[Turbohead]

Looking at the response from the India head to its employees, safe to say no lessons were learnt.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/...to_overworked/

Reaching out to line managers when they are the ones loading up the pressure is hilarious. Regarding ethics hotline and the likes, chances are it'll only backfire on you unless the actual damage to such an information in public is greater/it can cause potential business loss. I've seen my fellow employees getting abused after using such a hotline.

At best, I can imagine the immediate manger to get fired for the sake of PR or damage control.

During my last job hop, had a chance to interact with HR from 2 of the Big 4 organizations. They were very rude for someone representing the company to the outside world. The interviewers felt like dead men walking with no expressions. No work is worth dying for unless it significantly improves the lives of a lot of people around you.

[bobbyblr]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

Looking at the response from the India head to its employees, safe to say no lessons were learnt.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/...to_overworked/

In the email, he mentions that she died on 20th July 2024 and after 3 months we are getting the news.

[shankz]

People leave toxic managers - grinding out freshers in organisations is the new normal. When I joined my first company many years back - I was sent to a customer site to undergo "commando" training - almost 3 weeks of back-to-back day & night shifts. Although I had my college mate for support with me , the all-new environment - new city/new people/ new work pressure - was overwhelming at times - both physically and mentally. This incident alone made learn to say no in the corporate world. All 'yes sir' people are screwed royally over and over again.

Sad to see even after so many years, nothing has changed.

[AMG Power]

Letter from Perayil’s mother to Rqjiv Memani:

[R2D2]

My condolences to the bereaved parents. Losing a child is one of the worst tragedies a couple could face. It's happened in my family and I have seen 1st hand what the poor parents have gone through. It's horrible.

But some months of stress and strain at work resulting in death, I think this young person had an undiagnosed underlying condition.

[Fuldagap]

A Big 4 had visited for campus placement in our final year of college. Their presentation prior to the process was fantastic to say the least. Our batch went all gaga with them. After the presentation there was a small Q&A and then the process would start. I had a few queries and after everything was over they politely asked if anyone wanted to opt out of the process. It took some level of courage for me to stand up and walk out the door leaving my friends and placement committee baffled. I was young and baffled too with only my gut feeling being the reason for my action.

Many of my batchees were recruited at a not so good package but good profiles into Tax and Consulting domain. People partied hard.

Few days later I got placed as a BA in an American consulting firm albeit not even close to a Big 4 as far as the size of the company was concerned. I worked there for an year on two great projects and got the exposure which we all dreamed of in the college. Then my young self fought back and I changed my career like anything, worked at a number of places totally unrelated to each other. I could not have imagined such an experience if i would have even gotten placed in a Big 4.

My friends in the Big 4s, all worked a hell lot in the initial years. 16 hours per day became normal for them. With toothbrushes and towels in the bag, the office was a second home. Some months were hectic, some were totally liberal. They would play computer games throughout the day in the office. None of them left their respective firms or took to the pressure. The grinding was taken for granted because each of them knew what the initial years demanded. The packages offered initially were not brilliant either. Just the tag of being in a Big 4 was the respite.

Few years down the line, some continued in the same firm, some switched to another Big 4. And all of them left for abroad at seemingly fancy places, got married, had kids and permanently settled there with just a few exceptions who came back for some personal reasons owing to the family responsibilities.

They still work under a lot of pressure but it has become a way of life. Each of them is more than well settled (for almost a decade now) with any parameter in question.
They realised the importance of work life balance after they moved abroad.

I on the other hand have had immaculate experiences (career wise and personally) I would not have fathomed the day I walked out of that placement process. I got to work at one of the most difficult and demanding jobs in every which way, physical or mental but the level of satisfaction that one wants out of life was there to compensate. I listened to my gut more than a decade back and could not be thankful enough.

What went through with the girl is extremely tragic and very understandable. The pressure on a newbie is high, the culture is of pressure. Life takes a toll on aspirations. There is always a trade off. I wish there were lesser repercussions for a young aspirant, but there are none. Nowhere. Constant peer support, family support and a strong heart with an attitude to say no is very important. Only the ones who lose their dear ones realise the real loss. We all can just sympathise.

There are always choices at one's hand. And every choice has an end result. You decide what you want and accept what comes. Once a choice has been made, there will always be difficulties in some form or other.

There is not one profession I know of that has less mental pressure on the being. It takes a toll to stand out. The girl's tragedy is a prime example of what others should feel lucky about. Just being alive and with family is an achievement in itself which people do not readily realise. Big 4 or not, listen carefully to what your gut tells you. Take a backseat now and then, think hard and then take the dive into any major life decisions. Say no to people and goals if it is becoming too much of a hassle. Put a restrain on temptation of any sort. Grief is what the family is left with now.

[Miyata]

Hopefully more details will emerge in the coming days so we can get to the heart of the matter.

But even otherwise, from what I've seen, the service-based companies - their Indian offices, more particularly, have the most unpleasant work atmosphere and culture that's largely disrespectful to fellow human beings.

The very same company would have totally different culture and practices in the US / EU that's lot more respectful and employee friendly.

What I've also noticed is that much of this toxicity is driven by managers / senior managers that really have no business being a manager in the first place. They are more ego driven where the power dynamics and a sense of hierarchy governs their mistreatment of employees / reportees.

[i74js]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

A 26-year-old employee of Ernst & Young, Pune has passed away due to what her mother claims was "work stress."
Source

The death happened in July 2024 and the news has surfaced now. What was going on all this while?

[anshuman_b]

Having worked in one such so called Big4, which apparently has worse work culture than EY, I’m not surprised by this tragedy.
The inhumane treatment people get from the senior management is beyond imagination.
I too was assigned to one such project where 14-15 hours a day was the norm, 7 days a week work, working even on national holidays without any additional pay or comp off were some of the norms.
Manager can call at 1 am and say today we will work all night, partners will come in the evening will dictate you have to work all night from office.

There was an instance where a person had to login at 1 am after coming back from a funeral.

Workplace abuse and shouting are normaized from the very top.

These are just few of the examples and I can write an entire article on these.

It’s high time we get these buggers accountable for their deeds, otherwis

[Sk8r]

- For people stating that we need to wait for the facts to come out, am guessing they’re not aware of money/muscle power in India. Do we need a certificate stating that she does because of work stress ? Good luck.

- Looking at the email response from the top boss talking about wellness programs and all sounds so cute. We(working class) know exactly what he is talking about and how it happens on the floor.

[PatienceWins]

The article mentions that the doctor asked her not to compromise on sleep and food. But how did she die? Asking to see if it was a sudden death like heart attack where there is no time for recourse.

I agree that managers should be more empathetic to freshers; many of them would be very submissive - calling "Sir" when there is no such culture and attitude of ready to take any orders. There is a limit to how much they can stretch to compensate for their lack of experience in a fast paced environment. I remember instances where the freshers work continuously for 2 days, with just a break to go home and freshen up. India should also have strict labour laws; like scandanavian countries.

[neeravnaik]

It is a tragic loss and symptomatic of the work culture in a lot of corporates. Sometimes in startups when they are growing it can be tough to get the resources and have times of high workload. Good companies recognize this and plan better but these firms are in mature businesses. IT should be almost science regarding the level of resourcing required.

But they seem to have made it a business model out of exploitation and making people work unreasonable hours. Somewhere they are making surplus profits out of misery of their workers. With top firms doing this it becomes an industry practice and this culture is glorified.

[Ays7]

Unfortunately, being over worked and grinding it out is called "Right of Passage" and so many of our own business leaders subscribe to this method. Even our movies of yore have dialogues like "Jawaani kaam Karne ke liye hai, shauk Pura Karne ko puri zindagi padi hai", it is said, but it is really engraved in so many people that we do not even question it.

This leads to nothing but extreme toxicity in the work place where your work is judged by number of hours you are at office rather than actual work done. In many places, the departments can seem chronically understaffed.

I had a close acquaintance who was suffering from a terminal illness, and Doctors had given her few years at best. She kept working due to her financial condition and she worked in Indian operations of a global bank.

The bosses were aware of her medical situation but there was no respite. She left for work at 7:30 AM every morning and could never leave office before 8 in the evening and with Mumbai commute, reaching home by 9:45 PM or later, only to do the same grind 5 days a week.

In her case, the department she worked for was always chronically understaffed and she used to deal with unrealistic deadlines and escalations after escalations.

She passed away during Covid but due to her condition at an age of 41. I am not saying her work situation had anything to do with it, but I did see her always been hyper stressed about work. She was doing WFH the day she got admitted to hospital. She got discharged in 10 days or so, as doctors informed her that she should rest and spend her time with her loved ones. She passed away on the 10th day of being discharged.

Her office, was supportive of her when she was hospitalised, but when she came home, there were a few messages from her immediate boss asking her when she could be back for work. He was genuinely shocked when I replied to his message that she has just passed away.

Did it make a change in the work culture? I do not think so. Did the work culture exacerbate her? well probably, to an extent. This was just an example to my as to how ruthless organisations can be.

To be fair to the organisation, they did hold a staff memorial for her, but she had worked there for over a decade, so that was fair. Also being an International company, the health insurance plan and benefits she received were such that though the parents missed their daughter and do till date, they did not have to worry about finances ever.

But I do feel that organisations need a serious look at how they treat their employees and their work culture. Imagine, these are billion dollar organisations where employees are key to success. They can get away with this. Now think of small, private firms with employee strengths of 20-200. I have seen organisations treat employees like crap, decide they would work on public holidays on a whim and what not. I still no so may organisations, who count leave of 4 days if leave is taken on Friday and Monday. It is beyond ridiculous.

Sorry about the rant. Just an issue I feel strongly about. And it is not much we can really do. Our population ensures that labour here is cheap and easily replaceable. So I do not think there will be any long term changes here.

[maddy42]

Originally Posted by DDIS_RE650

My wife used to work at EY- Bangalore RMZ office. It was dreadful 4 years, at the end she resigned without holding any offer. Life is more precious than stressful jobs. The place is full of arrogant mid level managers who are regionally biased based on language and religion.

Glad better sense prevailed. Health and mental peace is very important and i know peoples relationships, health and pregnancy which has been impacted due to the firms stress.

Originally Posted by atulsian

This work culture is same across all the big 4s'. I was part of one of the firm. 60-70 hours a week is normal (Mon- Sat) and 2000 hours per year is minimum for 90% of the tax/audit team.

Season is the worst time in these organizations. Burnt out employees leaving is common place.

Originally Posted by Turbohead

Looking at the response from the India head to its employees, safe to say no lessons were learnt.


At best, I can imagine the immediate manger to get fired for the sake of PR or damage control.

Nothing will happen. They have already thrown the girl under the bus.

FYI this is the 5th death in the firm this year. They have now cleverly started sending death messages only to the group of persons working under the same team and not a organization wide message.

Originally Posted by bobbyblr

In the email, he mentions that she died on 20th July 2024 and after 3 months we are getting the news.

Originally Posted by i74js

The death happened in July 2024 and the news has surfaced now. What was going on all this while?

FYI this is the 5th death in the firm this year.

Originally Posted by Sk8r

- For people stating that we need to wait for the facts to come out, am guessing they’re not aware of money/muscle power in India. Do we need a certificate stating that she does because of work stress ? Good luck.

- Looking at the email response from the top boss talking about wellness programs and all sounds so cute. We(working class) know exactly what he is talking about and how it happens on the floor.

Nothing will change. The family will be stonewalled in all the compensations they are supposed to get and any nails which stand out will be hammered by this organization.

The US team will take a week off for Mental health reasons but the Indian team is supposed to be working anytime.

A US Taxes Senior manager Passed away recently. Amongst the 4 or more death this year.

A day later a US Manager who was indian was asking the Indian manager the status of the work with no condolence offered and didnt respond when the Indian manager stated that the team is disturbed due to the sudden loss. So much for Empathy.

People please draw the line. Working to death is not a badge of honor. As Indians we need to stop glorifying this and start living a little.

[LordSharan]

I'd like to understand from docs/experts on the forum, what was the underlying condition that triggered this? A 26 year old healthy human is fairly resilient to what's thrown at him/her.

P.S. In now way I am endorsing the bad work culture, rather curious about the medical grounds of this incident.