[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by amol4184

Around 6am I woke up and was standing by my bed. This dude came from somewhere and grabbed my ankle! I was startled but realized it was just a play-bite did not try to wiggle away (a strict no). I grew up with dogs yet this was surprising as he ambushed me skillfully. I kept calm as he looked at me let go but remained sitting at my legs. Clearly no harm was meant but scary enough. Definitely did not expect this first thing in the morning. Later that day he did the same with my cousin as he was feeding cows. I have a feeling this breed needs training to curb their bite-y nature?

The behavior traits of old working breeds like Rottweilers are well known to professional trainers and handlers.

Training is a must to form a bond, correct certain behavior and to encourage others, but in any case the working dogs are very confident, they know their job and will enforce their decisions

[Fuldagap]

My pet dog is a desi. Although she is suspected to be a mix of some German Shepherd. She is 5 and totally untrained. I never bothered to train her but she understands all my basic language naturally.

As others have pointed out, the 1st year is what makes the baseline behavior of a pet. My dog was free to roam for hours in open mountains during her 1st year. She is quite comfortable wherever I take her and have changed residence quite often since then. She is comfortable living in the apartment and mostly sleeps for hours (probably waiting throughout for the morning and evening walks).

Her behaviour is like a hunter. Always on the prowl for opportunties to 'attack' other animals, including big ones like camels. She never bites any animal but always keeps up her play and she looks ferocious doing so. Only a few animals are able to entice her and become friends. Others just run away.

Needless to say, I live at places which are scantly populated and when I take her to a walk i make sure to take her to open and secluded places where any other human being's presence is negligible. Even if I have to take her to a walk in an urban jungle scenario, I pick a time which makes human presence as less as possible. It makes sure never to offend another person because after so many years the dog cannot change. She would run here and there for 1 hour or so morning and evening, thereby releasing her built up energies.

However, whenever she encounters an animal friendly human she melts like butter and demands rubbing and petting constantly. She is quite finnicky at picking her favourite humans.

As pet owners it should be our moral responsibility to assess situations and humans alike and try to avoid unnecessary troubles. Because after so many years, most humans also cannot change. Animals just have a way to know which human is animal friendly and which not.

If i had to live in urban jungles I am sure it would have become a problem for me and the dog. Sometimes it still happened though that some human got offended by my unruly dog and apologised unconditionally because there's no point in trying to correct others. Only in one instance in the last 5 years situation could not be pacified and got out of hand because the humans were local bosses.

Keeping a dog also disciplines life because the walks cannot be missed. Stress busters? For sure!

[professortarzan]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Might have something to do with:

- Size difference
- Stray dogs are used to human interactions all the time
- Dependent on people giving food

You may have a point, but I connect with amol4184's explanation more. It is inherent to their behavior, dogs always show unconditional love. Their primary intention is to keep us happy and they would sacrifice everything for their masters. On the other hand, I feel cats have their own character like any human would do. It takes time to build trust and form a bond. Just my point of view.

Originally Posted by amol4184

Cats make you work to earn their trust and love. On the other hand dogs fall in love with you pretty easily and unconditionally. Even the stray dogs.
I think that is why when cats (stray cats even more so) show affection towards you it's more satisfying.

Edit: Oops, I just realized I have written all that to someone whose handle is SmartCat. You probably know a lot more about them that I do.

[Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

Having lived and grown-up almost all of my life with Dogs, I can definitely say there is nothing called as ferocious dogs. But all have different traits/personalities and they can be trained and toned/mellowed down with proper professional training and care, even if they have Territorial, Protective, Possessive, Fear, Defensive, Predatory aggression. They mostly become aggressive only by human behavior towards them.

Very well said. While dogs have lived amongst us for thousands of years, they are still a different species. Many people do not know that the breeds that exist today are all results of human intervention! We initially bred for the traits that were most useful to us - namely guarding, hunting and fetching. For example, the Dashhund, was selectively bred for its elongated, sausage like body. Quirky now, but very useful while chasing rabbits into burrows!

One of the primary issues is the stereotype associated with certain breeds. For example, the common myth that Labradors are great with children. This is simply not true. A badly raised Labrador is every bit as dangerous as any of the so called 'dangerous' breeds.

It actually comes down to size and power. An out of control Shih Tsu will exhibit all the aggressive characteristics and unwanted behaviors that a badly raised Pitbull or German Shephard will. It is just that the level of damage that a Shih Tsu can do is minimal - it weighs in well under 10 kilos, and has almost no bite force. A 35 kg German Shephard on the other hand, has an average bite force of 250 psi. Corelate this to your typical care tyre pressures and you get the idea!

Unfortunately, some people acquire these large breeds purely for the prestige and 'road presence'. Proper training is neglected, and the final outcome is left to the roll of the dice. Some dogs work out okay, others not so much. And make no mistake, training a dog requires a lot of work, and is not always fun. But when that German Shephard/Pitbull/etc is a little puppy, everything it does is 'cute', and it is just much more fun to cuddle with it and allow it to jump on you and chew your fingers. Eight months later, your puppy weighs 30 kilos, and does the same thing, but it is not so cute anymore!

The good thing is that, at least here in Delhi, I see a lot more people adopting our very own desis. Like I had mentioned already, all dogs are basically the same under the hood, genetically speaking Again, one must avoid the stereotypes you hear - One common one is that desi dogs are very street smart, and that they are good guard dogs. Sure, some desis are like that, but I've met others who will do pretty dumb things! A lot of it comes down to how you raise them, and in cases where you adopt an older dog, what their previous life was like.

In a way though, I do support this 'ban' - but for very different reasons. I do a fair bit of volunteer work with animals (mainly dogs and cats), and see plenty of horrifying cases where a 'breeder', after literally sucking the life out of poor bitches (female dogs), dumps the now useless (to him) animal on the streets to fend for herself. And the way some of these breeders raise their animals has to be seen to be believed. Of course, not all breeders are like this, and some genuinely care for their animals. But since the average buyer doesn't see the backend operations, and only the cute, cuddly 'products', it is easy to take the shortcuts.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Lone Ranger

I do a fair bit of volunteer work with animals (mainly dogs and cats), and see plenty of horrifying cases where a 'breeder', after literally sucking the life out of poor bitches (female dogs), dumps the now useless (to him) animal on the streets to fend for herself. And the way some of these breeders raise their animals has to be seen to be believed.

Kudos to you for helping! I wish animal rescue organizations would publish the photographs of the conditions/cages in which these female dogs are kept and what happens to them as a result of multiple litters, and how their lives ultimately end miserably, abandoned.

Any right thinking person- if a genuine dog lover, will stop buying dogs after that and will prefer to rescue a street pup instead. Stop the demand, stop the supply.

(There are certainly some genuine dog breeders, who do love a certain breed and get registered with the government and maintain standards. But those are by far the minority. Chances are most of the 'good breed' puppies most of us buy are from an illegal dog breeder.)

[amol4184]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Training is a must to form a bond, correct certain behavior and to encourage others, but in any case the working dogs are very confident, they know their job and will enforce their decisions

True. That dog naturally does his job rather well i.e. patrolling area around the house. I am pretty sure getting a dog trained is foreign concept to my uncle. I think he is happy the way that dog behaves without an iota of guidance and treats his biting as a sign of aggressiveness which is a must in that area(deep rural and large farmlands away from village). Sounds a little terrifying to my urban ears but it works for them!

Originally Posted by professortarzan

You may have a point, but I connect with amol4184's explanation more. It is inherent to their behavior, dogs always show unconditional love. Their primary intention is to keep us happy and they would sacrifice everything for their masters. On the other hand, I feel cats have their own character like any human would do. It takes time to build trust and form a bond. Just my point of view.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

This is a very limited view so let me counter.

The point I'm trying to make is yes, they are wary of humans. As a species, they haven't made peace with humans like dogs have. But I would never bracket all cats in one statement as you have done.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

No, they are indeed all unique individuals!

But there are traits which are fairly universal. Almost.

Cats are very loving, very intelligent animals, but, to a large extent, only on their own terms. They insist on everything being their way. For instance, they decide where, when and how they want to be petted.

I grew up with pet dogs, stray dogs and stray cats too. The cats avoided our household because of the pet dog. A couple of male cats would toy around with our dog from a tall compound wall knowing he will never reach them and then leave after getting bored

After our pet dogs died we decided not to get another as the pain was too much for mom. That literally opened the gates and all kind of strays started coming to our home.
Every time I made friends with a cat it felt like a small victory. And it took efforts. Throwing them a fish wouldn't guarantee their affection. I never knew which cat would stick around and bump their head into my shins. There were a bunch of cats that never ever came close to me or my mom but would lap up food given to them. Whereas with dogs I knew for sure they will all be my friends.
Looking back I never met a cat that fell head over heels in love with me at first sight. On the other hand I can recall quite a few examples where dogs did that. Its not to say that not a single cat allowed me to pet in the first minute of meeting them but its just that they won't reciprocate. They will take the pets and leave.

Heart wants what it can't get or can't get easily and that is why the observation above. There must be cats/cat breeds that have dog like characteristics when it comes to affection its just that I haven't met them.

P.S. Our uber shy kitten plays fetch! He starts with playing a little football first then gets bored and drops his foam ball at our feet - that is a sign he wants us to throw that ball. The first time he did that I was bursting with joy and surprise. Other kitten just stares at this silliness.

Cat tax below. A super aggressive stray tom cat guarding his property (our home) with serious intent. Took a well over 2 months before he showed any interest in us.

[Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by am1m

Kudos to you for helping! I wish animal rescue organizations would publish the photographs of the conditions/cages in which these female dogs are kept and what happens to them as a result of multiple litters, and how their lives ultimately end miserably, abandoned.

Thank you am1m! Some animal shelters do indeed put out informative and enlightening posts on their Instagram pages. The BMAD shelter in Chennai is one. Wagging Tails in Delhi is another. There are other shelters across the country also doing great work, but I think many of them just don't have the resources to spare to create and maintain an good online presence. This is unfortunate because there's nothing like hearing and seeing from the people on the frontlines.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Lone Ranger

...but I think many of them just don't have the resources to spare to create and maintain an good online presence. This is unfortunate because there's nothing like hearing and seeing from the people on the frontlines.

Absolutely, most of us don't realize how badly these dog breeders operate. We only see the cute pup that we are purchasing and how nice the instagram photos will look posing with our dog.

A series of pictures of the actual conditions in which such breeding female dogs are kept will jog anyone's conscience. I've seen some and my heart breaks, I don't have the courage to search for such images online. And I swore I would never "buy" a dog ever again, even though I've had dogs all my life, since I was a kid.

How about a donation drive towards disseminating such information/images? I would be more than happy to contribute, both in money and time/content editing work. But we'll need the actual images from the rescue efforts that the organizations do.

[Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by am1m

How about a donation drive towards disseminating such information/images? I would be more than happy to contribute, both in money and time/content editing work. But we'll need the actual images from the rescue efforts that the organizations do.

That is very nice of you! If I may suggest one thing, do see if you could help out an outfit or individual closest to your neighborhood. Supporting any caregivers (in any way) who are already doing the work will really help. These are the people who feed the animals everyday, and try and get them spayed/neutered/vaccinated. Without these people in the picture, it is so much more difficult and time consuming to catch them. The only humane way to control the dog population is the ABC (animal birth control) program, and these guys are a critical link. Unfortunately, the general public often attacks and persecutes the very people who are the key to the problem!

Originally Posted by amol4184

Heart wants what it can't get or can't get easily and that is why the observation above. There must be cats/cat breeds that have dog like characteristics when it comes to affection its just that I haven't met them.

Hi Amol4184, I totally get where you are coming from. One of the cats that I used to feed every day for a year slapped me with claws out when I offered him a piece of chicken. He was very clear - just do your job and leave the food on the plate, I'll take it from there

The thing is dogs branched away from wolves maybe 30,000-40,000 years ago and became dependent on human beings for their survival. The dogs that showed more affinity towards man (and willingness to do his bidding) had a better chance of survival. In combination with natural selection, man accelerated the process by selectively breeding the dogs that best suited him. This is the primary reason why a dog instinctively will try to make a friend of you.

Cats on the other hand, came into the picture much later, and then only purely as pets for the elite. The selective breeding that was done then onwards were mainly for looks, and not so much for 'desirable' behavior. So our modern day cat friends look at us through a very different lens, as compared to our dog friends.

But, they are both wonderful in their own special way!

[PradoGdr88]

Originally Posted by amol4184

My uncle got a Rottweiler at his farm in 2021. The pup was just 4 months old when we visited and already looked massive for that age but I am not familiar with that breed so may be it is natural. At night, as is the ritual we slept out in the verandah and all night I could hear his paws making tuck-tuck-tuck sound as he paced everywhere.

Around 6am I woke up and was standing by my bed. This dude came from somewhere and grabbed my ankle! I was startled but realized it was just a play-bite did not try to wiggle away (a strict no). I grew up with dogs yet this was surprising as he ambushed me skillfully. I kept calm as he looked at me let go but remained sitting at my legs. Clearly no harm was meant but scary enough. Definitely did not expect this first thing in the morning. Later that day he did the same with my cousin as he was feeding cows. I have a feeling this breed needs training to curb their bite-y nature?

May be it is unpredictable nature of these dogs that make people wary of them. If it was some small kid instead of me I am pretty sure the kid would have been scared sh*tless, possibly injured as even for a 4 month old, the pup had considerable strength in his jaws and massive paws.

2 years later my cousin now tells me he has stopped biting people. I don't know. I am gonna be careful next time I visit their farm.

A picture of him from same morning.
Attachment 2586612

Sir am glad to hear both you and the dog are doing fine.

Rotts need training and more than that the Rohit's need training to train the Rotts (Pun intended)
1) Socialization
2) Obedience Training
3) Exercise Routine

Ask the owner to go through dog training around these topics if not there are free videos of Zak George in you tube.
If possible ask him to get a copy of this book (https://www.amazon.com/Zak-Georges-D.../dp/1607748916)
Rotts are easy to train within the first year post which you need some additional knowledge to training them.
Also they have a huge bite force and a jaw locking mechanism which prevents them to let go. Not trying to scare anyone just trying to emphasize on the importance of training.
Training will channelize his energy, help bond with his owner and help generate confidence which are very essential in a dog's up keep.

Important Note:The picture of the young guy is not very clear but please check his diet with a Vet (my gut says he is calcium deficient, I hope I am wrong)

I see a lot of people pointing to the breeds and the purpose of their breeding and pointing that their basic instincts will kick in.
I do not deny that fact when the 'Fight or Flight' mode kicks in few sets of dogs are more damage prone than the others.
But in my line of work I have seen pitbulls demoralized and shivering at the sight of humans.
Mind you evolution has made sure only the best genes in this case the genes where dogs accept humans as masters and listen to them travel through generations.
Belgian Mastiffs and Argentine polar dogs are good examples well Argentine polar dogs is a madman's experiment the less said the better.
Currently I stopped training dogs gone are the days where champion dogs were sent to my kennel to be trained for 6 month for championships I still regret those days.
Now I train dog owners and not the dogs. I own few of the 23 listed and few dying native breeds. I can confidently say the liquidated genes alone cannot make them dangerous.

We clip tails of dogs, ears what not ever wondered why?

[anjan_c2007]

The recent ban by the Union Ministry of Fisheries, Animal Husbandry and Dairying proposed a ban on specific dog breeds due to the increase in attacks on humans. It may be well intentioned but on its flip side it's not also without it's flaws. Media reports suggest that such a ban could do little to reduce the number of dog bite cases. The ban has been imposed due to increase in attacks on humans by these breeds.

The 23 dog breeds include Rottweilers, Pitbull terriers, mastiffs, terriers and American bulldogs. The goal is to stop these dogs from being sold, imported and bred. This is a small victory against the widespread, unethical and illegal breeding of these dogs. But are only these breeds aggressive? The existing population of these breeds with owners who already own these breeds have been advised to get them neutered.

As a vet, I have witnessed smaller breeds and Indies misbehave on occasion. The raising of both children and pets is at the root of the two-pronged issue. A few days ago, my Golden Retriever and I were on a ferry. A group of six children strolled over to our pet-friendly area and touched the dog without permission. It takes only a few children to encircle a dog and make it feel threatened. While my dog is socialised and trained, the incident was distressing and might have made any dog, regardless of breed, lash out in self-defence.

This prohibition recommendation has branded larger breeds as ferocious and aggressive because, in contrast to smaller types, they have the potential to seriously injure people. However, any dog, if it is not taught to navigate different situations, may become aggressive or behave inappropriately. When dogs aren’t trained and are permitted to satisfy their innate need for physical and mental stimulation, they may find it difficult to adjust and may react with aggression.

The ban might not address the actual problem of dog bite incidents unless the causes are addressed. If my pet had snapped at any of those children who were touching him without permission, the ferry would have banned dogs. Similar incidences would eventually put even the beloved Labrador or Indie on the radar of breeds to ban.

Therefore, the answer to this issue lies in pet parents’ increased knowledge of how to nurture each breed specifically to meet its demands. They must also accept full responsibility for their dogs in public areas since not everyone is at ease around them.

Dogs should never be left unattended or off-leash unless they are well-trained enough to have excellent recall, meaning they will come when called. It is advisable to keep them on a short leash when engaging with children or other adults who are not accustomed to dogs.

A dog needs to be properly trained before it is brought into public settings.

There has been a mixed reaction to this suggested prohibition, with some people fearing that these dog breeds will be abandoned and others celebrating that breeds that are not native to the country will no longer be bred unethically. Without addressing the lack of education on the part of both pet parents and people who are not used to pets, just a ban on these breeds may not be enough.

The newslink:-

https://lifestyle.livemint.com/relat...001709640.html

Truly, as the news report says, demonising certain breeds is no solution to the rampantly rising cases of dog bites. Dog bite victims are usually the hapless ones who get foxed during attacks by a single or a pack of dogs. And the dogs that are ferocious and notorious for biting humans are also strays that abound in our landscape. There are Apex Court guidelines about neutering these strays but every 12 months each productive female gives birth to six to eight litters. For that matter, dogs from any breed could be biting humans if not well trained or well nurtured. Many a time humans also incite dogs to attack them.

There will be hundreds of cases where these dogs from the 23 banned breeds get orphaned when there masters abandon them.

The ban can be summarised as yet another step where we take bold measures to "swat a fly here and there, without actually attacking the insect breeding areas".

[condor]

It's all in the training. If anyone has doubts, then they should have met the GSD and Rottweiler that @Fortuner71 had. Amazingly well behaved pair that !

Having said that, I would say that breeds like the Siberian Huskies are a mis-fit in our environment/climate. For their sake, I would still support the ban.

[DIY410]

In the US, the pitbull make up 6% of the dog population, yet this breed caused 70% of the deaths.

You can also tame a tiger or lion, afterall they are a cat. Its all in the training.

But when these animals snap, the owners are helpless.

[Sebring]

Not sure how to react. Maybe it is good, maybe bad. Would you have the full list of banned breeds please?

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The 23 dog breeds include Rottweilers, Pitbull terriers, mastiffs, terriers and American bulldogs.

[anjan_c2007]

A new development states that the Madras High Court has stayed the operation of Central government's letter dated 12.03.24 regarding the ban on the specific breeds of dogs. The ban of imports of such breeds as specified in the Joint Secretary’s letter has also been stayed.

The Madras High Court has stayed the operation of a letter written by a Joint Secretary in the Union Ministry of Fisheries, Animal Husbandry and Dairying on March 12 asking the Chief Secretaries of all States and Union Territories to ban the sale and breeding of certain dogs classified as “ferocious and dangerous for human life” besides insisting upon sterilization of those dogs already being used as pets.

Justice Anita Sumanth also stayed a consequential instruction issued by Central Board of Indirect Taxes and Customs (CBIC) on March 14 asking its officials to prevent the import of those dogs. The interim orders were passed on a writ petition filed by Kennel Club of India (KCI), represented by its secretary and treasurer C.V. Sudarshan, challenging the Joint Secretary’s letter as well as CBIC’s instruction.

Senior counsel R. Srinivas, representing KCI, said, a law firm had filed a public interest litigation petition in the Delhi High Court last year seeking a ban on dog breeds such as Pitbull, Terriers, American Bulldog, Rottweiler, Japanese Tosa, Bandog, Neapolitan Mastiff, Wolf Dog, Boerboel, Presa Canario, Fila Brasileiro, Tosa Inu, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino and the cross breeds of all those dogs by terming them to be “dangerous.”

The link:-
https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le68006000.ece