[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I cannot wrap my head around this pic and its absurdness. How can such a country continue to be called a world leader?

PS: Photo freely available in the internet and hence not blurring the faces.

When this photo started trending, the funniest quote was:

"What irresponsible parents! Can't they ensure that the kid wears a helmet while on her bicycle?"

Btw, this is a cropped image. The full size one has guns on the roof too!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

If the NRA were to have been an Iranian or Russian or Chinese or Turkish organization could it have possibly been labelled a terrorist organization. Any thoughts.

Well, they certainly are in troubled water. Their leadership is completely and utterly corrupt. Using membership fees for their personal entertainment and all kinds of extravaganza.

It is involved in a number of lawsuits too:

FEC complaints. According to a broad range of election and advertising records, the NRA appears to have illegally coordinated with multiple political campaigns—violating federal law that prevents independent groups from synchronizing their efforts with campaigns. Four complaints filed at the Federal Election Commission (FEC) by the Campaign Legal Center (CLC) and Giffords accused the NRA of illegally coordinating with the campaigns of multiple GOP senate candidates in the 2014, 2016, and 2018 election cycles. [The Trace]
Shell companies and Trump. Giffords and CLC also filed FEC complaints documenting illegal campaign coordination involving the NRA and the Trump presidential campaign. The group spent $25 million, mostly on television ads, through the same companies—and often the same executives—who placed spots for the Trump campaign, violating well-established campaign finance laws. [HuffPost]
Giffords lawsuit. The FEC has dragged its feet on addressing these allegations, so Giffords and CLC sought to compel the agency to investigate these millions of dollars in illegal, unreported, and excessive in-kind contributions by filing a lawsuit against the FEC. In October 2021, a federal judge ruled that the FEC has 30 days to take action on the complaints. After no action was taken, on November 2, 2021, Giffords sued the NRA. [ABC News and Washington Post]

Source: https://giffords.org/blog/2022/05/nr...-to-know-blog/

It has also filed for bankruptcy. Now, there is nothing wrong with bankruptcy, has happened to the best. But the NRA is just trying to get rid of tax and other financial commitments they have. So it is, extremely poor form.

National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the NRA leadership are on borrowed time after a year of lawsuits, investigations, and personal embarrassments stemming from allegations of gross mismanagement of the organization. While the power and influence they have built will take years to dissipate fully, the bottom line is clear: the past year has been a disaster for the NRA, and LaPierre in particular.

NRA leaders were forced to reveal in bankruptcy proceedings the depths of their mismanagement and incompetence, spent millions just to lose control of both the White House and Congress, and found themselves at odds with the public at every turn as they pushed an extremist agenda.1

In the courtroom, it would be difficult for the NRA to find itself on worse footing. It is facing litigation not only from former vendors but also the New York and District of Columbia attorneys general for the extravagant spending that has come to define CEO Wayne LaPierre’s tenure. In the face of these threats, the NRA made what might be its most desperate move yet: a Hail Mary bankruptcy filing in Texas in search of a proverbial get-out-of-jail-free card.

It didn’t work. In its Chapter 11 filing, the NRA spent millions on legal fees only to get

Testimony in open court about rampant mismanagement.
Evidence of luxurious personal spending by LaPierre including his private jet travel paid for by the NRA and family trips on a yacht paid for by a stakeholder of a key NRA vendor.
The board president admitting to shredding and burning documents after being “told they could be subpoenaed and used.”
A CFO pleading the Fifth Amendment.
Ultimately a dismissal, with the judge finding the bankruptcy was not filed in good faith and that LaPierre’s efforts to hide the bankruptcy from the board were “shocking.”
Put plainly, the NRA couldn’t even file bankruptcy correctly.

NRA leaders also helped cement the organization’s reputation for pushing an extremist agenda. Last year, as COVID-19 spread across the country, the NRA leadership used the moment to focus on their real priority: pushing a guns everywhere, for anyone, agenda.

With the NRA Annual Meeting of Members scheduled for October 2021 in Charlotte, North Carolina, this report lays out the details of the reality the NRA doesn’t want to talk about with its members. From the NRA’s travels through the court system to answer for its various misdeeds, to the lurid details of mismanagement and incompetence coming out of those court cases, to a diminished balance sheet, to the various forms of extremism it has embraced, to its waning influence in American politics, the past year at the NRA is one Wayne LaPierre and NRA leaders would like you to forget.

Source: https://nrawatch.org/report/the-cont...ne-of-the-nra/

these guys are too thick to even file for bankruptcy correctly!

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

My prejudice would say there would be a hiss of protest from white America. But I don't have enough knowledge to say so with any surety. But blacks I expect can procure guns as easily as whites.

Absolutely, definitely!! However, the number of blacks dying due to gun violence one way or the other, is completely disproportional!!

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-...dc-2022-05-10/

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a report published on Tuesday.

African Americans as a whole were at least four times more likely to be killed by a gun than the overall population, and 12 times more likely than a white person,

Originally Posted by Col.S Virdi

:Shocked: Is this real??? US of A is in bigger problems than we realise

I have never understood why the USA likes to call themselves the Greatest Nation of the world! Mind you, its them calling themselves, not us! I dont know of anybody or any organisation that would call itself the “greatest” and not being laughed and ridiculed!! The French tried, but failed, so now they just act superior, but at least they don’t claim to be superior anymore.

We lived for four years in the USA, 2009-2012. We have very happy and fond memories. We have many American friends and we have family living in the USA. But we will not visit the USA anymore, even if you paid us. It is a very despicable and utterly wrong society these days. Very sad. I see it only getting worse, not better.

Jeroen

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Oh, me, me, me. If you read the original post from 2007, I have explained the circumstances.

I have not been to NCC so I would not know much about how it goes on there regarding various trainings. How it happens elsewhere (where firing is given very high importance) is, first theory classes go on, then several classes with a rifle. First without live cartridges, getting one used to, to different positions and letting the arms and muscles get used to holding the rifle for prolonged periods. Then after several days of toying around actual firing commences. Then moving on to different calibres and rifles, if imbibed in the training. Once this is done if the training offers or if the trainee is entitled to, handgun training takes place in a similar fashion.

Handguns are much more susceptible to anything going wrong than compared to a rifle.

Nevertheless, the drill with the rifle, typically an INSAS 556 nowadays, an SLR 7.62 earlier or a .303 before that would be done. The drill is a pain for almost everyone. Though it is a supreme requirement for imbibing discipline. The drill with a heavy rifle is obviously painful. 556 is lighter than the SLRs though, making it slightly easier for the trainee.

The next pain is to get your rifle inspected by the Kote (armoury) incharge. He has a keen eye for any aberrations and getting it passed ok by him is a slight challenge. The other pain is the sound of the fellows firing their rifles alongside you. Yet another pain is to assist your fellow with a fired case catcher, generally your cap, and making sure no fired case goes missing. Which eventually is missed by atleast one trainee and the whole 'gang' gets it. While standing right beside a firing rifle opens your ears like nothing else does. It is a big pain indeed.

Letting aside these 'pains' I have never seen anyone not atleast slightly happy after their firings. The happiness is owed not to pulling the trigger but to the overall activity involved from taking the position, holding the rifle correctly, firing at your own time after the whistle by the instructor and getting a good shot group and and affirmation from your instructor about the whole thing. A bad group sadly results in more ragda (punishment).
Never heard anyone complaining of recoil by a 5.56 or 7.62. It is just a jerk if you hold the weapon properly and firmly. After each fire, your muzzle should come back to the original position so as not to mess up the subsequent aim and firing. This requires a lot of resolve and training.As the trainee matures, the 'pains' become a job to be got done and the actual firing becomes a joy for some while just a job for others. Depends on the trainee's personality. There is no way somebody could decide to not show up.

In an advanced training one is issued a weapon of choice and basic training is done away with from day one.

I have not been to a civilian training, so can't comment on that.

Originally Posted by Samurai

This applies to the second group from above. So it is not a contradiction.

It is indeed a contradiction because either there is no dopamine release for anyone or if there is a dopamine release only for a select few then there was no point in mentioning the two things in the first place in the way they were; as dopamine release would depend on the type of person doing the activity (firing a gun in this case). Not all of the people from your 2nd group would be getting the dopamine release.

Not all people who have to regularly fire in a range or in the practical world like it. Some just want to get the job done like they get other jobs done. Some like firing too much (might be getting dopamine release), so much so that when they practice with their rifle but without any cartridge, just making tak-tak sounds from their mouths to let their buddy know (who is holding a piece of paper target with a pencil to mark the point when he hears the tak sound), they feel the same like when they fire a live rifle.

Consider taxi drivers who drive a lot, drive quite well, perfectly well, but don't at all like driving. Some dislike it so much that they loathe it. It is just a chore for them. Albeit, their dopamine release might be coming from the fact that they don't have to sit in an office all day reporting to someone else.

As I perceived, your posts seemed to connote firing or owning guns to a negative shade. I'd apologise if my perception is wrong or if it was not your intention.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Well, true.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by AROO7

As for the first part, Sir let me give you another perspective. In Uttar Pradesh (U.P.) firearm possession legal and illegal is a must-have (more as a deterrent and not as a means of flexing your clout) if you are involved in trades or a profession that involves a lot of rubbing shoulders with people in power or involves a lot of money.

There is more on this that could be added. U.P., Bihar and M.P. have been places where youth from rural areas used to carry guns or other personal weapons, properly trained, since as back as the 16th century if not further back. Post 1857, the youth was properly disarmed in British India, physically and psychologically. Weapons/guns are a part of heritage as a reminiscence of the things that remained. That is how we see so many gun lovers from those areas even today. You can read more on this in the book "A Call to Honour" by Jaswant Singh among many other notable books. Some families still own prohibited bores in a legal manner due to inheritance of such old weapons that date back to British times or somewhat near the partition.

Originally Posted by AROO7

As per your stating that guns are sold as commodities, I don't think that's true. I will quote for my place (Lucknow) of course you can spot gun shops but it is limited to a particular market and a particular area.

I mentioned Meerut and Muzaffarnagar. One can see rice, cakes and electronics shops adjacent to gun shops. The business is not so good though these days due to receding demand. I'm pretty sure a person from Lucknow would not be even remotely as alarmed as my dear friend from Hyderabad whom I mentioned earlier about his emotion of seeing a gun shop for the first time in his life.

Lucknow and Meerut are on different planets though when it comes to arms. Had you mentioned Pratapgarh, I'd have understood better

Originally Posted by AROO7

As for traveling, from South to U.P. part is concerned I request you to just have a trip to Punjab. Or save the trouble and look at the records and the number of firearms possessed by all the civilians in Punjab. I don't take pride in saying that but it has now become a mini Texas. As per third-party data civilians there possess 15 times the number of weapons compared to the police personnel, which by law mandates should not exceed 2.5 times.

It will be great if you can spare time sharing some source on this data.

I read many years back that U.P. had 1/3rd share of licensed weapons in the country and it has stuck with me since. I'm pretty sure if this data is correct (which I'm sure is) would not have changed much in the last few years given the stringent laws and legal hassles of getting a new license for arms.

Also, if the illegal bearing of arms is as prevalent as described by you (that is what you are pointing at, right?), then the strict gun control in our country is simply not working. Bans don't work anyways, be it banning cigarettes, liquor, Android apps or curbing the internet etc.

Originally Posted by AROO7

As for the second part, I can tell you sir NCC training is more than just firing the gun.

No doubt about it. NCC churns fantastic leaders who excel in all walks of life afterwards. Be it in the armed forces or otherwise. NCC is the first step for most youths to experience first hand how it would be in the real world afterwards.

Originally Posted by AROO7

As for the dopamine rush that comes from firing a gun, I believe firing range and air guns are the best places and means to experience that.

Dopamine rush has been mentioned not by me but another member originally. And in several different threads, probably by the same member.
Firing ranges are best to hone skills, like there are tracks to hone driving/riding skills.

Originally Posted by AROO7

Channel the energy in the right direction.

Channeling the energy in the right direction is what firing a gun is about, incidentally. Fire a gun or read a book or clean the floor, learn and do it religiously and honestly. If I can put it properly, some read Chetan Bhagat or the likes and brag about it, we can't get the point and neither do the bragger.


One member has mentioned a coloured guy with a bandana pointing a rifle at him and then scaring them away. We see muscular guys with bandanas on the forehead and get scared of them stereotyping and insinuating them. I'm of the opinion the guy was as scared of the 2 approaching sedans, if not more. He might have a family inside, small children, and got scared of the slow and strange sedan movement around his property, that too a dead end. He pointed a rifle (empty maybe?) to deter any untoward incident which apparently might be normal in that area of USA. Better to try pre-empt than regret later. I might be completely wrong though.

[AROO7]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

It will be great if you can spare time sharing some source on this data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtVotUetU-I

Although the video is on a different topic but it covers the gun ownership point I stated in my post.

See demographics also play a major role in how the gun culture evolves in the region. If things are strict in Lucknow it will soon be in the other cities too. You will be shocked to know in recent years how many gangsters surrendered at the police station of their own free will. I count them as a handful of guns off the street.

As the argument regarding the gun shop being side-by-side with other shops selling daily necessities. You need to understand sir that India has a high per square kilometer population. Think about the shop's location from that perspective.

[drive on]

The gun culture and corresponding violence emanating from it is only the manifestation of the symptom. The symptoms are much more deep rooted into their social- cultural ethos. Broken families, crumbling social support system, challenges of single parenting (no offence to any one), inaccessible higher education, race and class conflict, drug issues are only just few which lead to such bewildered violent actions. Unless such things are not addressed, even if guns are banned, the violence will find its way through other means.

[car love]

Vast majority of the comments here are deriding in nature about the US of A. Sure, the gun culture there is bizarre to almost everyone outside the US and for many inside too. There are questions being asked as to how "Greatest nation on earth" tag came about or whether it is self coined status!
Guns are not just weapons for very many Americans. It is part of a deep psyche of independence, free will, liberty etc. We may not agree with it and certainly I do not too and consider it a social evil.
Every county has its issues and so does the US of A. Don't we have evils like Dowry, Caste based atrocities, Child marriage etc? They may be technically banned is isn't it widely prevalent? The US may not be the greatest country but it certainly up there. Almost all major inventions and devices we use today is because of their independent thinking and free will.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by AROO7

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=KtVotUetU-I

Although the video is on a different topic but it covers the gun ownership point I stated in my post.

I couldn't watch the video after the initial 1 minute or so.

Originally Posted by AROO7

If things are strict in Lucknow it will soon be in the other cities too.

What things are you talking about?

Originally Posted by AROO7

You will be shocked to know in recent years how many gangsters surrendered at the police station of their own free will. I count them as a handful of guns off the street.

Please shock me sir.

Originally Posted by AROO7

As the argument regarding the gun shop being side-by-side with other shops selling daily necessities. You need to understand sir that India has a high per square kilometer population. Think about the shop's location from that perspective.

I am not sure where are you getting at with this. And what does it have to do with whatever I said? Did I contest gun shops or their presence?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by car love

Almost all major inventions and devices we use today is because of their independent thinking and free will.

Depends a bit on definition and how you count, but if you google it, most of your searches are likely to tell you it is actually Great Britain.

Jeroen

[embee]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I cannot wrap my head around this pic and its absurdness. How can such a country continue to be called a world leader?

PS: Photo freely available in the internet and hence not blurring the faces.

This is surely from the state of Texas (that's what is says on the red t-shirt of the kid). Texans just love their guns. They just keep boasting and quoting their second amendment rights to own guns. In my opinion, I don't think this state of affairs can change ever.

[casnov]

I’m a huge fan of Richard North Patterson. Read this book. Absolutely gripping.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I'll go ahead and post something in favor of fun owners

After watching your posted video, found another video in his channel. In this one he claims to have had a change of heart, turning from anti gun ownership to pro gun ownership. He tries to portray how he was wrong in an older video of his about being pro gun control. The video as well as the comments are worth a watch.

He basically says guns make freedom of citizens intact. Also mentions Switzerland and the role of guns in their society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fKO1-hE2Wg

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

The video as well as the comments are worth a watch.

Each to its own. Nothing new. Whilst I would agree any person can change their mind on any topic any time, somehow this comes across as to much of a PR stunt.

The guy is almost comically brainwashed with the typical NRA crappy type of thinking. He could be their poster child.

It's also very obvious he has never ever read a history book.

Whilst he rambles on, look at this, another weekend in the greatest nation on earth;

Three more mass shootings take place in separate US cities — Philadelphia, Chattanooga and Michigan

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-...ties/101127896

At least 12 dead in another weekend of mass shootings across America

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rica-rcna32059

Just came across this one, which is sort of funny, but sad too!



Jeroen

[avira_tk]

My advice to those going on about guns killing people try reading up on SSRIs and their link to this phenomenon.

Those who are all about the police protecting you, guess what, the police did nothing while the shooting was going on in the school.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Each to its own. Nothing new. Whilst I would agree any person can change their mind on any topic any time, somehow this comes across as to much of a PR stunt.

The guy is almost comically brainwashed with the typical NRA crappy type of thinking. He could be their poster child.

Not really, he's not comically brainwashed, his comedy routine is awesome. He really rips apart the woke nonsense that's made entertainment unbearable because of feelings based hysteria. He knows enough history to know that disarming the population is the first step to tyrannical violence.

The US cities which have the worst gun violence have the strictest gun laws, it's almost as if making murder illegal didn't solve the problem.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The US cities which have the worst gun violence have the strictest gun laws...

Huh?

These sources seem to suggest exactly the opposite:

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542.long
https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/

"The permissiveness or restrictiveness of state gun laws is associated with the rate of mass shootings in the US. States with more permissive gun laws and greater gun ownership have higher rates of mass shootings, and a growing divergence is noted in recent years as rates of mass shootings in restrictive states have decreased and those in permissive states have increased."

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by am1m

Huh?

These sources seem to suggest exactly the opposite:

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542.long
https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/

"The permissiveness or restrictiveness of state gun laws is associated with the rate of mass shootings in the US. States with more permissive gun laws and greater gun ownership have higher rates of mass shootings, and a growing divergence is noted in recent years as rates of mass shootings in restrictive states have decreased and those in permissive states have increased."

I was talking about cities, mass murders are rare, however shootings are just not news in large cities as it doesn't fit the whole gun violence narrative.

The study doesn't have a method to find actual gun ownership percentage, it uses suicide as a proxy, that's really confusing. Vermont is on top of the chart as more people commit suicide than murder with guns, a ratio of nearly 8:1. The classification of gun lawvpermissiveness is purely subjective.