quitting? No, they take up jobs that are tougher and end up complaining

10. It's a huge challenge to share feedback. They can't take it positively. The feedback points are mostly like - you are not available for calls, we see you always away, your breaks are too long, you are using your mobile too frequently. They come up with excuses and try to defend

There are more but I think these are the bigger observations. It's not generalizing but the whole feedback has been below average for the GenZs. None of them in the last 5 years in our firm have been able to make a mark and show promise.

[ninjatalli]

Here's an interesting related trend from Japan with regards to GenZ

Agencies for Japanese workers resignations

One in six workers has engaged a firm to hand in notice for them, as younger workers reject traditional work ethic
...
The firm, one of an estimated 100 companies across Japan offering similar services, has so far received 350,000 online consultations and completed 20,000 resignations.

Experts have attributed the trend to a generational shift in attitudes towards work, accelerated by the disruption to jobs and lifestyles caused by the Covid-19 pandemic, when working from home prompted many people to reconsider their work-life balance.
...
People in their 20s account for 60% of Momuri users, including a large number of new graduates. According to the labour ministry, more than 30% of recent graduates leave their jobs within three years – a figure that would have been unimaginable during Japan’s postwar economic miracle.

-------------------

Originally Posted by Raghu M

There are more but I think these are the bigger observations. It's not generalizing but the whole feedback has been below average for the GenZs. None of them in the last 5 years in our firm have been able to make a mark and show promise.

Interesting to see these observations. What's your dataset like over the last 5 years that confirm to some or all of these observations? A rough indication or a range of employee numbers if you could share.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

There are more but I think these are the bigger observations. It's not generalizing but the whole feedback has been below average for the GenZs. None of them in the last 5 years in our firm have been able to make a mark and show promise.

Thanks, that is quite an exhaustive list. What do you say about the argument that this is merely generational gap? Many have argued on this thread that every generation gets such rap going back to antiquity? Or do you feel something is very different about Gen-Z compared to earlier generations?

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Interesting to see these observations. What's your dataset like over the last 5 years that confirm to some or all of these observations? A rough indication or a range of employee numbers if you could share.

The firm is around 500 employees with at least 10 to 20 joiners every quarter (along with exits of course). That means at least 45 to 55 employees (ballpark) over an year. I think that is more than a sample for 5 years (the sample of over 200 employees) to test and share observations.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Thanks, that is quite an exhaustive list. What do you say about the argument that this is merely generational gap? Many have argued on this thread that every generation gets such rap going back to antiquity? Or do you feel something is very different about Gen-Z compared to earlier generations?

I get the generational gap thing. But at the end of the day, someone has to produce, work and get paid right. If the hesitance is to even work, then it's a big problem. The main reason for this is (in my opinion), the need to get a job and take care of self/family is missing. The urge to settle down (only work front) and make a mark is absolutely not present. The impression that by doing an MBA will put them straight in the middle management is also a big reason. I have leads/managers who understand their psych and try to gel with them. They find it hard to understand their thought process, it's heavily influenced and hardly practical.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Thanks, that is quite an exhaustive list. What do you say about the argument that this is merely generational gap? Many have argued on this thread that every generation gets such rap going back to antiquity? Or do you feel something is very different about Gen-Z compared to earlier generations?

Thought experiment.

I showed the content of the post to my father, gave no additional context, and asked for his opinion.

Except the WFH part that is irrelevant to his field, he says everything else could've been written about his new recruits throughout his 4-decade career, and what those same recruits of his now say about the young ones they're hiring.

Appa is a textile technologist. Spent his entire career as far away from any sort of desk job as one could possibly imagine. It also never was (and still isn't) a glamorous industry with 'cushy' jobs, and usually attracted the 'needy' kind, not the entitled 'don't really need to earn a living to survive' kind, and yet, same complaints held true.

Make what you will of it.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Except the WFH part that is irrelevant to his field, he says everything else could've been written about his new recruits throughout his 4-decade career, and what those same recruits of his now say about the young ones they're hiring.

And about remote work- 2 decades ago, when I was looking for jobs, I wouldn't even look at a company that had a 6-day week. Simply because almost all IT companies had transitioned to a 5-day week by then. But if you asked my dad, he'd say I was lazy or entitled for looking only at companies that gave 2 days off.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by Precision

- I have had to hire over 20 site engineers/supervisors, both Civil and Mechanical Eng. freshers
- They were forced into Civil/Mechanical Engineering because they could not get into IT/Computer science. So no interest or drive for their chosen profession.
- friends are working in IT with air conditioned offices
- desire to do an MBA and get into an office job is Priority Uno
- not interested in acquiring skills or experience in construction
- "Lets take a loan and migrate" trend
- the draw of writing a bank test and joining a bank
- Absolutely low patience and cant take criticism
- First warning; sorry sir wont happen again. Second warning; I quit.

I am sure my predicament is industry specific.

Your predicament is across all industries. I've had the privilege of working in manufacturing, IT services, projects (both EPC and Consulting). My current role takes me to multiple companies and folks there keep complaining on similar lines. Here are my two cents

1. The issue stems from changing lifestyles, and a shift in value systems, priorities; sooner one accepts this as reality, the better
2. Transition from academics to industry is only spoken about but no institute that I know of has ever been serious about it. Conditioning of final year students before they embark on jobs was never handled well enough. In fact, I believe this conditioning must start at high school and drip irrigation is needed all the way post that even after they join industry. One example of good conditioning is the Armed Forces. My Dad was an officer several decades ago, and I still have many friends in the forces. There is some erosion in values, but the core conditioning of manpower is very visible.
3. Freshers are by and large very sensitive; if they haven't been mentally conditioned during their academic years, the onus is on their buddies and managers to help them understand that everyone can't get the same life, and that the tougher the life one faces early in life would make it that much easier to manage tough situations later. This needs to be constantly emphasized. On my part, I can say that I've handled this role with utmost sincerity and continue to do so.
4. Specifically w.r.t Civil engineering, it is one of the most dirty and demanding jobs, especially in EPC projects - non ideal conditions in mud, slush, under the hot sun, with makeshift sheds for seating, no proper food, no fixed meal or sleep timings etc. It is normal for any engineer to take 2 steps back when presented with this prospect.

On a side note, please see if getting Diplomas (with the zest to learn) on board and grooming them works.

Originally Posted by DevendraG

lack the foresight of their future careers and hence don’t plan well enough

Quite true. Very few plan their careers, and I'm not one of them.

Originally Posted by Raghu M

- they want to sit in their village/towns but not come to Hyd even for a week
- salary is never going to be satisfactory
- very little attention span, don't grasp the basics
- zero inclination to excel or be good at work and compete
- abscond without notice, they don't even care about serving notice
- expect a minimum of 30 to 40% of increases
- can't take feedback positively

Raghu Garu, I completely understand the points above. I had a very difficult time balancing my expectations vs the climate on the production floor when I was in IT services. Although not related to this thread, some points here (Infosys, TCS & Wipro suffered 25% attrition last quarter) may be relevant.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by am1m

And about remote work- 2 decades ago, when I was looking for jobs, I wouldn't even look at a company that had a 6-day week. Simply because almost all IT companies had transitioned to a 5-day week by then. But if you asked my dad, he'd say I was lazy or entitled for looking only at companies that gave 2 days off.

Gen Z has some specific generational challenges (I spoke about it in my first post on this thread, and elsewhere too), but the biggest elephant in the room is the same it's ever been.

We have an education system (and I don't mean just the formal channels) unfit for purpose. It's been 'modernised', made fancier and expensive, but it still does precious little towards making young people actually employable on day 1. Hard and soft skills, both missing.

Nothing to do with any specific industry either, it's valid wherever you look. From primary education to vocational training ITIs to white-collar professional institutions. The dedicated ones are as clueless as the ones skating by and collecting a degree. Just one example, it's possible to get an electrical engineering degree in India without knowing how to read the colored bands on a resistor, or tell it apart from a capacitor. Ask one of these 'engineers' to swap out a blown fuse or switch in their home, and watch them fumble.

We can and should address all aspects, including specific generational ones, but it's about time we started fixing the crux of the problem. A person with the 'right' attitude and the 'wrong' training might be easier to mould but will still be a disaster productively, and productivity is the end goal of work.

Give them right information and tools before feeling justified to judge them. Applies to all generations, not just Z. Same mindset required when dealing with older people who are immensely knowledgeable and experienced, but struggle with modern technology. One of my biggest frustrations in my field of work is just how much accumulated experience and expertise is being discarded based on that one factor alone.

[Ulysses]

The current state of affairs has stem from the institutionalization of mediocrity (and active discouragement of meritocracy) which is the hallmark of post-modernism (also known as woke-ism). Basically, what the GenZ see around them is that at one hand utterly undesirable people are getting all sort of opportunities served in their plate (through various institutional policies) and on the other hand, some other people are lavishly enjoying the fruit of doing nothing (no work and all pay) in the form of "secure" jobs.
This is the frame of mind, in which the GenZ is growing up and no wonder they have developed no interest in doing anything productive or making an effort in learning, rather they feed their ego by living in a fantasy world of social media, overnight billionaires and all.
Some say (may be a conspiracy theory, may be not) that this is a deliberate move to make the future generation a generation of mentally mummified slaves of a few powerful elites. A quick investigation into how many people in India today are living on doles (freebies) would give a good view of this precarious condition.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

4. The salary is never going to be satisfactory. We pay 20K fixed and allowances and incentives (not linked to performance) make up for around 15 to 20K additional. So, they have a take home of at least 35K but they seem to never be satisfied about it. I would jump at that no. if I were a fresher

The best guys in the industry are making maybe 10-40L as fresh grads.

I may be wrong, but 25K is what an uber / private driver can make very easily these days. And any enterprising fresh grad with the skill sets that you are asking of can make a lot more with some sort of side hustles / upskilling. Why should they spend their energy in trying to deliver outsized results by going above and beyond in a job with linear growth and a blue-collar wage?

Working in a 3-5L job with no potential for exponential growth is not going to attract the best talent of the industry, and perhaps that's why some of the opinions in this thread are coming down quite heavily on the "Gen-Z" crowd.

My organization hires from the best colleges and pays a decent starting package. We are just not seeing the kind of problems that are being portrayed in this thread as being "Gen-Z" specific. Lack of attention and addiction to mobiles / social media is a worldwide phenomenon that's affecting all ages, not just Gen-Z.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Applies to all generations, not just Z.

Sorry, I don't buy this. My job/profession requires me to look for patterns and I am not seeing the pattern here. I have been around for a long time and I don't recall this happening with earlier generations. It is not within the standard deviation.

Originally Posted by Ulysses

The current state of affairs has stem from the institutionalization of mediocrity (and active discouragement of meritocracy) which is the hallmark of post-modernism (also known as woke-ism).

I am no fan of wokeism, but I don't think it has led to this. Social media has exposed Gen-Z to a very virtual/fake universe since adolescence and changed their expectation in real life. It is like a gamer who commands vast armies in virtual worlds, but in real life is a nobody. Not a happy situation.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Sorry, I don't buy this...

Don't buy what? That judging people for something they're ill-equipped to handle isn't very helpful? That was the context of that comment.

[Mr.Ogre]

I don't think it's fair to blame Gen Z for anything. As someone in the previous posts mentioned, it is most likely the way managers manage people.

I have been fortunate enough to work with Gen Z in my current job why previous job, and I can see the same hunger and dedication in their work as I had when I was younger.

But also I see the management mature enough to understand and manage younger generation.

Sure, wfh is a sticky point, but I don't think it's just the Gen Z who are reluctant to give up the idea of wfh. Even people my age and older frown upon when asked to come to office on a regular basis.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Don't buy what? That judging people for something they're ill-equipped to handle isn't very helpful? That was the context of that comment.

That would be the strangest interpretation of what I said. In fact, I totally believe in training people to the task for few months at least before asking them to do that task. I am saying I don't attribute this to generational thing. I don't recall hearing how companies are quickly firing x-gen employees or millennial employees.

As the most prolific contributor this old thread since 15 years, I don't expect any surprises on the employability front. We mainly look for trainability while hiring, and then train them, mentor them to unleash their true potential. Since ours is a very small setup, we don't hire in high numbers. Thanks to that we can scrutinize the candidates very carefully and pick out the gems. But those who we had to reject in recent years often left us troubled. This was lot more prevalent in BE graduates compared to non-BE graduates. I haven't hired a single BE graduate in the last two years. Prior to that I hadn't hired a single non-BE graduate for any IT role. I still don't really understand what is happening here. But I cannot attribute this to the generational thing since this trend is very different than before. Well outside the standard deviation.