[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

The fault is not with having guns, it is having guns with wrong people.

Uh, NO!

See:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ople-people-do

Spoiler alert: the conclusion:

So the next time someone says "Guns don't kill people; people do" in an attempt to end a discussion about gun control, do me a favor: Point out that they have “mistaken the relevance of proximate causation,” pause briefly to enjoy the confused look on their face, and then patiently explain the fallacy to them

More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows
More firearms do not keep people safe, hard numbers show. Why do so many Americans believe the opposite?

Source:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

Jeroen

[apachelongbow]

A gun or any weapon will imbibe a false sense of power and security. It is a psychological response and it will happen to all of us in varying measures. People trained in weapon combat and tactics are thought on how to overcome these feelings and use the weapon like a tool that it is.

Let's take a common example. In traffic some biker scratches your beautiful car and tries to run away. What is your first response? It is an insane anger coupled with a 'how dare he?' and the instinct to chase the biker down and corner him. What if you had a loaded gun on your dashboard? The easiest reaction would be to point the gun and the fleeing biker and shoot. This reaction is almost autonomous as we see in the loutish thug behaviour of the gun toting public in ncr.

The first rule of any confrontation is to try and diffuse it and by brandishing your gun or any other weapon you are doing the exact opposite i.e. escalating the situation.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Uh, NO!

Jeroen

Seeing your sources, clearly I'm wrong. There is ample research supporting the two sources cited above. There is no doubt about that. One could read endlessly on it. But there is something that makes me go, 'dil hai ki manta nhi' (the heart doesn't accept). If there is a crowd of people against gun ownership, I'd be seen in that crowd too.

Given the kind of awareness and mindset of masses in the country, it is blissful that we have strict gun control in our country. I sometimes hope the same was extended to vehicle ownership too.

Not to argue further or elicit response or arouse sentiments but to make a subtle point out of one of the two articles; guns are made to kill but are mostly used for defense, cars are made to transport but often kill. Both are tools that go wrong in the wrong hands.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

S

Not to argue further or elicit response or arouse sentiments but to make a subtle point out of one of the two articles; guns are made to kill but are mostly used for defense, cars are made to transport but often kill. Both are tools that go wrong in the wrong hands.

Your response suggest you did not read the first article. Because if you had, you would have known he makes mince meat of those using the gun car analogy.

consider this argument (given in the aftermath of a bad car accident):

"Cars don't kill people; people do."

Obviously cars should not be illegal, but notice that this has nothing to do with the fact that they are proximate causes. Of course, they should be regulated; I shouldn't be allowed to go onto the highway in a car with no brakes. But all of that has to do what cars are for (they are not made for killing people), what role they play in society (it couldn't function without them) and so on. It's a complicated issue—one to which pointing out that cars are merely proximate causes to some deaths contributes nothing.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Your response suggest you did not read the first article. Because if you had, you would have known he makes mince meat of those using the gun car analogy.

I read both the articles quite well.
Then only I deliberately commented about cars and guns in my last paragraph. And I'm definitely not arguing in favour or against gun ownership.

I'd reiterate, cars indeed have a noble purpose of transportation. Guns have a noble purpose too, to kill. The author seems to be making his perspective of tools (cars and guns) generic. It could be generic and agreeable to people with the same perspective. Not so much to others. Peace.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Guns have a noble purpose too, to kill. The author seems to be making his perspective of tools (cars and guns) generic. It could be generic and agreeable to people with the same perspective. Not so much to others. Peace.

I presume Guns nobility can be attributed to saving ones life too. Similarly, in the event of an attack, it can be a good defensive object too.
Though, I do not favour Guns for everyone, a good object becomes a notorious when in evil hands
Yes, Cars are greatly counted as useful for transportation, but have been used to run over innocent victims too. These have been filled with explosive and used to crash on to incoming vehicle.
In short, nothing is good or bad - it is the way it is used.

[panamera13]

I'm a gun owner (Glock 19 and LWRC DI AR15) and I use it as a hobby/sport and ONLY at the range. I took a safety class on how to handle a firearm and I follow all protocols while at the range.

However, being in US/Texas - I wish there were no guns and I see senseless violence everywhere and I see people take out/flash guns even for silly road incidents. Only law enforcement should have guns (and of course bad guys will somehow get them)....but many ppl die just because they're just so easily available.

In norway, police does NOT carry guns normally on patrols. They need permission/approval on case by case basis to even carry guns...but yeah...their society is different.

In India if we had guns, there would be mayhem, it will never happen thank god.

PS: I got my Glock 19 at a store where I went to buy shoes (outdoor stuff store so they have hunting/firearms etc) and just happened to see the firearms section in the back. Back then I was on H1B work visa and I told the guy I really like to Glock 19 and he said he would need to run a background check to see if he can sell it to me. I said - "oh no, it's ok , I was just curious about the process". He asked for my license (which had a BIG red words- TEMP WORKER) and within 15 seconds, he told my background check is clear and he sold me the gun. The process took 5 mins including payment/packaging etc. They escorted me out and handed the package once I was out of the store (normal process in Texas). Since then Texas has become an "Open Carry" state, which means I can show my gun/holster openly at public places (Private places like office/restaurants/malls still don't allow and have big signs that warn you from bringing firearms inside)

I can't even bring up the topic of "gun control" with my colleagues/friends/neighbors....it's a very touchy subject. They all want guns (second amendment)

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by panamera13

(Private places like office/restaurants/malls still don't allow and have big signs that warn you from bringing firearms inside)

I can't even bring up the topic of "gun control" with my colleagues/friends/neighbors....it's a very touchy subject. They all want guns (second amendment)

I recognise all of this. We have signs on all our offices in the USA warning people guns are not allowed on the premises. Not all offices have those signs, mind you.

But for instance our Plano HQ office does, which means there are about 4500 cars, trucks and pickup trucks in the parking lot with guns in them!

We lived in Kansas and Missouri and guns were a huge thing here too. Not only guns, anything that would kill! I had a guy working for me, who every Friday afternoon would head out in his truck into the wilderness. He would climb in a tree and shoot deer with a crossbow! That’s what he did, sit in a tree all weekend, waiting for a deer to come near so he could shoot it with an arrow.

We never ever talked about guns or politics in Texas, Kansas or Missouri with friends or colleagues? Very different from the west coast.

We enjoyed our years in the auSA tremendously, but some things were very weird and alien to us.

Jeroen

[nitinsharma1000]

Originally Posted by panamera13

I'm a gun owner (Glock 19 and LWRC DI AR15) and I use it as a hobby/sport and ONLY at the range.

The G19X was a contender for me. But I went with the M18 because of my soft spot for the Marine Corps.

[aquavivarium]

18 more kids dead in Texas, can US wake up and amend it's Constitution.
Now it has become a fundamental right to kill.
Serious action required by administration, to say the least.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by aquavivarium

18 more kids dead in Texas, can US wake up and amend it's Constitution.
Now it has become a fundamental right to kill.
Serious action required by administration, to say the least.

There are politicians(and people) who still think that the answer to this is having more guns in the hands of everyone!!

[deathwalkr]

Originally Posted by aquavivarium

18 more kids dead in Texas, can US wake up and amend it's Constitution.
Now it has become a fundamental right to kill.
Serious action required by administration, to say the least.

When i read the news and saw "elementary school" my heart just skipped a beat. Extremely sad news to hear right in the morning. Biden as previous presidents has called for strict looksee into gun laws, will things change?

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by aquavivarium

18 more kids dead in Texas, can US wake up and amend it's Constitution.
Now it has become a fundamental right to kill.
Serious action required by administration, to say the least.

I just can’t fathom what it would feel for a parent to outlive their children. As they say, “the smallest coffins are the heaviest”!

I think the only way the US can get out of this cycle of violence is through external pressure. Everytime a leader of democratic country visits the US, they should publicly call for tougher gun laws. The US political system has become so dysfunctional that I don’t think they can fix this problem on their own anymore.

[antz.bin]

I have been binge watching '13 Reasons Why' on Netflix which, in season 2, had an incident similar to the latest one in Texas. The boy in the web-series had his reasons for attempting such an act but the ease with which he had access to an assault-rifle was bone-chilling. I understand that the Netflix show is fictional but looking at the frequency of these incidents in the real world, fiction is not too far from reality.

The solution is not to turn the place into Mirzapur (another web-series) and hand out guns to everyone. Such a situation will only increase gun-violence related deaths.

For their own safety and that of their children, it is imperative that gun ownership is restricted in the US. It takes political will to do the right thing even if it will end up hurting re-election chances. The question is, do they have it in them to do the right thing?

Guns don't kill, people do. But people can't use guns to kill if they don't have such easy access. Not being able to sell guns to the public will be bad for business but so is the death of 18 kids between 7-10 yrs yesterday.

[Samurai]

The moment someone runs for election as a republican candidate, they have to resort these kind of promotions. This fellow is household name in USA for decades. He is running in a northern state. Yet he was compelled to publish such a video to pretend his love for guns. One can only imagine what no name republicans in the south have to do.

Therefore, you can expect nothing to change.

https://youtu.be/J59yo3XQNQ8