[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

In our neighbourhood dog lovers feed the strays, vehemently oppose removing them right down to threatening FIRs but will take zero responsibility to get them spayed, innoculated etc. Many on Team BHP who are not dog lovers I'm sure can identify with these issues and the rigidity put up by dog lovers.

If the Govt has banned a few dangerous species good for all of us who have to deal with dog owners short on civic sense.

Good points - To some people Dog is seen as an equivalent to their own children, from here you can pretty much decipher the other behavior patterns, some would even add their last name to the dog. I am only reporting what I have observed.

Besides how can we deter a person who is convinced they are doing the right thing - this feeding stray dog business is becoming a flash point, feed and forget. Several instances of children \ elderly getting attacked where I lived in Bangalore earlier including a specially abled child.

I think rules about keeping guard dog breeds should allow those who have independent properties that are fenced, we need them, they are not pets but have a job to do.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Besides how can we deter a person who is convinced they are doing the right thing - this feeding stray dog business is becoming a flash point, feed and forget. Several instances of children \ elderly getting attacked where I lived in Bangalore earlier including a specially abled child.

This is the heart of the issue. I have no doubt that a lot of people genuinely believe they are doing the right thing and they are "fighting the good fight" when anyone objects to the nuisance their actions cause (either by streeties or pet dogs that are maintained badly). And of course it's certainly no fault of the dog.

But in some case, it's blatant. At one beach in Goa where I was staying for a couple of months, I'd see a car drive by every morning. Not even stop, but the passenger would fling some rice, biscuits and other food out of the window for the street dogs, like an emperor and drive off. Those dogs were also some of the most aggressive I've seen, forming packs at night and chasing people on the beach. (I got chased while jogging on the beach early in the morning too!)

But of course "their highness's" who magnanimously scattered food out of their vehicle probably didn't even live in the same area, but must think they are such kind souls for feeding the strays! And god forbid if you try and go up to them and talk sense, especially if it's a woman feeding them! I'd rather take my chances with the dogs!

There's also a neighborhood in Mumbai I frequent when I'm in that city. Some of the streets are filthy because there are several people who scatter food and milk all over the street when they walk past for the cats that live there. The cats there are so well fed, (and I've counted about 30 at a time!) I've seen them not bother about the rats that walk right past them to eat the food they leave! I pity the poor street sweepers who have to clean up all that mess every morning and the real residents who can't object to the actions of these affluent morning walkers who walk away from the filth to go to their fancy homes in other areas.

Hence, for people like that, (while I understand that it's a knee-jerk reaction) I think government regulation and in some cases a ban is probably the only solution.

[handsofsteel]

I’m an ardent dog lover. I have a pet of my own. However, I do not support people who feed stray dogs religiously every day and take off. We have a few ladies in our colony who do this. Zero accountability for anything else. Their brahmastra upon being accosted? - Maneka Gandhi! These strays have become territorial and terrorise everybody and all other dogs as well. They are very smart as well and disappear the moment the NGO van for neutering comes around. A recent litter has given rise to 10 new puppies now. Being cute while young, these are being looked after by domestic helps, kids and street vendors. Tomorrow, once they grow up, they will ‘join the gang’. Alas, no easy solutions.

[subraiyr]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

I’m an ardent dog lover. I have a pet of my own. However, I do not support people who feed stray dogs religiously every day and take off. We have a few ladies in our colony who do this. Zero accountability for anything else. Their brahmastra upon being accosted? - Maneka Gandhi! These strays have become territorial and terrorise everybody and all other dogs as well. They are very smart as well and disappear the moment the NGO van for neutering comes around. A recent litter has given rise to 10 new puppies now. Being cute while young, these are being looked after by domestic helps, kids and street vendors. Tomorrow, once they grow up, they will ‘join the gang’. Alas, no easy solutions.

Completely agree. Having lived across Bangalore I see this holier than thou attitude of some folks diligently feeding strays. To the point, they start behaving like the monkeys you see in some of the reels on social media. The moment you have a plastic bag, they come bounding and terrorize you. When incidents happen with these strays terrorizing people, the feeders quietly disappear and no accountability is taken. The govt should probably focus on stray menace as a policy rather than knee jerk action of capturing them and releasing them elsewhere. And for those who pay through their nose to buy rare breeds - why cant you adopt one of the strays and make them your house pet. That will control the stray menace and will give you the satisfaction of having a pet

In our community, if we say dog owners we are looked down upon and even chastised. We have to call them pet parents. And don't get me started on usage of lifts by pets and pet parents. A few weeks back, i was waiting for the lift, the door opens and a husky jumps out. Although it was on a leash, the owner did not shorten the strap and the dog ended up pouncing me. Missus who is absolutely scared of dogs - fled or rather should i say flew

[vellatechie]

Now can the government please ban Husky, St Bernard, Pugs, tea cup variety and any breed that has a very high rate of medical issues?

I don't trust people to train their kids in Airplane, movie theatres and other public places. I sure as he'll don't believe the majority of these dangerous breed owners to put any effort in training them. Infact they treat them as security guard and making them mellow is against their rationale to own then in the first place.

It's an excellent movie by the government. I hope they have a very high penalty for people who continue to breed them.

[Fuldagap]

'Dog lovers' are a small part of the society anywhere in India. If not for their high pitched voice for animal rights and the supportive, strict animal law, the 'dog lovers' along with the animals would be sidelined and crushed like in the uncivilized parts of the world.
Calling a judge a 'dog lover' and thereby accusing him of being at variance with the law of the land is comical and highly irresponsible way of putting the post.

'not dog lovers' do not realise that the menace created is not by the 'dog lovers', the human society has invaded the animal land and destroying it everyday by astronomical numbers. Why can't you take some responsibility and get 10 dogs sterilised in your residing area instead of accusing fellows who at least feed them. Poop? Of course an animal will poop after eating. Can you restrict a dog to a certain area for daily poop and his dietary intake. No sir you cannot. Compassion took a backseat in the human mind long ago with the erosion the civilisation has gone through. Gone are the days when a certain Hanuman represented karuna (compassion). We are left with urban dwellers who have lost their civility.

Kindly go and read the law along with some religious or cultural texts. Ghor kalyug!

The dogs are not the menace, mentality like this one is. It's a shame we have to share the world together. The society management is led by such people only wherever I have been till now and have seen how cruel they are even asking security guards to poison strays and sometimes even more. On the other hand have seen 'dog lovers' letting their humane activities eating their pockets every month and not letting go of even an impossible to treat animal till the last possible moment.

There was a time animals roamed freely around. The humans have long taken up the title. Delhi used to be an abode for lions even during the British times. Now even dogs can't find a place here. What a shame. But it all comes back as Karma.

I have seen 'dog lovers' to be immaculate personalities with agility to accomplish things like none other. Luckily or unluckily their primordial part of the brain is still functioning. They have evolved like humans were meant to. To love, care and be compassionate with other beings as well as among themselves. A dog pooped, a pigeon shat on a precious car. What a menace they are to the world.

I wish every human had the voice to demand his right as the so called 'dog lovers' do. And I wish 100% of the humans were civilised.

Last but not the least, saw a Brigadier many years back come out with a plan to mitigate the dog menace in his brigade and subsequent units. He successfully implemented a plan to catch each and every stray dog in the units, get them vaccinated and sterilised. He even went on to pick the healthy ones, get them army documentation and post them on each and every post of all those units. The boys went gala and happy to put their hearts and minds in this once in a lifetime good deed. Most of them were gurkhas. The camp commanders (Lt cols) of subsequent units made sure nothing went against these orders. Seeing the boys every other day feeding the dog first the Khichdi out of his own bare hands was a daily happiness dose. Was the Brigadier an animal lover? He was a prudent, trained, fierceful commando known for doing what he did best, getting the job done beautifully. The boys did what their commanders asked them to.

The other animal stories from the army that I witnessed are akin to what RWAs do to strays. The boys did what their commanders asked them to.

Mod Note: Personal attacks on fellow BHPians & rude posts are STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP.

Please ALWAYS be civil, polite & respectful to other members...even in debate.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further. Thanks for the support & understanding

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Good points - To some people Dog is seen as an equivalent to their own children, from here you can pretty much decipher the other behavior patterns, some would even add their last name to the dog. I am only reporting what I have observed.

The part that I don't understand is how can someone snatch a little pup from its mother, isolate it from its natural surroundings, keep it locked alone in a small flat for the majority of the day, and claim to be a dog lover. I've seen many are so disconnected from their dogs and on their phones even when walking the poor thing. Even inside the house, the dog is caged/tied up for the most part since not every family member is comfortable with the dog.

A blanket ban might not be a solution but I support it just because a large number of owners are not fit to care for a pet and just got one as a status symbol or because the kid wanted one.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

The dogs are not the menace...

First off, I agree with the sentiment, the dogs are not at fault. However, they can become a menace, because of human (in)action. And top of that list is the government who should really be responsible for sterilizing street animals.

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Can you restrict a dog to a certain area for daily poop and his dietary intake. No sir you cannot.

Of course you can. Why not designate some public area as a feeding spot? And if I love to feed street dogs so much, why can't I gather them outside my gate and feed them, instead of scattering food outside the gates of my neighbors, who may not like dogs like I do? It is their right to live in peace and not be disturbed by my activities. I'm sympathetic towards feeding streeties too, but why don't we do it hygienically? Carry plates and cups. Wait for the dogs to finish and clean up after.

No one here is saying they hate dogs. Some of us are just against irresponsible dog ownership, illegal breeding, and the unchecked breeding of street pups.

[Btw, before you ask me what I've done, I've got stray cats and dogs sterilized at my cost, have adopted a rescue dog, and a street pup in the past. Not blowing my horn (many, many people do a lot more), but just heading off the inevitable question. But that doesn't mean everyone who doesn't do that loses the right to not have rats breeding outside their house because of food scattered by irresponsible dog feeders.]

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by am1m

Of course you can. Why not designate some public area as a feeding spot? And if I love to feed street dogs so much, why can't I gather them outside my gate and feed them, instead of scattering food outside the gates of my neighbors, who may not like dogs like I do? It is their right to live in peace and not be disturbed by my activities. I'm sympathetic towards feeding streeties too, but why don't we do it hygienically? Carry plates and cups. Wait for the dogs to finish and clean up after.

The designated areas for dog feeding are built in most good societies, institutes and organisations. The dogs just wont eat there. Some do, many don't. For poop, I don't think they can be made to pass it in a designated area. I'm absolutely not arguing here, just putting the experience. Some societies spend a lot of money for making good looking shelters too for dogs, they are rendered useless, no dog uses them.

Originally Posted by am1m

No one here is saying they hate dogs. Some of us are just against irresponsible dog ownership, illegal breeding, and the unchecked breeding of street pups.

Nobody explicitly mentions that even more so on a forum like tbhp. Actions speak more than words though. It is not just a tbhp post, in general hatred is rife all around. Just an individual cant be pointed out. It's futile to do so.

Originally Posted by am1m

[Btw, before you ask me what I've done, I've got stray cats and dogs sterilized at my cost, have adopted a rescue dog, and a street pup in the past. Not blowing my horn (many, many people do a lot more), but just heading off the inevitable question. But that doesn't mean everyone who doesn't do that loses the right to not have rats breeding outside their house because of food scattered by irresponsible dog feeders.]

Sir in the previous post I pointed out the gentleman about neutering to make a point not to actually ask him to go and do it. Even doing a small good deed counts a lot.

The thing is, for all practical purposes, expecting the government to eradicate this problem has proven meaningless. Accusing a judge of biasness is craziness. Pointing out ladies from the society who feed the strays shows immaturity. A lady is the forerunner, she takes the family where it ought to be. Children look up to their mothers and aunts. Feeding the hungry souls is an act of benevolence that teaches children to care and be responsible for their actions.

The human - dog relationship is thousands of years old. Like there is the sentiment of love, there is the emotional bonding with dogs. It is primordial. Nobody can control his or her emotions which are hardwired into the brain. There is no way a person feeding the strays can stop feeding for any reason.

Dogs are a result of us humans domesticating them, training them, breeding them and now abondoning them on streets. A human when born into the world comes with such problems by default, with no error on his part. Like there is pollution, there is dog menace.

Unless enough citizens realise that it is a natural problem and needs participation from each responsible person, 'dog lovers' will be blamed. Which serves no other person than to possible earn their disgust or hate.

We are humans, humans err. From all sides. Love, compassion, care go haywire when things start affecting on a personal level. Last but not the least, at least spare the dog feeding ladies of the society. Come on! That's stopping too low.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

We are humans, humans err. From all sides. Love, compassion, care go haywire when things start affecting on a personal level.

See, these are all generalities and a debate on these will go nowhere.

If we are talking specifics, let me ask people (not just the post I'm quoting) this:

You live in your home with your children. Someone from another neighborhood comes by every day and scatters food in front of your house for a bunch of street dogs and just goes away. The dogs eat some of the food, leave the rest. For whom to clean up? And then they also get aggressive with your kids when they go out to play. Rats come and eat the rest of the food. How do you react?

I don't know about others, but even as a dog lover, I'd say, please take the dogs to your house and feed them. Shelter them there. Actually I won't say a word, as others have already posted, that will incur wrath and legal action. Personally, I'd shut up, grin and clean up the mess. But is that fair?

I'm not talking hypothetical situations here, I've seen this happen in a few neighborhoods, as I've already posted earlier. And I've also been chased down my own street by a pack of dogs.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by am1m

See, these are all generalities and a debate on these will go nowhere....

.... But is that fair?

2-3 years back, a lady started feeding a stray on my floor. Because of the presence of the stray on the floor my own dog would start barking incessantly. The problem was grave. Instead of blaming the lady and confronting her, I understood that the feeding won't stop and I'll end up only in verbal arguments.

The stray was a dog, he knew how to use the lift. The staircase was always locked. The dog was an extremely intelligent one, used his paws to push the lift buttons and roam inside the building of his own accord. There were too many fans of the dog naturally, including children.

I asked the lady to feed the dog right infront of my door and knock my door once she has to everyday. When the stray used to gulp food, I'd let my door open, leash my own dog and let her watch the stray eat food. My dog became used to the activity and stopped her barking in a matter of few days. I kept a clean bowl right outside the door and asked the lady to just pour food into it instead of using one time use containers. I took the responsibility of cleaning the space. For me the problem was solved but it took my efforts too.

Like some people love dogs and the related activities, there are people who are naturally scared of them. Finding a mutual solution with collective effort is the way out. If enough people fed the strays, got them neutered, the 'dog lovers' would be out of 'business'.
But that's a pipe dream. Life isn't fair in any case.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

For me the problem was solved but it took my efforts too....Finding a mutual solution with collective effort is the way out.

I take your point and this is probably the only practical way out, agreed.

But also have to point out that most of the effort to adjust seems to have been on your end. Here's hoping that a mutual solution will truly be that, where both sides take equal effort and it's not just "I have a right to do this, I will, no matter how it inconveniences everyone else."

Thanks for engaging in a good discussion. I'm honestly conflicted too about feeding strays. I totally understand the humanitarian impulse behind the act, but I don't agree when it becomes a nuisance to other people. And let us remember that if it does become a public health issue, the government will step in with far worse and cruel measures.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by am1m

I take your point and this is probably the only practical way out, agreed.

But also have to point out that most of the effort to adjust seems to have been on your end. Here's hoping that a mutual solution will truly be that, where both sides take equal effort and it's not just "I have a right to do this, I will, no matter how it inconveniences everyone else."

Thanks for engaging in a good discussion. I'm honestly conflicted too about feeding strays. I totally understand the humanitarian impulse behind the act, but I don't agree when it becomes a nuisance to other people. And let us remember that if it does become a public health issue, the government will step in with far worse and cruel measures.

The lady was feeding numerous dogs everywhere. She understood my problem too. But the dogs pick their own places to reside, eat and poop. Dogs and cats are generally hygenic in nature, unless they fall sick. They don't poop where they eat, once they grow up and pass a certain age that is. The lady had earlier tried a lot to feed the dog at designated areas but he just wouldn't.

After 2 months or so the dog left my floor for good. The lady then continued feeding him elsewhere. I got the dog neutered. His name was 'majnu' and he definitely needed neutering. Our law provides rights to animals which are fantastic compared to most other countries. I hope it stays that way and the current speculations of constitutional changes don't take place in the near or far future.

Few days back the chairman of my erstwhile society was fined 25K inr through a legal notice by an NGO backed by Maneka, because of his evil deeds against the menace. Would he change his attitude and actions? I think the fine would further feed his innate nature against dogs. Life isn't fair for any being, be it humans or dogs.

Thanks to you too for the discussion.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by am1m

You live in your home with your children. Someone from another neighborhood comes by every day and scatters food in front of your house for a bunch of street dogs and just goes away. The dogs eat some of the food, leave the rest. For whom to clean up? And then they also get aggressive with your kids when they go out to play. Rats come and eat the rest of the food. How do you react?

In my instance, substitute cats for children.

Our street/area has a large dog population. Any cat that goes to the street may be dead within minutes. I see other areas with both cats and dogs on the street and this is not happening. I'm at a loss to know why, except that there are only one or two dogs, not a dozen.

I don't know what the answer is. I have never been against the street dogs, but I am turning that way.

On the subject of making it illegal to keep the more dangerous dogs...

I have this thought. I was reluctant to post it because I hate arguments of the if it saves one child kind. I don't think this is that kind of argument, but some might.

There is a strong, and well-informed faction that say it is always the human's fault, not the dog. But I don't think that they disagree that certain breeds have been bred for their physical attributes, including super-powerful bite, and disinclination if not inability to let go. A scenario crosses my mind, It goes like this...

You are dog owner. You are on the street with your well-trained and mostly good-natured dog. Some idiot child, spoilt and badly trained by its parents, runs over and starts kicking your dog. Even though the dog is better trained than the child, it reacts. What outcome, with all the consequences, would your prefer: that the dog does little more than bark, or that the child suffers major deep tissue damage?

It is a super-exaggerated scenario. But it is also very far from impossible. And it demonstrates the principle of inherently dangerous.

In America, every time somebody takes a gun on the street, it does not result in a death. In GB, every time somebody takes a knife out with them, mostly nobody dies.

These deaths from human/human violence (wild guess) probably far exceed serious damage by dogs. But the principle is the same. And if people do not keep a potentially lethal weapon as a pet, their dog is highly unlikely to kill or maim.

Fashion made these breeds popular. They did not used to be. No, they should not be allowed. Some other countries have taken steps long ago, but perhaps even they should have acted sooner.

People may be able to poke all sorts of holes in my logic. Please think of the general principles. I have made an illustration, and it may include all sorts of faults.

[DIY410]

The problem with a breed like Pitbull is that it doesn't let go, I have seen videos of owners themselves kicking their dog even on the groin and it still wouldn't let go.

Its name is self explanatory Pit bull. Its a dog breed soley for a fight in a ring. With over 3000 plus attacks and over 300 human kills, in the US alone. How many news articles does one has to read, that this dog killed its own owners or their child. In the end the the dog is euthanized but it also took a victim or two with it.

A aggressive dog should be removed, since it causes even peacfull and even neutered dogs in the pack to react violently towards a potential victim be it another dog or a human.

In my street a female street dog used to be aggressive towards people at night time, especially when it has got puppies every year or so. But once it died after 7 plus years, the pack that was in that street never again showed aggressiveness.