[am1m]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I was talking about cities, mass murders are rare, however shootings are just not news in large cities as it doesn't fit the whole gun violence narrative.

Fair enough.

But rare as they are, stopping them surely is a priority? So if it follows that stricter gun laws will reduce mass shootings (however rare they are), surely that's a great thing to go for?

Especially since mass shootings (rare as they may be) tend to involve children, the elderly and other vulnerable people when compared to "other" gun violence?

(And "rare" is surely a misleading term when talking about something as horrendous as the mass shooting of children.)

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by am1m

Fair enough.

But rare as they are, stopping them surely is a priority? So if it follows that stricter gun laws will reduce mass shootings (however rare they are), surely that's a great thing to go for?

Especially since mass shootings (rare as they may be) tend to involve children, the elderly and other vulnerable people when compared to "other" gun violence?

(And "rare" is surely a misleading term when talking about something as horrendous as the mass shooting of children.)

Unfortunately, mass shootings in the USA are far from rare. Current number for 2022 is already over 244! Yes, that is a staggering number.

That is more than one mass shooting a day, every day of the year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2022

[Jeroen]

Just posting this little video, so I don’t have to repeat myself anymore:

https://youtu.be/BxrANYjq2i8

Jeroen

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Just posting this little video,

Thanks for posting the video. I got into the comments section and consequently found the following two videos in its response, arguing each of his points. I think they are worth pondering upon too.

Also, I believe proper gun control is coming to the USA in the future. There is huge resistance but it will come.

Here are the 2 videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVJ0SkahgQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R64ct-i3jY

[Jeroen]

Whereas it is unlikely we will see any material changes on gun ownership /control in the USA, their Neighbour, Canada, has just tightened control considerably.

Keeping Canadians safe is the Government of Canada’s top priority. We know that one Canadian killed by gun violence is one too many, which is why, two years ago, we banned over 1,500 types of military-style assault firearms. We also strengthened our gun control laws to expand background checks and keep firearms out of the wrong hands. These measures are helping to keep our children and communities safe.

The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today announced the introduction of new legislation to further strengthen gun control in Canada and keep Canadians safe from gun violence. Bill C-21 puts forward some of the strongest gun control measures in over 40 years.

These new measures include:

Implementing a national freeze on handguns to prevent individuals from bringing newly acquired handguns into Canada and from buying, selling, and transferring handguns within the country.
Taking away the firearms licenses of those involved in acts of domestic violence or criminal harassment, such as stalking.
Fighting gun smuggling and trafficking by increasing criminal penalties, providing more tools for law enforcement to investigate firearms crimes, and strengthening border security measures.
Addressing intimate partner violence, gender-based violence, and self-harm involving firearms by creating a new “red flag” law that would enable courts to require that individuals considered a danger to themselves or others surrender their firearms to law enforcement, while protecting the safety of the individual applying to the red flag process, including by protecting their identity. In addition, the government will invest $6.6 million to help raise awareness of the new law and provide supports to vulnerable and marginalized groups to navigate the provisions.
In addition to this new legislation, the Government of Canada will require long-gun magazines to be permanently altered so they can never hold more than five rounds and will ban the sale and transfer of large capacity magazines under the Criminal Code.

These are the measures that chiefs of police, families of survivors, doctors, and advocates have been asking us to take, and they build on the many concrete actions we have already taken. The Government of Canada will work with provinces, territories, Indigenous communities, and municipalities to implement these measures, and will continue to do whatever it takes to keep guns out of our communities and make Canada a safer country for everyone.

Source: https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...n-control-laws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA9RtBOtLIY

Jeroen

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Whereas it is unlikely we will see any material changes on gun ownership /control in the USA, their Neighbour, Canada, has just tightened control considerably.

Source: https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...n-control-laws

Jeroen

Americans fought for independence, the Canadians are mostly descended from British collaborators, that shows in their thinking and general approach to freedom. They come across as people who want to be wards of the state. The video you posted from Steve Hoffstetter, a comedian, is already out of date, Canada made registration compulsory in 1995 and now they're moving to full on confiscation, starting with ban on handguns. The whole thing is basically a credit score system using the excuse of gun violence.

Meanwhile, coming back to India, it seems people who are clearly a danger to society have no problems getting a gun and using it for whatever. Licensed firearm ownership is such a hassle, most people I know have surrendered their guns and hope for the best. The most recent double murder I know about involved a licensed revolver, looks like all the checking and licensing didn't prevent misuse.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Meanwhile, coming back to India, it seems people who are clearly a danger to society have no problems getting a gun and using it for whatever. Licensed firearm ownership is such a hassle, most people I know have surrendered their guns and hope for the best.

It is a harsh reality. If you have the reach, nothing is out of bounds for you, including a licensed firearm. If you have further reach, you can do away with getting any license too. Based on personal knowledge, there are many good AND bad people in possession of desired guns. Nothing stops them.

Also, there occasionally comes a point when the machinery does arm the civilian militia in our country too. They are called as VDC/VDG (Village Defence Committee/Groups).
The intention seems alright, just that it is in total contradiction to the machinery itself on gun laws, in the sense that the whole security structure finds it better to arm the civilians to thwart threats rather than rely on existing security forces deployed in the areas. More can be read in the following article randomly found on Google.

https://www.news9live.com/state/jamm...iolence-156897

I'm sure regular readers of good news sources and people with certain backgrounds would already be aware of it in much more detail. Some areas have problems of militancy, some have crime. The machinery selectively decides whom to arm and whom not. And this is where it gets messy.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Meanwhile, coming back to India, it seems people who are clearly a danger to society have no problems getting a gun and using it for whatever....looks like all the checking and licensing didn't prevent misuse.

That line of faulty reasoning can be used to conclude that there is no point framing any law. Yes, there are several criminal elements who break every law, does that mean we don't have laws at all? No, of course not. Similarly, yes stricter gun control will not prevent every or even most hardcore criminals from getting their hands on a weapon. But it will/does certainly act as a deterrent to prevent the majority of ordinary people from trying to get one. And that certainly reduces gun violence.

Please look at the video Bhpian Jeroen has posted just a few posts above- like he says, it will prevent the same already debunked arguments surfacing again and again. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5332261 (Gun Ownership)

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by am1m

That line of faulty reasoning


Please look at the video Bhpian Jeroen has posted

And in the post (#454) just below that post, in the video no. 1 from time 0:28 to 3:06 one can find the counter argument, or shall we say it was already thin ice that was bound to break. He starts with mentioning something called the Straw Man Fallacy. I'd be inclined to say it is worth a watch.

Here's the link https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5332368 (Gun Ownership)

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by am1m

That line of faulty reasoning can be used to conclude that there is no point framing any law. Yes, there are several criminal elements who break every law, does that mean we don't have laws at all? No, of course not. Similarly, yes stricter gun control will not prevent every or even most hardcore criminals from getting their hands on a weapon. But it will/does certainly act as a deterrent to prevent the majority of ordinary people from trying to get one. And that certainly reduces gun violence.

Please look at the video Bhpian Jeroen has posted just a few posts above- like he says, it will prevent the same already debunked arguments surfacing again and again. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5332261 (Gun Ownership)

No, I was talking about how enforcement works in the real world, with the red tape involved, specifically only about existing regulations. The laws are aimed at preventing private gun ownership and obviously they have achieved their intended use. Stricter laws with poor enforcement will ensure more criminals have guns, this is well known, its a consequence.

The video is absolutely horrendous, I could watch about 5 minutes by some low rent comedian, famous for getting heckled than his jokes, Fuldagap has posted 2 videos that are a rebuttal of every dumb strawman argument in the comedian's post. There is a third video too, Colion Noir, the man who does those videos is a trained lawyer, and to paraphrase him " while using my weapon, I am in a fight for my life, I don't want a fair fight".

I think we are getting carried away by the culture wars in the US, something that citizens there need to work out. They have the right to bear arms, its not anyone else's business why that is allowed. Gun ownership in India is restricted to air guns, I have one and its pretty much useful for scaring stray dogs and checking how well you can aim.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I have one and its pretty much useful for scaring stray dogs and checking how well you can aim.

All that stray dogs want is a little puch puch. I hope you were just trying to make a point.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

And in the post (#454) just below that post, in the video no. 1 from time 0:28 to 3:06 one can find the counter argument...

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The video is absolutely horrendous, I could watch about 5 minutes by some low rent comedian, famous for getting heckled than his jokes, Fuldagap has posted 2 videos that are a rebuttal...

Funny, I found the first video watchable, the other two were the ones that didn't make much sense and seemed to be less logical and more emotive.

Well, to each their own I guess.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by am1m

Funny, I found the first video watchable, the other two were the ones that didn't make much sense and seemed to be less logical and more emotive.

Well, to each their own I guess.

How about watching a movie then? It is based on a book. The book and movie are slightly different though.
There is a 15 year old boy, Kevin. Anymore about the movie and it might spoil the fun.

IMDB: We Need To Talk About Kevin (2011)

I liked the movie 10 on 10. There is another one, The Bad Seed (1956). Both more or less bring home the same point. And of course one could draw different conclusions of the two movies too.

You might also want to have a look at the comments of the video that you liked. Not that it matters to independent thinking but worth a look nevertheless.

[Gansan]

I feel that a gun, being a stand off weapon, may give unnecessary bravado to ordinary people in possession of them, and get them into situations which they will normally back out of, if they didn't possess one. A knife or any similar close quarter weapon will not give that bravado.

[srvm]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Americans fought for independence, the Canadians are mostly descended from British collaborators, that shows in their thinking and general approach to freedom. They come across as people who want to be wards of the state. The video you posted from Steve Hoffstetter, a comedian, is already out of date, Canada made registration compulsory in 1995 and now they're moving to full on confiscation, starting with ban on handguns.
....
....

Tch, tch. Now is not the time to bring politics into this. There is a time for it but it is not now. It is now time to grieve for those fine folks in Canada who just lost their beloved guns. Let us mourn for their loss. Our prayers, sympathies and deepest condolences to them and their families. We pray that the Lord will give them the strength to deal with their loss.