[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by Joeboy

It is a shame that the most populated country in the world could win only 6 medals whereas the 2nd most populated country China finished second in the medals tally behind USA.

Sorry, but there's a difference between manufacturing athletes and making athletes, both processes are different, former technique is being used by China.

I won't justify India getting less medal tally in the Olympics, we have different set of problems and in no way we can compare ourselves to Chinese. No sane Indian parent would want their kids to go through the tortures' the way Chinese athletes are "manufactured"

Infact, It's a shame for China and is a commonly known truth, the way they manufacture their athletes for the Olympics, where they are forced (read tortured) to train as kids for "gold at any cost" type of machine. Even at times DNA/genes testing is carried out for selecting athletes.

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[Sk8r]

To people talking about "Tax Payers Money", please share your views on BCCI being exempted from paying Tax as it is an "charitable organization". End of the day, this leads to "lost tax" thereby increasing burden on "tax payer" ?

[RMN]

Originally Posted by Joeboy

It is a shame that the most populated country in the world could win only 6 medals whereas the 2nd most populated country China finished second in the medals tally behind USA. As long as cricket dominates the Indian sport there is no hope of us winning more medals in future Olympics.

I'm sorry but I have to say that this statement lacks any logic. One can also say it's probably the unnecessary comparison with Cricket all the time that's denting Indias medal tally!

You do realize China is better at a lot more things than India which has nothing to do with Cricket, or sports for that matter? tbh that's part of the reason why they are better at sports.

Anyone who follows sports closely or plays sports at a decent level in India knows that there are plenty of reasons why we aren't great at sports and that Cricket has nothing to do with this. And frankly, I doubt even with all the money and infrastructure, we would have fared better. For some reason, we Indians as athletes lack that championship mentality - be it in cricket or any sport. Its slowly changing but we have a long way to go.

[DigitalOne]

A nation's medal tally is closely linked to the strength of its economy. Looking at the final medal tally cursorily this does seem true, especially if you look at the performance of Japan or Korea. Despite the aging (and declining, in case of Japan) and largely homogeneous populations, both countries are in the top 10. This is absolutely fantastic.

Of the top 20 countries in the medal table, I see only Uzbekistan (#13), Kenya (#17), and Brazil(#20) which are not developed economies. Uzbekistan medals have largely come from Boxing and Wrestling, while Kenya, as we all know, is a powerhouse in long distance running.

So, for India to greater heights in Olympics, we should:

- make more Olympic medal factories like in China. Definitely not a recommended approach, IMHO.

- keep working on our core strengths of Archery, Shooting, Wrestling, Boxing etc and hope for the best. With some luck, that can get us into top 40 like Uzbekistan. As an aside, this is what is happening with Indian Chess now.

- develop our economy, so private money flows in, and sports becomes a viable option for our youth. As more people play without worrying about where they are going to get a job or not, the talent pool increases, and performance would also gradually improve in all sports.

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by RMN

And frankly, I doubt even with all the money and infrastructure, we would have fared better. For some reason, we Indians as athletes lack that championship mentality - be it in cricket or any sport. It’s slowly changing but we have a long way to go.

If we Indians lack championship mentality then how come we have won in Cricket world cups over the years ?

How do you think a Neeraj Chopra or a Lakhsya Sen has come up in the ranks ? Have you ever seen Leander Peas play for the country in the Davis Cup ? I am yet to find someone who says that Virat Kohli doesn’t have a champion mentality or for that matter a Smriti Mandana doesn’t have a champion mentality !!

As I have said some time earlier in this thread itself or somewhere else, India needs a comprehensive sports policy where talents are identified from the grass roots and then supported fully. A Lakshya Sen is a perfect example of this policy which the OGQ sponsored.

And we all know, until now at least, the government is least bothered about developing sports although we do have a Sports Ministry in our country and we also have various individual federations. Most of them are run by politicians and they are hardly bothered about the sports part.

We have iamazing talents scattered across the country, one just has to look around. But who wants to invest in long term development of sports when all we care about the medals and nothing else !! No one is willing to support an athlete.. after all it’s the ‘ TAX PAYERS MONEY’ which will get wasted. Instead that money saved can be diverted in more constructive things.

I agree with rest of the part of your post though. Sports has never been a priority in our country and talents have never been encouraged.

* * * *

In another news, the Indian Olympic Association which actually runs all the federations, have issued a statement that Vinesh Phogat and her team was solely responsible for the weight fiasco and IOA is hardly to be blamed. And this when, Vinesh Phogat is representing India. The IOA couldn’t even wait to issue such a statement even when the CAS appeal lies pending. Although I understand that the CAS ruling will be against us only given the circumstances but such a statement is so lame from the IOA.



It’s such a shame that the IOA is headed by an elite athlete whom we respect so much. The vagaries of politics has even engulfed the past greats

[mack.mehul]

In the case of Vinesh Phogat, I think the entire responsibility was of her team to manage her weight and if she came out overweight in the morning before her bout, rather than blame politics, the blame should be borne by her team. Secondly it has not been highlighted that before she was competing in 53 kg category and had reduced her weight to compete in 50 kg, which ultimately & unfortunately got the better of her.

In respect of the medals tally, our athletes have performed at an acceptable level. But in comparison to cricket, the other sports lag behind because of the amount of money in indian cricket. For example look at the earnings of the stars of our cricket team and the earning of the other athletes. It was shown that after winning T20 WC, each player was awarded 5 crores but conversely for winning a bronze, every player of hockey team was awarded a small sum of 15 lakhs. And plus for training we have top class infrastructure for cricket and for other sports the infrastructure is lagging behind and it ultimately reflects in the medal tally.

OTP: I was expecting a gold from Neeraj Chopra seeing how he effortlessly made it into finals but for the effortless & impeccable throws of Nadeem !

[Bhargav7]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

In another news, the Indian Olympic Association which actually runs all the federations, have issued a statement that Vinesh Phogat and her team was solely responsible for the weight fiasco and IOA is hardly to be blamed. And this when, Vinesh Phogat is representing India. The IOA couldn’t even wait to issue such a statement even when the CAS appeal lies pending.

I would rather say, why even give that statement! There is nothing achieved by disowning an athlete. Before or after CAS judgement doesn't matter. It would have been so classy if the statement was somewhat like -

Vinesh, her team, the IOA have worked relentlessly to have her weight in check. However, it was not to be. While we await the decision of CAS, we support Vinesh's right to appeal. Irrespective of the outcome, we will respect the CAS judgement.

I mean, how tough is it to have Empathy, compassion, and understanding of a fellow athlete! The outcome may not change, but you still have to support your athletes.

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by mack.mehul

But in comparison to cricket, the other sports lag behind because of the amount of money in indian cricket. For example look at the earnings of the stars of our cricket team and the earning of the other athletes. It was shown that after winning T20 WC, each player was awarded 5 crores but conversely for winning a bronze, every player of hockey team was awarded a small sum of 15 lakhs.

If the prize money is an important factor in winning medals, US would never be in the top of the medal Tally most of the times. The US pays barely 35k+ USD per gold medal, which is nothing when you consider the purchasing parity. Some of them do get some commercial endorsements helping them make a lot of additional money, but many do not get anything considerable. However year after year they still excel in sports. The amount of money that Indian medal winners get is high by most countries standards.

The university I graduated from had 13 current and former athletes in this year’s Olympics. Two of the current coaches were also deputed as US Olympic coaches. 4 of the 13 athletes won medals. The only thing they were getting as collegiate athletes was all expenses paid college scholarship (education, boarding, lodging, training and participation in top class athletic events). After the games, all the current students and coaches among the 13 + 2 will return to University, get back to classes as a normal student like the rest of the students and continue training and participating in the next events until they want to. They have no special star status, etc. Prize money has never been a success factor for the US athletes in Olympics. They have no guaranteed easy government jobs for their life security.


In India, as far as I know, once you hit national levels, most of the athletes get easy government jobs, in railways, banks, etc., for life security where they are not really required to go to work every day until they are an active athlete.

In my opinion, in the US, it is the amount of interest shown by the overall society in sports from kindergarten level and therefore the infrastructure built at all levels the reason for their success in Olympics. Parents truly take pride in their kids playing sports.

Ofcourse it is impossible for India to do that in a very short time. So it is trying to emulate the Chinese model of selecting a few high potential ones and focusing on them but with embarrassingly low amount of success compared to Chinese.

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by Bhargav7

I would rather say, why even give that statement! There is nothing achieved by disowning an athlete.

I mean, how tough is it to have Empathy, compassion, and understanding of a fellow athlete! The outcome may not change, but you still have to support your athletes.

That IOA wants to absolve itself from the scrutiny is what prompted that statement. Using some words are absolutely no no in the forum and that is why I can’t but use the word ‘lame’ instead !

And regarding empathy and compassion, well that’s reserved for the photo ops only !

Originally Posted by Theyota

In my opinion, in the US, it is the amount of interest shown by the overall society in sports from kindergarten level and therefore the infrastructure built at all levels the reason for their success in Olympics. Parents truly take pride in their kids playing sports. .

Brilliantly put, your post should be an eye opener for many who think producing medals winners is a joke !

[Sk8r]

Originally Posted by Theyota

In India, as far as I know, once you hit national levels, most of the athletes get easy government jobs, in railways, banks, etc., for life security where they are not really required to go to work every day until they are an active athlete.

Sir, with all due respect I’ve to RESPECTFULLY disagree. I had the privilege of representing a state down south in Roller Hockey for multiple nationals.

- We never had sponsors

- We had to buy our own kits. Context - a pair of Roller skates was around 6000 circa 2004. Kit was another 4000. Bat was around 1000. I don’t want to bother you with inflation

- We booked our own railway tickets for Nationals and the prerequisite camp before the nationals. Sleeper class. The rich folks were lucky to travel by 3AC

- I had the opportunity to attend just one camp for India in 2003 at Patiala. It was a 30 day camp and we had to pay even for our food

- We were asked to pay around 2 lakhs for to and fro tickets to Seoul for representing India. Yes you read that right.

I agree few of us (~5%) got engineering seats. That’s it. Don’t even talk about jobs here.

Thinking about it now, I feel guilty for ripping my dad off, for sponsoring me for many years - ONLY FOR MY OWN INTEREST towards playing Roller Hockey.

So, when many folks are talking about an Olympic medal for India, I can only ROFL. The ground reality is way different from our virtual imagination.

This is an old pic of us playing in our State meet. Good old days

[mack.mehul]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Sir, with all due respect I’ve to RESPECTFULLY disagree. I had the privilege of representing a state down south in Roller Hockey for multiple nationals.

Thats what i was trying to say earlier that the infrastructure and facilities for sports other than cricket are really lacking. No wonder you had to spend your own money for playing a sport for the country. Secondly as rightly said by someone as a society we need to encourage our kids & younger gen to take up sports as a full time career. However it is a tough road to take apart from cricket because of lack of recognition.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Sir, with all due respect I’ve to RESPECTFULLY disagree. I had the privilege of representing a state down south in Roller Hockey for multiple nationals.

- We never had sponsors

Hi Sk8r, you have to understand that, in Indian context "Roller Skating" Hockey is such a niche and not relevant sport. Expecting to get sponsored for such a sport is a stretch in a country like ours. I am pretty sure I would have problem putting together a team of eleven roller skating hockey players in the whole of my home district. Why would anyone sponsor such a sport when there are many other significantly more popular sports.

[freakmuzik]

Not a sportsperson here but a musician. I sincerely feel a key contributing factor to us lagging behind in sports is how our systems around children are built. Right from kindergarten to middle school to high school to university, Arts & Sports are always secondary even for someone eyeing to be a professional. Half the time, there would be no family support, no support from school staff or anyone at all. It's not a blanket statement as I do know teachers and staff and parents who offer immense support. But as a ratio, things are just beginning to get better. I can't keep count of the innumerable people who still keep asking me when I say I'm a musician - 'so you're not working? Why don't you apply for a job?'

1.4 billion population may sound fancy but that has nothing to do with results unless and until the atmosphere is right. A large majority aren't even able to meet ends, find a safe space to sleep. It's either an elite set of people or people whose determination breaks all the barriers of poverty and it's difficulties that reach the top.

As many have mentioned before, corruption - in politics, in our basic way of life and in our minds - plays a major role, isn't it? Even if a physical education instructor at a school fails to support and do extra for someone talented by feeling lackadaisical, thanks to his/ her secure job and a steady income, is corrupt in a way. Amidst all this, I salute all the amazing souls who do such an incredible job to fetch talents, train and bring India 6 worthy medals.

Arts and Sports need to become something extremely normal for everyone. It is because of it not being so, I feel, that people in arts and sports are either extremely celebrated or hyped or absolutely hated. PT periods in schools need to be up from 1 a week to at least 3 or 4 a week, though I'd actually say Everyday! Music and other arts should be included for everyone, to get a taste of it at least. It's all a way of life rather than some achievement to clinch on. Given exposure, children who have a natural inclination will easily find a way, determination and discipline. When I interact with friends abroad, it is incredible to see how they all know at least one musical instrument and a sport each. We are still a nation where most kids are forced to do things they do and not 'let' to do things they want to do.

India is fancy in numbers, in history books, in emotion, in pride and in words. In practice though, we have an extremely long way to go as we all know. I'm sure we are marching ahead and that the tally would look incredible in the decades to come.

[kiku007]

The Keyboard Warriors Association of Bharat has issued the following the statement in response to India’s performance at the 2024 Olympics,

Disappointed with the lack of commitment shown by athletes after spending millions of tax-payer rupees.

The association primarily consists of,

• Uncles who couldn’t commit to 10,000 steps/day for 30 days/month Challenge in their Whatsapp/Pacer Group.
• Aunties who wouldn’t let their children take one day of school leave to attend a family wedding because they will loose 1 day of “learning”.
• Teens who gave up street cricket after Year-10 because it’ll impact their prospects in Year-12 and competitive exams.
• Youth who can’t care to do their own house chores or even cooking because they are too busy.
• 50/60 year olds who are healthy and can walk perfectly fine but insist on having wheel chair assistance on international flights.

It is not clear if the association members would let their own children/grand children/future offspring go through what typical Olympians endure to participate at the Olympics. Such a decision would be life altering and doesn’t always come with commensurate guaranteed monetary benefits. However, the association members noted that the Indian Olympians made a conscious choice to go through hell (to secure the opportunity to participate), so they have to stand the scrutiny of the association demanding ROI on tax-payer rupees. It is not any different from the ROI they expect from their own children anyways.

Meanwhile, there’s extreme concern among neutral observers (aka Leftists, Redditors, anti-nationals) on how to manage the Association’s expectations when India is expected to spend billions of dollars for the 2036 Olympics which it will host if it wins the bid. The ROI is hard to justify based on the current trajectory unless a complete overhaul is done.

Disclaimer:
After living in Australia for a reasonable time, I can appreciate how this small but rich nation is punching above its weight at Olympics. Sports and fitness is an integral part of life here. The coordinated efforts of children/athletes, parents, carers, grandparents, volunteers, state, federal and sports bodies from the grassroots level is something you have to see and experience to comprehend. Your heart will break when you hear the stories of sacrifices made by professional athletes. In this context I suppose it must be very difficult to be a professional athlete in India with a long term career path to wealth.

One day they are a world champion and another day they can’t even stand without help. Life can change in a moment. Enjoy sports and be kind because, “It’s pointless if it’s not positive.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byv_VLPpowk

[am1m]

The number one requirement for improving the level of any sport is to increase the number of people playing the sport, the talent pool. In fact, I'd say this is all we should focus on for the next 5-10 years. As a start, we need more facilities and need to improve accessibility to existing facilities.

Take Kanteerava Stadium in Bangalore. They have a lot of facilities for multiple sports. The facilities are mainly for the state and national athletes, fair enough. But they practice mainly in the early morning. Why can't the facilities be used by the general public, especially children from government schools for the rest of the day?

A few of us manage to use some of the facilities in the mornings, and we've seen first hand how tough the caretakers make it for a member of the general public to use the facilities, or even get information on what is available. We've tried lobbying for increased timings through the few people we know, but we get stonewalled by "public will damage the equipment", "there is no one to supervise", etc.

Some institutions like the Tata group have already started doing this and the results are now showing in national competitions. Example: For the longest time, the South Zone (mainly Bangalore) dominated a particular sport. The gap between the Bangalore competitors and the rest of the country was huge, primarily because Bangalore had some of the very few training facilities for that sport. In 2002, the Tata group set up the first facility for the sport in Jamshedpur. In 2014, they setup an academy for sport. And for the last 2 years, for the first time in decades, athletes from the East Zone (those who went through the Tata academy) have been beating the South Zone. Getting to Olympic levels will probably take a decade or so more at least.

Those are the sort of timelines one must be prepared for. How many ministers or private companies will be prepared for such an investment with no visible returns?

Out of the box idea- to invest in an Olympic medal 10-20 years down the line, start by investing in caretaker salaries today! Get better people at the lower levels.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentra...89-022-14441-w

"Barriers associated with the public use of sports facilities in China: a qualitative study"

"Almost all respondents mentioned that a professional team (staff) is a basic requirement for the effective management of a sports facility. However, some interviewees pointed out that the marginal positions and low salaries of sports facilities staff make it difficult to attract professional management personnel or high-talent people to this profession."

There are so many small things we can get into place, but the basic mindset has to be that we need to spend the next decade or so just building the basics with no expectation of returns.