[ValarMorghulis]

If Mr. NRN is so keen on building the nation, heck why only a 70 hour workweek?

I say make it a 90 hour workweek. Just ask Mr. NRN to hire two folks and make them each work 45 hours a week. Any which way, he is still paying new joiners the same they paid them in 2010.
The country will have
1. Fewer folks looking for jobs,
2. Lower unemployment rate,
3. More people in workforce,
4. More engineers building for the nation.

Win win for him and the nation

[ZenMaster]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

So NRN is right to the extent that Infosys could not have been built with a 9 to 5 work regime but all his employees do not want to build an Infosys. I think that's where he misses the point.

There is no doubt that the kind of success NRN achieved cannot be achieved without him having sacrificed a big portion of his personal life and working "70 hours a week".

But like you said not everyone wants to change the world.

That said, the problem the "younger generation" have with his "success mantras" is that he expects us to work 70 hrs for people like him to achieve their goals while they only pay us for "our services" and unceremoniously fire them "to increase efficiency and align with the company's AI first strategy for the next decade.

Every entrepreneur is willing to work not 70 but even more hours to achieve his or her own dream ..to build their own Infosys.

Or maybe such billionaire nation builders can add those who work 70 hours for their company into his will. to inherit some of the spoils of his success which the hardworkers contributed to.

[DigitalOne]

Meanwhile, someone who probably triggers your emotion more than NRN does has posted new job posting - 80 hr work, lots of enemies, and no salary :





Source

Source

ps - Not meant for political discussion.

[Mustang Sammy]

IMHO there is no one size fits all Indian corporate culture. There seem to be a few broad categories of firms:
1. Public companies that are fully run by professionals: Tata, L&T, Infosys etc come to mind. These companies tend to be fairly progressive and imbibe latest best practices, but still retain an element of hierarchy. I would categorize the Indian arms of old-school MNCs like Hindustan Unilever, J&J, etc in the same category.
2. Promoter/family controlled companies: These are the so-called "Lala" companies like Reliance, Vedanta etc.. These are extremely hierarchical as per feedback received from friends who have worked there.
3. Indian arms of Tech MNCs: Google, MSFT, Apple etc in India make a strong effort to copy the HQ way of working here as well, including flexible hours, amenities and a less top down way of working.
4. Indian tech startups: These are strongly influenced by the founders of course, but do try to bring in some elements of Western tech work culture in order to attract top tier talent.

[subraiyr]

I think we all need to take NRN's message and put some context around it
When NRN worked probably 90 hours a week, it was in the early 90s. The environment was very different.

Population: India's population in the 90s was sub 1 billion. In 1990, it was about 800mn and the working population was around 30 mn. This is only skilled. The unskilled population is not included here. As companies like Infosys started to pick up momentum, they needed a larger workforce and did not have a readymade workforce. The existing workforce picked up the slack by working longer hours

Motivation: Combine the above with the workforce's motivation. My take on this is as follows.
Employment in India in the early days was considered to provide job security. The 1960s and 70s were when the industrial revolution spiked in India. Employment was hierarchically driven which meant that one was respectful to their supervisor. This taught a bit of fear-based culture and people stuck to their jobs. While job security was the key, it was driven by fear of the supervisor and management. The 1980s and 90s were about loyalty. Job security was important but was seen in the context of employees not being afraid but being loyal to their organization. With privatization, new firms and new jobs came through. There was a sense in employees to ride this new wave and make it their own success story. Also, wealth creation started with many new firms going public and employees making good money. Given this, employees did not mind working extra hours as long as they saw success in wealth creation. Beyond 2000, as Indians started traveling, they came in close contact with different work cultures. This changed or rather shaped the way we started thinking about jobs. We saw how the Western world treated their employees, and standard work hours and over time became entrenched in conversations. This brought about the fact that 40 hours were the standard work norm across the developed world and as we aspire to move from developing to developed world tag, we should start picking this up as well. Cut to the next decade and beyond, employment avenues changed. Traditional work such as manufacturing, and technology was key, and new work also came into being. Work types such as arts, media, people development, health, and fitness started increasing. This caused people to relook at job security as a critical factor. A point to be noted here is also that, Gen Z had parents who were economically strong and were able to support them for a bit longer, allowing them to find their favorite employment. Therefore, the need changed from job security to job experience.

Infrastructure: India was coming out to face privatization largely. Earlier infra was crumbling and there was an urgent need to build and rebuild. People were forced to travel longer and in tougher situations to make ends meet. Therefore, they did not mind-stretching. As infrastructure improved, newer ways of working too developed. With the large capacity network, people could work away from the office and this meant that they could complete work quicker and faster. Again, this brought about a change in work hours in the new age

Labour policies: As we all traveled, explored other cultures, and learned more about work, policies too started changing. There was a clear push towards better work standards governed by better policies which was global but tuned towards the Indian context. This again put curbs on employers to effect longer work hours, lesser leaves, OT, etc.

Changing Expectations of Employee : As said earlier, employees now look at life experiences as critical to living. It was no longer about wealth creation alone. People are now happy spending money on travel and experiences rather than owning houses, more so owning assets. Again, this trend has grown post Covid where one is looking to seize the day and enjoy it rather than be worried about the extended future
The above is not yet structured. In the spirit of continuing the conversation, I am not writing it as a report or a thesis, but as some random thoughts. So please pardon me if it seems incomplete.

[am1m]

Even a couple of decades ago, NRN was famous for giving an opinion on everything- I remember reading an article from at least 15 years ago where a journalist had calculated how often the big three- Azim Premji, Ratan Tata, and NRN would talk about anything other than their companies/industries. Guess who came up on top. (Azim Premji was famous for not saying anything to the media unless it was related to Wipro.)

But, to be fair to NRN, he's probably not looking for controversy, and believes what he says. Good for him. But what floated his boat (or IPO) need not work/apply to all.

Anyway, while there is the tendency to glorify our ancestors' work ethic in hindsight, the reality I remember was quite different. If anything, as a child, I saw the adults around me have a far better work-life balance than those today from the same socio-economic bracket. All our parents got home much before 6pm. Yes Saturdays were working days, but not a single vacation had to be cancelled or rescheduled because of work commitments. Once on vacation, of course there was no chance of their bosses calling/texting/e-mailing for the week/two weeks. And in Bangalore at least, god save you if you tried to interrupt either public or private sector employees during lunch!

Finally, working as hard as they did, and most households had only one parent working, they were in a position to raise and educate two children in good schools, build a house and retire comfortably. To be able to do those things, my wife and I would have to work at least twice as hard, and I think those who do today are working harder to just have the same quality of life.

[Samegoodkid]

People would not have been so upset had Elon Musk said the same thing. It would have been equated to how "working hard is so cool".

[warrioraks]

Working hard like many other virtues is a romanticized notion. Telling people to work hard is like asking people to be ethical, honest, patriotic <insert your favorite attribute here> etc. etc.

The fact is people will work hard when they are motivated by their inner voice. Motivating them through incentives, punishments, purpose or fear is the only way. Otherwise why would someone in today's world leave the comfort of their couch and Netflix/Instagram to go the extra mile?

[xcentrk]

For all the people who are defending NRN's statement saying that his opinions are based on the way he was raised/worked. It is not right to encourage or justify such statements on toxic work culture. No matter who said it.

If people want to work hard, they do without any push from others. And if people want to have a relaxed lifestyle, what is the harm? Why is it that every employee has to work 10 hours a day and still get same salary with meagre appraisal. Then why work hard? What are we going to achieve from working 10+ hours a day everyday?

Let people decided what they want and how they are going to do. IMHO, a company that doesn't incentivize their employees for hard work, doesn't have the right to say anything about work-life balance and work hours.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Mod Note: I have added a poll. Please vote:

Attachment 2655846

Those not eligible to vote can view the poll results by clicking on this link:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...in-reason.html

About time to add an option, "Work life balance" or may be just, "Wanted to have a life" considering the expectations of some in Corporate India.

In an undated video, Subrahmanyan said, "If I can make you work on Sundays, I will be more happy...What do you do sitting at home? How long can you stare at your wife?"

I'm shocked at the sexist, disparaging, tone-deaf, insulting remarks from the L&T Chairman. The man displayed a complete lack of self-awareness, empathy, leadership and commonsense. Guess what's worse than his remarks? He'll getaway with it in India with no consequences.

Source: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/tr...-12907711.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0HEzUciRYo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdVnid-Aas

According to the company’s recent corporate filings, the percentage increase in salaries of employees—excluding managerial personnel—for the group, which employs over 4 lakh people, was 1.74% in FY24. In contrast, managerial remuneration rose by 20.38%, as noted in the company’s FY24 annual report. Additionally, L&T, which follows a six-day work week, also maintains an Embraer ERJ-145 private jet, used by its top management, led by Chairman SN Subrahmanyan.

While the median salary of male L&T employees stood at Rs 9.77 lakh annually and the median salary of female employees stood at Rs 6.76 lakh, Subrahmanyan’s total compensation for FY24 stood at Rs 51.05 crore. His remuneration was 534 times the median pay of an L&T employee. Subrahmanyan and his wife, Meena Subrahmanyan, also received dividends of Rs 80 lakh and Rs 25 lakh, respectively, in FY24 from their shareholding in L&T stock.

Source:https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...-12907638.html

Modern-day slavery in display.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by kiku007

In an undated video, Subrahmanyan said, "If I can make you work on Sundays, I will be more happy...What do you do sitting at home? How long can you stare at your wife?"

I'm shocked at the sexist, disparaging, tone-deaf, insulting remarks from the L&T Chairman. The man displayed a complete lack of self-awareness, empathy, leadership and commonsense.

SNS, as he is better known in business circles, is a man of immense capability and competence. He is also by nature a bit bull headed, alpha male, take no prisoners kind of guy. People like him are outstanding at building great companies, creating employment and generating GDP but are yet to catch up with today's world of social media and sensitivity around statements. Such statements and attitudes amongst the top management are not new. They existed 50 years ago too. Just that then it did not get broadcasted nor were people so sensitive and ever ready to get affronted.

Also I believe these hours a week from either side are metaphorical numbers. Building two businesses across my career, one large and one mid-sized I worked on an average 50-hour weeks steady state. There were two or three occasions, handling the biggest business achievements of my career where my team & I would have done a 60-hour week for a few months on end and a 60-hour week for several days on several occasions but 70-hours or 90-hours a week steady state never ever. The human body and mind are not built that way.

SNS is not the sort to wilt under social media pressure and I expect his pugnaciousness isn't going to diminish either!

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by kiku007

He'll getaway with it in India with no consequences.

I read L&T stocks went down by 4% after the stuff hit the fan! His stock option would have gone down by a similar percent! There has been some kind of a lame statement from the company too. There is a lot of social media trolling and memes, his family must be quite embarrassed even if he is unfazed!

What are he and Narayanamurthy thinking? If I am given their kind of pay, I too will live at the office and will not go home at all!

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

SNS, as he is better known in business circles, is a man of immense capability and competence. He is also by nature a bit bull headed, alpha male, take no prisoners kind of guy. People like him are outstanding at building great companies, creating employment and generating GDP but are yet to catch up with today's world of social media and sensitivity around statements. Such statements and attitudes amongst the top management are not new. They existed 50 years ago too. Just that then it did not get broadcasted nor were people so sensitive and ever ready to get affronted.
!

Perhaps he should take some lessons on corporate communications, because what he said not only makes him a fodder for corporate humor but also embarrasses the company he represents, an engineering bellwether no less.

For someone who takes home a princely sum every year, many in his company, especially youngsters would want to know what plans the company has in place for them to also make the best of the 90 hour week our man demands, instead of ensuring fat pay for those at the top. Not everybody is sitting and staring at their wives in their spare time. Goes to show what he thinks of the very people he recruits.

[NomadSK]

Since this has turned into work related thing, let me put my 2 cents.

I have around 25 years of experience in downstream and upstream both in O&G. Of which 9 years have been in India and the rest in Norway/France/Middle East with different durations.

All these years, we have come to know we are at the company’s disposal as and when the company wants. They want us 36 hours in a day to be available, because our work demands so at times, that’s what professionals are supposed to do, both in India and outside. So far no problems. Here is what’s the difference in the work culture between India & Abroad, totally my take of the years I have spend in working in a singular industry. I will just touch it at the surface level and won’t dig deep;

India - “Sir culture”- seniors think they are doing favor to their subordinates by giving them promotion, sending them for training/seminars, approving their leaves, or any approvals. And they would call the engineers on weekends without having an iota of guilt, sometime would call only because they themselves don’t want to attend to the emergency or have some personal obligations. Sometimes would have to attend just for the sake of headcount. Leaving on time was looked down upon, so much so that I hated to spend a single minute at work after I’m done for the day. The more you worked late, the better employee you would be, in their eyes. Our work finished at 6, people used to leave work at 8/9pm. I used to leave gym, by the time they would be entering their homes and none batted an eyelid. No one thought there’s something wrong in this. It was always a bone of contention between me and my superiors. There won’t be any over-time culture, you are at companies disposal without proper micro policies. The top is so rotten and orthodox that they think the people at down level are either squandering money or time, becoz that’s how they have reached to the top level in the first place. Companies cars were used for household stuff, wife’s duties or some personal work and there was no shame attached, it was a proud thing to be bragged about during social gatherings. Work life balance was so much missing, that all one talks or discusses was about only work, since I lived in a township, I had to interact with employees only most of the times after work hours. Money was the “only” motivating factor for people to work, and almost everyone was in that rat race, how sad.

Abroad - it took me years to give up this idiotic “Sir culture”, I call my seniors with their first name and there’s no shame whatsoever, over here your rights are clearly defined. Sometimes I feel I’m a complete misfit now to work any more in Indian system. Work hours are well defined, any work after working hours is “requested” and “paid” for. It’s totally my time after working hours, no questions being asked. On weekend or after working hours, your senior would first apologize for disturbing you and then will hand over the duties with the emergency involved. They will first and foremost try not to call you unless there’s no way out. Polices at micro/macro are very well defined. There’s nothing called as grey, alls black and white (well mostly). It’s simple, if you deserve something, you get it, no questions being asked. We have a quote here going at work when we finish the day “another day another dollar” !! Some motivating factors here for employees are rock climbing, deep sea diving, making nitro cars, horse riding, mountaineering, iron mans, running, traveling, understanding cultures.

And then we have some honchos at top level with total disconnect with what today’s employees seek for. A few generation down the line, employees in India wouldn't trade time for money, then these honchos would know the value of everyone’s “time”.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

Abroad - it took me years to give up this idiotic “Sir culture”, I call my seniors with their first name and there’s no shame whatsoever, over here your rights are clearly defined. Sometimes I feel I’m a complete misfit now to work any more in Indian system. Work hours are well defined, any work after working hours is “requested” and “paid” for. It’s totally my time after working hours, no questions being asked. On weekend or after working hours, your senior would first apologize for disturbing you and then will hand over the duties with the emergency involved. They will first and foremost try not to call you unless there’s no way out. Polices at micro/macro are very well defined. There’s nothing called as grey, alls black and white (well mostly). It’s simple, if you deserve something, you get it, no questions being asked. We have a quote here going at work when we finish the day “another day another dollar” !! Some motivating factors here for employees are rock climbing, deep sea diving, making nitro cars, horse riding, mountaineering, iron mans, running, traveling, understanding cultures.

”.

This paragraph applies in India in lot (or some ?) of companies too. My manager calls (not to work, just to ask something) and says "is it good time, hope I am not disturbing, can we talk ?". It depends on companies and people (both upper/lower ranks).

But even abroad especially US, people do work when needed during out of office hours. As you said, the 'need' is mostly present during critical times.