[vaibhav_a_a]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Any idea why will they reduce the duties? Is there too much smuggling happening? Or is Reliance venturing into Gold retail

I partially answered this here -

Originally Posted by vaibhav_a_a

...a few, but not exhaustive list of steps that I recall that indicate that GoI is exiting any bullion / backed instrument to the general public and instead encouraging private players.

The SPMCIL auctioned (off Mumbai mint) bulk of their minted gold [large sizes] in stock by close of fiscal 2022. Then they stopped retailing physical gold coin via their website and sales counter here in Delhi sometime in 2023. Then came the agreement with UAE for private players to import gold (at lower duty). In Feb 24 our hon'ble FM indicated to SPMCIL to be ''future ready'' https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...2.cms?from=mdr. .

Also, the biggest beneficiaries are GIFT City and the newish IIBX (launched 2022) and no prizes for guessing where it is located. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...6.cms?from=mdr. News has trickled in about it over last 2 years, some positive, some not so much-

For example: " In a major disruption for the bullion market, almost all of India’s silver imports are now being handled by a few private players bringing the white metal from Dubai through the Gift City exchange, which could cause significant revenue losses for the exchequer over time. "

https://www.thehindu.com/business/Ec...le68379130.ece

Whether there is a real scam or not depends on which side of the political aisle you are from.

I could add more but its all so easily available via google...

[Noctis]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I mostly invest directly via the find houses and not sure if they or CAMS provide such calculators. That's why looking for any generic tool. Don't remember seeing anything in ICICI Direct as well which is my trading share trading platform.

Regardless of where you bought them from, you can download a consolidated excel sheet from MF central for tax purposes. They will automatically calculate CG on FIFO basis and also give you quarterly split up for the ITR.

Still recommend you manually check at least a portion of it at the end of the year to verify its accuracy.

[inner_roadster]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I mostly invest directly via the find houses and not sure if they or CAMS provide such calculators. That's why looking for any generic tool. Don't remember seeing anything in ICICI Direct as well which is my trading share trading platform.

You can also do it manually. Simply apply the concept: remove the total amount of SIP contributions made during the previous 12 months, plus any capital gains for the last 12 months. I am sure there must be a report on monthly SIPs and their current gains on whatever platform you use. Deducting the sum of these two from your current total asset value gives your total LTCG amount.

[Bsimhan]

Originally Posted by inner_roadster

By using this disciplined strategy, we can reduce the tax on long-term capital gains every year. When using this strategy for redemption and reinvestment, one need to be extremely cautious and stay away from the trap of market timing.

In theory this will work. But it will take a very long time and I am not sure if a person will be able to hold on till then.
Regards, Balaji

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by Noctis

Regardless of where you bought them from, you can download a consolidated excel sheet from MF central for tax purposes. They will automatically calculate CG on FIFO basis and also give you quarterly split up for the ITR.

Still recommend you manually check at least a portion of it at the end of the year to verify its accuracy.

This will work for filing the returns. I am looking for a way to calculate the potential LTCG to decide the number of units to sell.

[Roark]

Some likely upshots of LTCG and no indexation benefits for Real Estate. Racked my brains a bit for this. This is my preliminary take. I am not in this business though and would love to hear comments from someone who is deeply invested or part of this business. So here it goes:

1. Earlier the property bought (closer to 2001) and greater the increase i.e. 10X or 11X then the new regime is beneficial.
2. Later the property bought (much after 2001) and lesser the increase i.e. 3X or 4X, higher the tax in new regime.
3. Worst is when the property is bought earlier and increase is lower when sold and corollary to the above is that the best is if the property bought later and increase is higher when sold to reduce the tax in new regime.
4. In general, properties which have run up much substantially i.e. 8X-9X-10X will benefit under new regime as compared to which have seen a subdued rise i.e. 3X -5X. So a person who sells a property say in Pune (general increase is around 3X) will tend to pay more tax as compared to a person in Mumbai (where the increase is around 9X). Assuming the same metrics (bought same year, no investment of Capital Gains in other property etc)

5. I sense that Investment in properties for flipping is being seriously discouraged and perhaps rightly so. An investor who looks to purchase a property not to rent it out but to flip it after 3-5 years (earlier, to save himself/herself of STCG and get a LTCG benefit) is not going to earn enough with this MO (this taking in to account - taxes, stamp duty, opportunity costs etc)
6. Chances are resale properties are going to dry up in the market and thus primary sale i.e. new flats will tend to get a fill up.
7. Also, there is a good chance the premium or upscale property market might see a reduced intensity of buying and affordable housing might increase. The view is simply because the property market didn't crack post Covid and saw a great many increase - not in affordable but luxury and premium apartments. Just feel that it is being anchored by investors more than end-users. And an investor is always seeking alpha i.e. (fin-speak for increase in return to the benchmark return). If property doesn't provide that he will seek it some place else.
8. Lastly, I have still not understood how are properties bought before 2001 going to be taxed. Are they going to get indexation benefit till the year of sale or only till 2001. i.e. I have a property which was bought say in 1990 and selling it in 2024. So the earlier method was to get the Acquisition Cost (COA) as if the property was bought in 2001 and then apply the CII for 2001 and 2024. Now, is it the same in the new regime also or the property will be benchmarked to 2001 and then take 2001 as the COA and selling price for 2024 and then calculate LTCG at 12.5%.
Read quite a few articles but then there is little clarity on this matter. Just that, you think about the bridge when you need to cross it and by that time it is always too late.

Cheers

[sgm]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I mostly invest directly via the find houses and not sure if they or CAMS provide such calculators. That's why looking for any generic tool. Don't remember seeing anything in ICICI Direct as well which is my trading share trading platform.

You can download from CAMS or KFin for any MF

https://www.camsonline.com/Investors...Loss-statement

https://mfs.kfintech.com/investor/Ge...countStatement

[vaibhav_a_a]

Agree with your points 1-4, Roark re post #66. Do not agree with 5-7. Reasoning below -

5. Cash component will help you avoid tax significantly. In Delhi NCR, circle rates lag market rates, in some cases circle rates are half of market rates. Enough industry veterans have said so post budget.

6. Industry mouthpieces (pls see Hiranandani's views on MC) are already suggesting people sell old properties and invest the entire proceed in new properties. This helps the builder lobby like nothing else does - of course, they don't care if after selling in your neighborhood you cannot afford anything similar in your neighborhood anymore - for them its a great chance to sell their overpriced new launch long after the pent up covid demand has dried up.

7. The premium market staying up was a result of excess liquidity and the stellar equity market performance along with a way to avoid CG - though it was capped at 10CR value in March 23.

On 8- I am as clueless as you are.

[BHPjunkie]

This government is just increasing taxes year on year, but where are the damn benefits? We still have pothole filled roads, bridges collapsing and a poor infrastructure. What is the responsibility and what actions have been taken on the contractors and babus who passed bridges which collapsed? The tax structures in India are moving towards a developed country but we continue to have an infrastructure of a developing country or probably even worse.

The bought media is harping and highlighting that a salaried class individual is saving INR 17,500 annually in taxes, really? How much is 17,500 really worth today? Inflation is at 4% annually plus there are increase in taxes, why aren't exemption limits being increased? Exemption like 80C, 80D and basic exemptions have not been increased in line with inflation and remain the same. Plus the tax is hiked so the salaried class in the end they have lesser cash in hand. Just ridiculous decision making. It's pushing the middle class even lower.

During current times, a salaried individual with 12-15 years work experience on paper may earn more than a small business owner, but all of it is eaten in taxes. Both of them drive similar vehicles, but business owner gets depreciation benefit, both have drivers and staff at home, but business owner claims expense deduction. Both go out to eat/party and use electronics (mobiles, TVs, ACs etc.), a business owner claims the GST paid. In the end the actual spending capacity of the small business owner is much higher and has much more cash in hand than the poor salaried class. Cost of all the above expenses have gone up substantially in the last 10 years, a business owner get direct benefit of the same, but the poor salaried class can only avail basic exemptions which have been the same since the last 10-15 years and top that off with higher taxes.

A highly frustrated Indian who won't think twice before moving out of the country given an opportunity.

[Quoter]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

This a massive negative for debt fund owners. I have a couple old debt funds purchased before April 2023 where taxation after indexation is zero. But after this I will have to pay 12.5%. Now after this tax the inflation adjusted returns will be negative. Had I known I would have exited them

This is still a bit of grey area. As per some folks the older funds will continue to enjoy indexation. For funds purchased post April 2023 though, the taxation is on slab rate. Debt mutual funds are no longer classified as a capital asset and are treated at par with Bank FD's. So the 12.5% rule does not apply on them.

[Quoter]

Originally Posted by Roark

8. Lastly, I have still not understood how are properties bought before 2001 going to be taxed. Are they going to get indexation benefit till the year of sale or only till 2001. i.e. I have a property which was bought say in 1990 and selling it in 2024. So the earlier method was to get the Acquisition Cost (COA) as if the property was bought in 2001 and then apply the CII for 2001 and 2024. Now, is it the same in the new regime also or the property will be benchmarked to 2001 and then take 2001 as the COA and selling price for 2024 and then calculate LTCG at 12.5%.
Read quite a few articles but then there is little clarity on this matter. Just that, you think about the bridge when you need to cross it and by that time it is always too late.

Cheers

The current proposal is that they will be indexed till 2001 price with LTCG at 12.5%.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by vaibhav_a_a

Agree with your points 1-4, Roark re post #66. Do not agree with 5-7. Reasoning below -

5. Cash component will help you avoid tax significantly. In Delhi NCR, circle rates lag market rates, in some cases circle rates are half of market rates. Enough industry veterans have said so post budget.

That is another negative which I see. The cash component going up in property selling. But then that should have been an obvious outcome which should have been sighted. Or is the GOI so short-sighted so as not to see the cash sloshing around in the system for property purchase - even now that is. In non-metros, the agreement value is generally always at the ready-reckoner/circle rate and the excess (the actual rate minus the circle rate) is coughed up in cash. This also lowers the stamp duty/registration charges. There is bound to be this MO coming in to metros as well.

Old properties (bought before 2001) are definitely at a disadvantage. Most look to stay in the same locality rather than move out but then affordability would be in question. Thus vintage properties might not see the secondary market any time, though builders might look to come up with any number of schemes.

That is another of my pet ponderances, for which I have not been able to wrap my head around.
Why was Covid an inflection point? Post Covid people took to premium/luxury property market like fish to water. Who was buying and with what purpose? End-user all of them, surely not. If an investor, then what could be the ROI? Perhaps, the NRI's (read an article which said that the premium is propped by heavy NRI purchase. Know a couple of instances in extended family doing so). But then entire premium market anchored in by NRI's. That, though a long shot then falls neatly in to place. NRI investing heavily in to premium properties simply because the returns here in India are definitely better than those in their home countries. But then the Forex rate is a clincher. With the Rs dropping against the dollar, it is surely going to evaporate their so-called alpha.

Whew! All in all, pretty interesting business to understand.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by Quoter

The current proposal is that they will be indexed till 2001 price with LTCG at 12.5%.

Makes sense.
Otherwise the very idea of knocking of indexation benefits just 'to make the process less complex' goes out of the window.
Also, it goes against the grain of older regime which was taxing at 20% LTCG.

Having said that, old vintage properties are surely under the pump. This is going to cause a serious heart burn for owners of inherited properties bought or owned before 2001. Who would look to sell now!!

[Roark]

Originally Posted by BHPjunkie

During current times, a salaried individual with 12-15 years work experience on paper may earn more than a small business owner, but all of it is eaten in taxes. Both of them drive similar vehicles, but business owner gets depreciation benefit, both have drivers and staff at home, but business owner claims expense deduction. Both go out to eat/party and use electronics (mobiles, TVs, ACs etc.), a business owner claims the GST paid. In the end the actual spending capacity of the small business owner is much higher and has much more cash in hand than the poor salaried class. Cost of all the above expenses have gone up substantially in the last 10 years, a business owner get direct benefit of the same, but the poor salaried class can only avail basic exemptions which have been the same since the last 10-15 years and top that off with higher taxes.

I hear you, Sir, I sincerely hear you!!
I couldn't agree with you more. Though I am not one of the salaried classes, though was one of them about a decade back or so!. But I do sincerely feel that the salaried class always gets the short end of the stick! Always!

And that is because the GOI can successfully and ably tax them. This being that their income is under the watchful lens of IT Authorities, when it is handed over. Not to mention the control it can exert over it.
Earlier when I was working, there were times when I used to get just half my salary in March (reason - tax deducted since no investment proof given, OUCH!!!)
The GST is one way to ensure that the business owners are also brought under some scrutiny.
Also, the new tax regime is meant to ensure that more money is left in the hands of the salaried class with a negative outcome of no investment benefits. Whatever little that is.

This again is a pet peeve I feel. Most look to invest in tax saving schemes and be disciplined about it, when they are forced to (at least that is what was me when I was working). Once the tax benefits are taken away, would the salaried class look to invest - in ELSS, NPS or other tax saving schemes. Just wondering!

[volkman10]

The arrogance continues,

While discussing the rationale behind big tax changes the FM says:

“Taxes have not been increased because I want more money… The decision is based on the idea that every asset class has to be treated similarly"

Link: