[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by srvm

Tch, tch. Now is not the time to bring politics into this. There is a time for it but it is not now. It is now time to grieve for those fine folks in Canada who just lost their beloved guns. Let us mourn for their loss. Our prayers, sympathies and deepest condolences to them and their families. We pray that the Lord will give them the strength to deal with their loss.

Politics is about not wasting a crisis, nothing like virtue signalling over dead children to push an authoritarian agenda. There's no shortage of voters craving government protection.

[Fuldagap]

Mother In Uvalde Who Saved Her Sons

Police inaction is being held by many as a main reason for lesser lives saved, of the small children who are being mourned today.
You are on your own when you are on your own. This is not a one time happening either and not not only in the USA that the authorities just act on compliance and not to save lives. Personnel are supposed to put themselves in harm's way, that's the job. Instead they do compliance. What is a civilian supposed to do to save precious lives under such circumstances, a lot of pondering must be done on this.

The Border Patrol Officer borrowed a gun from the barber where he was having a haircut and literally barged into the school. That's bravado.

[Emvi]

Surfing on the internet, bumped into a couple of old but interesting articles.

Guns are common in Iceland, but unlike the U.S., violence is rare.
Iceland has a population of roughly 330,000 — with 90,000 residents who own guns.That’s more than one-third of the population that owns a firearm, according to GunPolicy.org, a website run by the University of Sydney that compiles data from around the world.

According to 2015 research from the Flemish Peace Institute, the country has one of the highest rates of household gun ownership in Europe.But it hasn’t had a murder caused by shooting since 2007.

Source- Global News

While the remote island is the size of Kentucky and has a population similar to St. Louis, Missouri, Icelanders say the U.S. can learn from their gun laws.

Source- NBC news

[Fuldagap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ihQ-j6eALGc

Paul Harrell is an ex Marine. He has almost 20 years of army service behind him. He is an extremely famous gun enthusiast and expert on YouTube.

In this video he, very slowly and very subtly, tries to make his point on mass shootings, their definitions, possible causes, solutions etc. People who google gun related deaths' data and blame guns for the deaths may want to skip the video because that is where he gets towards the end of the video and disagrees.

In the video he fires different guns too, shows his groupings etc. For a reason that is.

The video is 1.5 hours long and is more suitable for people who have atleast some knowledge of guns, data related to shootings and gun ownership. Watched it over a period of many days. IMO it is worth a watch.

[shankar.balan]

Ive been familiar with guns since a very
Young age. And I am a hobbyist Air Gunner in India.
Only on the range.

Yes when in America I like to ‘keep my eye and hand in’ and do visit the range pretty often.

All being said, I would never endorse or allow the harming any animal including but not limited to,
Stray dogs and the like, with your Air Guns.

If you aim and shoot at them even to ‘scare them’ as you put it, it is a culpable offence.

Sections 428 and 429 of the Indian Penal Code provide that anybody who causes harm, injury, death, poisoning, or maiming to animals or cattle with the intent of harming, injuring, killing, poisoning, or maiming them will be punished by a fine or imprisonment of up to 5 years or both.

So I would urge that you DONT do it, if at all you do.

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Gun ownership in India is restricted to air guns, I have one and its pretty much useful for scaring stray dogs and checking how well you can aim.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Ive been familiar with guns since a very
Young age. And I am a hobbyist Air Gunner in India.
Only on the range.

Yes when in America I like to ‘keep my eye and hand in’ and do visit the range pretty often.

All being said, I would never endorse or allow the harming any animal including but not limited to,
Stray dogs and the like, with your Air Guns.

If you aim and shoot at them even to ‘scare them’ as you put it, it is a culpable offence.

Sections 428 and 429 of the Indian Penal Code provide that anybody who causes harm, injury, death, poisoning, or maiming to animals or cattle with the intent of harming, injuring, killing, poisoning, or maiming them will be punished by a fine or imprisonment of up to 5 years or both.

So I would urge that you DONT do it, if at all you do.

Nice to know about your concern, but cops in rural areas don't bother with such idealistic laws. Stray dogs are rabies carriers and very dangerous, only urban activists make a fuss about dead strays and blame kids for getting attacked.

People come first, the dogs won't hesitate to kill your kid, I have no problem injuring a dog to keep it afraid. There is a good reason why strays are such a protected class of animal, but this thread is not to discuss that.

[shankar.balan]

Better not generalise. Its not right to do so. And it is an offence. Its one thing to deter with a low powered air rifle or bb gun near but not directly on the stray or worst case on a fleshier portion the body but definitely not with a high powered rifle, which is simply cruel, Illegal and will have other consequences including triggering or spurring the aggression levels.

Originally Posted by avira_tk

There is a good reason why strays are such a protected class of animal, but this thread is not to discuss that.

[DesertLynx34]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I have no problem injuring a dog to keep it afraid.

The stray dog issue is something that's not given due concern. Even the animal rights activists only wake up when the dogs are harmed and they barely do anything in containing the harms they are doing regularly like attacking school going children or household pets and poultry.

That being said, shooting an animal with an airgun let alone something more powerful to injure is still unethical as it could lead to painful suffering like infections or gangrene.

With current laws in India, the power-limit and the only legal .177 calibre airguns are barely capable of taking down anything bigger than rats cleanly enough and even that is possible only if you're fairly close.

[Jeroen]

An update on gun related issues from the greatest nation in the world

The previous analysis, which examined data through 2016, showed that firearm-related injuries were second only to motor vehicle crashes (both traffic-related and nontraffic-related) as the leading cause of death among children and adolescents, defined as persons 1 to 19 years of age.4

Since 2016, that gap has narrowed, and in 2020, firearm-related injuries became the leading cause of death in that age group (Figure 1). From 2019 to 2020, the relative increase in the rate of firearm-related deaths of all types (suicide, homicide, unintentional, and undetermined) among children and adolescents was 29.5% — more than twice as high as the relative increase in the general population. The increase was seen across most demographic characteristics and types of firearm-related death

Source: CDC data via https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761

Yes, you read that correctly. Kids in the USA, the “greatest nation in the worl” are more likely to die in a gun related incident than in motor vehicle crash!

Quite the sobering thought!

Jeroen

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by DesertLynx34

That being said, shooting an animal with an airgun let alone something more powerful to injure is still unethical as it could lead to painful suffering like infections or gangrene.

When strays surround and menace us or the young ones, one doesn't bother about animal rights. The activists should have been proactive to ensure that doesn't happen, once it happens the strays have no more rights.

I generally feed the strays from time to time and keep them in good humor. But if I see them menace someone in the vicinity, my choice deterrent is a well aimed half brick. Works very effectively and the stray will generally not come back again.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Gansan

When strays surround and menace us or the young ones, one doesn't bother about animal rights. The activists should have been proactive to ensure that doesn't happen, once it happens the strays have no more rights.

I generally feed the strays from time to time and keep them in good humor. But if I see them menace someone in the vicinity, my choice deterrent is a well aimed half brick. Works very effectively and the stray will generally not come back again.

This anti stray sentiment on the Gun Ownership thread has gone far enough.
Its not as if humans have the exclusive right to live on this planet. About time we developed some tolerance.
And anyway this isnt the right place to discuss strays and your particular methods of deterring them. Frankly throwing a stone at an animal is in itself a needlessly cruel act.

[GTO]

Mod Note: Let's avoid any further discussion on stray dogs on this thread, and just stick to our guns (pun not intended ). Thanks!

[Reaper666]

I think this should give quite the indication that guns and more fun owners themselves is not the problem:

https://youtu.be/EkuMLId8SqE

There's also a really huge factor that seems to have not been considered in this thread: The United States has a worryingly large number of mental illness cases which are not being/incorrectly being handled. If there are proper checks and balances in place in how gun licensed are issued, untoward incidents by people with malicious intent can be kept at a bare minimum. The only problem that can arise is if gun licenses are handed out frivolously the way driving licenses are issued these days. But for now, I know background checks are meticulous. This is at least from personal experience. They do not let you purchase even prop guns without a very stringent background check. However one unfortunate issue I got to know through a friend who owns one is that getting access to proper training is close to Nil. You are provided basic firearms training once your papers are cleared and before you're issued a licence or weapon but you don't have much of an opportunity to practice your skills. There is a reason why defence personnel undergo repeated weapons training and that is to ensure that familiarity with the weapon should be ensured of and since shooting is a technical skill and just like any other technical skill (let's take something as simple as playing the guitar) requires constant practice and the lack of which will lead to one losing sync. So far, the "more guns = more problems" seem to only concern the US due to their poor gun laws.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Reaper666

There's also a really huge factor that seems to have not been considered in this thread: The United States has a worryingly large number of mental illness cases which are not being/incorrectly being handled.

Really?
Could you share your sources?

The overwhelming majority of people with mental illness are not violent. Most people with mental health conditions will never become violent, and mental illness does not cause most gun violence. In fact, studies show that mental illness contributes to only about 4% of all violence, and the contribution to gun violence is even lower.

Research shows an increased risk of gun violence comes from a history of violence, including domestic violence; use of alcohol or illegal drugs; being young and male; and/or a personal history of physical or sexual abuse or trauma. Mental illness alone is not a predictor of violence.

Source: https://namica.org/advocacy/criminal...-gun-violence/

Summary: Although many Americans believe that people with mental disorders pose a danger to themselves or others, the science reveals a more nuanced picture.

Source: https://www.rand.org/research/gun-po...-violence.html

In fact the only correlation between guns and mental illness can be found in suicides. And even there it is a minor effect.

Jeroen

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

?

In fact the only correlation between guns and mental illness can be found in suicides. And even there it is a minor effect.

Jeroen

There are also some instances of PTSD victims going off the rails. We do encounter occasional instances in India too where either CRPF or CISF or regular army
Personnel may go off the rails owing to depression or mental health issues.