[ranjitnair77]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

No offence intended, but my wife and I were always somewhat puzzled as to why Indians insisted on seeing a doctor for themselves, their parents, and their kids, whenever they sneezed or felt a bit under the weather.

Here in the Netherlands, nobody will call their GP just because they have the flu and are running a fever. You can call your GP if you worry and you get to talk to the medical assistant.

I thought about this observation and I feel this could be because of India's tropical climate and it's associated diseases. Dengue, malaria and chikungunya which are vector borne. Or variations of Jaundice, Influenza and Respiratory viruses and several other seasonal viruses. Many of these can cause sudden deterioration of health and hospitalisations and often start with fever and body ache. You have to be especially careful with the young ones and the comorbid.

I suspect that's why we tend to immediately visit a doctor if the fever persists overnight. The fact that almost all of us have a friendly, immediately accessible family doctor just makes that approach a no-brainer.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Whatever common sense is likely to be is in the eye of the beholder. We are, when all is said and done, a calvanistic country. So a bit of suffering and pain is considered par for the course. My wife, being British/Bajan, was appalled at the Dutch attitude towards labour. Our eldest was born in 1985 in Brighton, the UK. My wife got an epidural and a five-day stay, courtesy of the NHS and the UK Tax Payer. Our second son was born in the Netherlands. Which has a strong tradition of giving birth at home and only going to the hospital at the last minute, if at all. You give birth, get a cup of tea and you're kicked out. What do you mean by epidural? It's just a bit of pain, very natural!!

Sorry to offend you Jeroen but home births are just medieval. Home births are directly linked to increased complications both for the mother and the baby. I come from a family of doctors including three gynecologists - this is something they all agree with. It is an unnecessary risk to take in a country with such a robust healthcare system. Having lived in Belgium, even the Flemish are dumbfounded by this practice (perhaps the Dutch argument is that the Flemish have a lower threshold for pain )

You can't even just barge into the ER here in the Netherlands. During GP practice hours you will need to contact your GP first. You will need to talk to the nurse practitioner first. When things are really bad, she might, reluctantly, tell you to come into the GP practice to consult with the doctor. The GP will determine whether you can go to the ER!

IIRC, this is a bit different in Belgium. You can enter the ER without a GP consultation but only if you pay a sizable payment.

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

However I am surprised to hear your take on Qatar and its NatGas, although prices are nowhere near what they were at the start of Russia Ukraine war, they are still higher that from before the war. Plenty of my friends have gotten jobs in Qatar and they get remunerated quite well.

Make no mistake, those working in Qatari fossil fuel companies like Qatargas and their suppliers are doing very well - the highest salaries in the Gulf by far. But other industries such as construction are suffering due to a glut in capacity from overbuilding for the World Cup.

[Clouseau]

Originally Posted by sunilch

Relax mates, dragonfire was being sarcastic here while agreeing with your view point @Jeroen. He was perhaps referring to the case here in India where political parties dole out freebies in many forms during elections to their target vote bank and then ensure they remain in that poor state (relatively) for the next five years. And then the cycle repeats.

Having spent 4 years growing up in the UK and 3 years working in the US - I can say this...it's very hard to generalize what's great and what's not. You should definitely try to experience life abroad if you want but you must be aware of what you're getting into from multiple perspectives. These include the conditions of healthcare, domestic help, employability, education etc.

I certainly don't regret spending time abroad and made many good friends there, while trying to act like a local.
But what i will say with absolute certainty is be prepared to have to sacrifice on some front/s.

Cheers!

[fuzzydealhunter]

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

You can say my data is based on anecdotal experiences of my own in Ontario and my friends spread across the country.

In general though minus the wait times, my experience with the healthcare has been okay thankfully. Colleague in the office recently had children, and got very very nice treatment.

Think you should then preface wait times you are sharing as being anecdotal. I am all for painting a realistic view but the numbers you had shared were off by pretty huge margins, in the case of MRI by as much as 50%.

Going back to my university days, my prof always said "Data sets you free". Always have data to back up your claims or put a disclaimer.

I was able to get in to see a Cardio specialist within a week last july, that does not mean I can claim that as the standard. With your two years in Canada I dont doubt you have a very deep social network that has provided you with lots of insights but keep in mind everyone sharing might also be sharing second hand data that again is subject to hyperbole. Always dig into the data, it will set you free. I just had to chime in when the numbers looked a little too unrealistic.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Rich Indians have this fascination of going abroad typically USA, sometimes the UK, for complex treatment. Many pleaded with me that this was a serious error. Some strongly hinted when you can afford it why are you not going to USA

I guess they have not seen nor have experienced the complexities involved in getting treated abroad.

There are some positive and some negatives about the system in India and how it compares to another part of the world.

I share a few examples.

My parents are visiting us. We asked them to extend their stay by a month. My folks did not have sufficient stock of their medicines to extend their stay so we thought of looking at local substitutes. In order to buy these local substitutes, you need a local doctors prescription. The one from India is invalid which took us by surprise as we didn't get those prescriptions from some quack doctor. How can a Qualified Doctors prescription from another country be invalid! Alright, I make my peace with that and move on. We are a Developing Country and a Developed Country may have the upper hand. I walk into our usual GP and ask how to get a Doctors Appointment for my parents. Not possible. They are not registered nor can they be registered under a visitors visa. We need to go to Emergency Care. Okay, thats all well and good. Emergency care costs $250 per patient and thats just to get a prescription. My folks do not require any treatment whatsoever. Such is the system.

In the end, we made a few phone calls to India and their medicines were Fed Ex-ed to New Zealand. We spent $125 and it took 6 days to arrive. Problem solved.

My son suffered a brief window of motor tic. This passes over time but we did not know and had bit of a panic moment. We have one hospital. Thats it. We went in and had to wait 4 hours to meet the doctor. As there's aren't enough Doctors. The priority for the medical system is to attend to Emergencies and there seems to be plenty enough coming in that kept us waiting for that long, just to get 10 minutes with a doctor. This happened twice which lead me to believe, this is how it is. In India, we would have made one phone call and headed to the respective clinic or hospital and got attended to immediately. There are no private clinics in NZ.

This next bit goes into where Developed Part of the world aces us. May not be all parts of the world. Our kiwi friends kid suffers from Guillain-Barré syndrome. It happened out of the blue. Once you get this, its treatment for life. Depending on severity, you wil be cut open multiple times. The Starship Children's Hospital in Auckland has taken care of this child at no cost to the parents. I'm not sure how the system works in detail. The surgeries and treatment this child has had would have put them in debt a long time ago, had it not been for free medical care. In India, you'll probably go flat broke as well, pleading for money, taking a bank loan, etc to get your child treated. There is almost zero Government Medical support. I am guessing its not possible due to our population size.

Thats my experience. India definitely aces in Medical Care and Treatment. If you have the cash reserves, you can get the best of treatment. On our last visit to India, I visited a hospital in Calicut that looked like a 5 Star Hotel. I was shocked. I have never seen anything like it. There is new money and people who can afford it, want the best and why not.

That said, we can also improve accessibility. Folks who can't access the best of medical care still have a hard time as its not affordable. That needs to change.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

There is almost zero Government Medical support.

There is. We just don't know about them. By we, I mean, almost everyone reading this.

There are several Central / State Govt. / Municipal Corporation schemes that allow for free treatment, not just in Govt. clinics and hospitals but even private ones.

Eg. 1) Someone I know recently underwent cataract surgery at a very reputed super specialty hospital. While they paid ~35k/eye for the surgery, 8/10 patients alongside them in the ward were beneficiaries of some or the other Govt. healthcare scheme. Total cost to them was negligible: a couple of thousand at most for the eye drops.

2) Do you know almost every injection necessary / mandated for newborns to toddlers are available for free / at minimal cost at Govt. run clinics. When most of us pay tens of thousands, the same can be had for a huge fraction of the cost.

Sure, the middle / upper middle class has very superior access to healthcare, but saying there is no Govt. support is grossly untrue.

There is new money and people who can afford it, want the best and why not.

Actually, it is because everyone now has insurance. Which is a very dangerous double edged sword.

While it does make healthcare accessible, it has made healthcare costs skyrocket tremendously and made the whole thing a well oiled business.

In many instances, specialist doctors are shutting independent clinics and becoming a part of corporate chains. And that has brought about a growing importance on financial goals.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

There is almost zero Government Medical support. I am guessing its not possible due to our population size.

As rightly said by @libran, there is a lot of support on ground. We (urban elite) do not know or ignore it for more comfortable aspects. As these hospitals would be crowded and one will have to wait and go through additional process/steps. Especially in the urban setups, sometimes the support is almost at par with private hospitals at times, just without the creature comforts.

But it is not consistent / same across the country. What our family maid's family gets in Chennai is not the same what my maid is able to get in Bangalore. And definitely not the case as one goes rural. @V.Narayan could expand a lot more on this as some of his philanthropy work is in this space only.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

There is. We just don't know about them. By we, I mean, almost everyone reading this.

There are several Central / State Govt. / Municipal Corporation schemes that allow for free treatment, not just in Govt. clinics and hospitals but even private ones.

+1 to this.

[Jeroen]

Some members might feel the current discussion on this thread is going off topic. I believe a country's healthcare system, and thus for instance access to that system, and how childbirth works says a lot about the culture of a country. And as such it would be useful to look into these things, if and when you are considering moving to such a country!

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Sorry to offend you Jeroen but home births are just medieval.

Well, not really. Look it up childbirth moved from home to hospitals around the 1940s in most western countries. Started probably a little earlier in countries such as the USA, possibly the UK

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Home births are directly linked to increased complications both for the mother and the baby. I come from a family of doctors including three gynaecologists - this is something they all agree with. It is an unnecessary risk to take in a country with such a robust healthcare system. Having lived in Belgium, even the Flemish are dumbfounded by this practice (perhaps the Dutch argument is that the Flemish have a lower threshold for pain )

Those sorts of comments are usually made by people who look at childbirth at home as an isolated incident. Without very little or no pre and post-birth care. As you would see in many developing and third world countries unfortunately.

Your comments are a good example of how many of us have or form opinions without really understanding, in-depth, what it is all about.

Let's just first look at what matters at the end; maternal mortality ratio! According to the latest UNICEF figures Belgium and the Netherlands are identical. Very low compared to almost all other countries in the world.

(Note: The maternal mortality ratio (MMR) is defined as the number of maternal deaths during a given period per 100,000 live births during the same period.)


It varies a bit year over year, but for both countries, it has always been pretty good.

What you need to take into account is that in the Netherlands the practice of childbirth at home is based on a very elaborate system of very early and continuous pre-birth and post-birth monitoring of the mother (to be) and the foetus/baby.

It is not the at-home birth in the Netherlands that is unique, still happens in many countries around the world. What is unique is the fact Dutch women have independent choices on how and where they want to give birth. And how the Dutch medical system supports and facilitates that choice.

I am quoting the next couple of paragraphs from the Dutch Centre of intangible cultural heritage.

With a home birth, the midwife is medically responsible; he/she monitors the process of the birth and guides the woman. It is the woman who chooses to give birth at home in her own bed, under her own shower or in a birthing pool. During labour, the autonomy of the woman giving birth (and her partner) is assumed; her wishes are respected. There is time and space to 'move along’ with the birth; protocols play less of a role at home than in a hospital.

When labour is in its advanced stages, the midwife calls on the assistance of the maternity assistant. She or he assists the midwife and supports the woman giving birth and her partner. After the birth, the maternity assistant usually stays with the family for eight days during the day.

Although it is possible to give birth safely at home in some Western countries, such as Flanders, Great Britain or Canada, this is only done on a large scale in the Netherlands. In the Netherlands, the combination of obstetrics and maternity care ensures that a woman is well looked after from the beginning of her pregnancy until well after the birth. Where it is medically responsible, mothers can give birth to their babies in their own homes, under the supervision of the midwife and with the assistance of the maternity assistant. The pregnant woman and the midwife have often already built up a relationship in the early stages of pregnancy.

Today's home birth culture is the result of a series of legal-medical decisions, which have made it possible to establish a separate branch of obstetrics and maternity care in the Netherlands, based on a number of intangible cultural values such as 'autonomy/we decide for ourselves', a 'natural process' and 'being at home'. The freedom of choice of the woman and her partner to decide where the birth takes place is an important core value in this respect.

Certain groups of obstetricians, maternity nurses and (prospective) parents make efforts to safeguard the Dutch culture of home births, because of cultural aspects and for medical reasons.

Midwives who are affiliated with the Koninklijke Nederlandse Organisatie van Verloskundigen (KNOV) (Royal Dutch Organisation of Midwives) and maternity carers who are affiliated with the Nederlandse Beroepsvereniging voor Kraamverzorgenden (NBvK) (Dutch Professional Association of Maternity Carers) supervise home births and provide support during the maternity period.

These two professional organisations recognise the home birth as part of the Dutch identity and culture, and they are committed to safeguarding this practice safely and responsibly, in cooperation and coordination with midwives’ and gynaecologists’ organisations. The aim is to prevent a natural process from being unnecessarily medicalised and to interpret the medical and cultural values of home birth. Many midwives and maternity nurses experience their contribution to home birth and the postpartum period as a vocation.

Furthermore, women and their partners in the fertile phase of life who wish to have children are, of course, practitioners of this heritage when they consciously choose a home birth.

In the Middle Ages, midwives attended births at home on a 'birthing chair' or couch, and maternity care was provided by 'monthly nurses' who were often attached to old tried and tested methods.

In the seventeenth century, training in midwifery came into being; in 1865, the Thorbecke Act regulated that medicine and midwifery could only be practised by people who were trained for it. As in neighbouring countries, maternity clinics were set up in the Netherlands, but thanks to the well-trained and independent midwives, most women could still give birth at home in the Netherlands. At the beginning of the twentieth century, a new course in maternity care was offered, which led to what is now the profession of maternity care.

With the establishment of the midwife's competencies in Dutch law, the seeds were sown for a strongly independent position of midwives compared to other Western countries. The difference with the rest of the world was that midwives in the Netherlands were trained as independent medical professionals, while elsewhere they fell under the responsibility of doctors. The independent position of midwives goes hand in hand with a certain degree of freedom in supervising deliveries at home.

The combination of obstetrics with a period of maternity care at home is also unique to the Netherlands. Here, the midwives form an autonomous profession within birth care, from which the KNOV, among others, derives its right to exist.

• Counterbalance the culture of fear and control among (prospective) pregnant women and their partners by highlighting the medical benefits of home birth and explaining the physiology of the birth process, To be able to make a well-considered choice, expectant parents must be informed about the safety of giving birth at home.
• Convey that home birth is part of the Dutch intangible culture and indicate the importance of the underlying values, namely: freedom of choice, autonomy, 'being at home' and not medicalise unnecessarily.
• Create awareness that there is a real risk of home births disappearing as a result of increasing medicalisation of births, which puts the freedom of choice of women at risk.
• Clarify scientific articles on home birth by 'translating' them to the public, and disseminate positive birth experiences through social media and journalists.
• Provide more information on safe home births, both to our own professional groups and in schools and training courses. Draw up an action plan for the next few years including visits to schools, dissemination of information through social media (Facebook, Instagram) etc.

I hope this illustrates that Dutch childbirth at home, can not be compared to the average home birth anywhere in the world. It is a careful choice, with very experienced and highly medically qualified midwife that simply (to the best of my knowledge) does not exist anywhere else in the world.

Most importantly it is the woman who decides, what she wants. In close consultation with various medical staff long before the birth and it also continues along the same lines post-birth.

As long as you can indicate any medical risk early on during the pregnancy you can still decide to give birth in the hospital.

Our daughter wanted to give birth at home and so she did. It was an interesting experience how Dutch midwife go with the flow. When she was dilating she was getting uncomfortable. The midwife said it would take a few more hours and suggested she should have a bath. So she got into the bath (at home obviously), She felt a lot more comfortable in the warm water. The midwife asked if the wanted to stay in the bath and give birth in the bath. Which she did. And our daughter was very pleased with how it all went.

But again, the most important thing is that Dutch women get very good care and constant monitoring as soon as they discover they are pregnant. From very onwards the advantages and disadvantages of home birth vv hospital are discussed. A lot depends also on how the pregnancy develops over time. Another consideration is how far you are from a hospital. Obviously, the Netherlands is a very small country. But there are places where it might take 45-60 minutes between the call to an ambulance and arriving at the hospital ward. So all these aspects are discussed with the mother and her partner. In the end the mother decides.

Jeroen

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

As rightly said by @libran, there is a lot of support on ground

Originally Posted by libranof1987

There is. We just don't know about them. Sure, the middle / upper middle class has very superior access to healthcare, but saying there is no Govt. support is grossly untrue.

Okay. That is good to hear.

Actually, it is because everyone now has insurance. Which is a very dangerous double edged sword.

We are following or headed down the same path as the USA model. So yeah. Not a nice thing. Without insurance, you're probably a sitting duck.

I sort of sensed this direction about 14 years ago. We were having a child. The first doctor we approached who was associated to one of the big hospitals in Bangalore scared the living daylights out of us. They made it sound like some 'package pregnancy' deal. It was hilarious. They were so casual in saying that you could claim it out of Insurance. We finally went to St. Philomena's Hospital. Totally different experience and made us feel right at home. We did claim Insurance and it was fraction of what the big hospital said it would cost us. The experience with the Doctor and Hospital was so different. It did not feel like the objective was to make money. Hope they stay true to this.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Is this legal?

I don't know anything about importing medicines from a legal perspective. I imagine that if it were illegal, Fed-Ex would not have accepted the package. A Doctors prescription and exact description of the drugs (...and what they are for) were included in the consignment. These were a few strips of medicines we needed for a month. Not boxes of medicines, which would change the way NZ Customs would look at it.

Cost was not the prohibiting factor for why we imported the medicines. More important was the change in drugs that my parents will need to take (When sourced locally) post which we will need to monitor how they are doing. You'd rather stick to the pills your Doctor has prescribed versus switching back and forth. When they return to India, they'll have to flip to the locally produced drug. We don't know how that will affect them.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

There is almost zero Government Medical support. I am guessing its not possible due to our population size.
Folks who can't access the best of medical care still have a hard time as its not affordable. That needs to change.

Writing this as a knowledge sharing post rather than counter-active argumentative one.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

There is. We just don't know about them. By we, I mean, almost everyone reading this. There are several Central / State Govt. / Municipal Corporation schemes that allow for free treatment, not just in Govt. clinics and hospitals but even private ones.

Thank you libranof1987. :-)

All,

For the bottom 70% of the Indian population there are three streams of subsidized/free healthcare.

At the base are the approximately 1 million ASHA workers {Accredited Social Health Activist} almost all women. They have basic para medic training including acting as mid-wives and carry along a box of standard medicines. At my hospitals we run training and encouragement programmes for them regularly. On the whole I tip my hat to the dedication of these women in extra ordinarily difficult circumstances. They are our unsung sheroes. WHO recognizes them as Global Health Leaders. I will add sadly that they do not receive the respect and support they deserve when they touch the Govt hospital system - typical of our hierarchical, bada sahib, feudal mentality.

Next up the chain are primary health care centres at the sub-district level - about 31,000 of them. The quality and facilities vary vastly from being basic and functional to being dirty and filthy. Photo below of what a typical centre in rural India looks like - most that I have visited look like this. As you move South & West the quality improves. Centre and East err hum needs improvement aka is pathetic. The inoculation programmes for new borns and the various vaccination programmes for adults and kids including Covid19 are implemented through these centres - that is one part that actually works well.

Next up the chain are the RBSK/Ayushman finance reimbursement schemes where a card holders can access major healthcare events at a private hospital for free and the hospital gets re-imbursed for the cost through these schemes. The implementation is done by the State Govt's while funding comes from the Centre and the State's budgets. The figure re-imbursed works out to about 80% of total cost. Efficiency of implementation varies by State. In some states the scheme is tainted with corruption. In several other States it runs fairly well with re-imbursement cycles of about 4 to 5 months.

Beyond this are the Govt run hospitals. You and I won't go there but millions without a choice do. While we well off city dwellers decry the Govt system fact is that it is this system, and not the hospitals we visit, with all its faults that has brought infant mortality in India from 186.9 per 1000 live births in 1950 to 26.9 per 1000 live births today**. Same for life expectancy going up from 35.2 years in 1950 to 69.9 years in 2022.

The sheer scale of India's 1.4 billion and the fact that culture, attitudes, economics, language and geography changes by district makes implementation on the ground a monumental task. We cannot and should not compare with smaller* Western countries as the scale and complexity is 1000x or worse. Of course, there is huge room for improvement. At ground zero you find some marvelously dedicated young doctors as well as some wretched medical dept. officials whose place in hell is reserved!

*smaller by population & language, culture diversity
**for context in a typical Western country infant mortality rates would be in single digits.

Typical primary health centre.

[d.w.w.]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

There is almost zero Government Medical support.

Like others have pointed out, this is not true. Most of us here are not using it just because we have other options and we can afford better. It might be a surprise, but there are cases where you will be pushed to use govt healthcare facilities because private hospitals will not be interested in accepting high risk cases. My MIL had some heart condition and had to undergo a surgery, none of the private hospitals were ready to take her in, they ended up going to a Govt medical college and had the surgery there. The amenities and service were pretty bad as expected, but the treatment cost was negligible. They had to buy medicines/supplies from outside and bribe the doctor for an early slot at the operation theater.

In my teens I had an accident and few of my teeth came out, I ended up getting referred to the Govt Dental College and had my treatment here. Same story repeats - long waits, dead x-ray machines (we actually paid for the xray and then they told they cant take it and had to do it outside; there are rumors that there is a tie up between the staff and private labs and the staff will push patients to seek external services) but the treatment cost was very less. If I remember the OP cost was less than 10rs.

One more thing worth mentioning, I had all the vaccinations for my daughter at Govt health centers/ hospitals in Chennai and Trivandrum free of cost. My mother worked in Social welfare department which works very close with child care services and the doctors there were recommending govt vaccination facilities compared to private. From what I heard from her, the govt hospitals open fresh bottles on the day and discard the left over at the end of the day. It is never stored. In comparison, private clinics store these until it is over. Don't know if this makes a difference medically, but I took her advice. The process is pretty smooth, just get an OP ticket , see the doctor (no queue, you just need to tell the nurse you came for vaccination) and have the shot. Most cases the process will be over in less than an hour- you just wont be sitting in AC facilities. And if you are worried whether kids will get infected from the other patients visiting; vaccination is done in a separate area and patients wont be coming here.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Beyond this are the Govt run hospitals. You and I won't go there but millions without a choice do.

I heard that even the government-run hospitals are not what they used to be based on what I've heard. I know some folks who are squarely in the Indian (but not global) middle class - making about 5 lakhs per annum who actually prefer to go to government hospitals in Tamil Nadu for pregnancies - even though they can technically afford private hospitals. Heard that the government hospitals are even better run in neighboring Kerala. In Delhi, many of my upper-middle-class friends were pleasantly surprised to see how the local mohalla clinics are run! This is what I've heard offcourse, not witnessed, so bhpians from these respective states could correct me if I'm wrong.

Coming back to emigration, there is no absolutely no excuse for countries with GDPs-per-capita of 10-20 times that of these states (that are considered rich by Indian standards) - I'm looking at you Canada & the UK - for delaying & neglecting healthcare. Timely access to healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Delayed diagnosis can exacerbate existing conditions like cancer or lead to prolonged treatments - increasing suffering and actually be more expensive in the long run (treatment costs, lost productivity to the economy). What gets on my nerves is the fact that 'living with pain' is not even considered serious if it's not life-threatening - many of them won't even be able to work - which is a serious problem! Sorry to say but these are problems that these countries are rich enough to fix - given that similarly rich countries like France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark etc. are doing well.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Coming back to emigration, there is no absolutely no excuse for countries with GDPs-per-capita of 10-20 times that of these states (that are considered rich by Indian standards) - I'm looking at you Canada & the UK - for delaying & neglecting healthcare. Timely access to healthcare is a right, not a privilege.

It is also something that workers in UK pay for (or, at least, towards) not only in their general taxation but in specific National Insurance Contributions which is a specific part of what one sees as "tax" each month. It isn't really free.

[drmohitg]

This thread has turned into a healthcare thread. As a Doctor, I went to medical school in 2003 and worked in India till 2021. The Indian healthcare is skewed. If you have money, it looks very easy and lucrative. However, even then you always keep second-guessing the doctor and the hospital, always assuming that you are being taken in for a ride. God forbid if you don't have money, then the real struggle starts. Going by comments here, I am happy to accept that there may be pockets, specially down south where healthcare in the government set up is good. I am specially surprised to read that rich people are opting to go into Government hospitals for deliveries. If you have any data please share.

Up North things are drastically different. Most of the Hindi-speaking belt has horrible government facilities.

Each country has its own policies when it comes to healthcare. Culture has a big part in it. So it isn't really fair to compare it. Having said that, the UK and Canada seem to be struggling on this front. This could be just due to the pressures of Covid where a lot of staff retired, added pressures of immigration which is quite significant and such.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I am specially surprised to read that rich people are opting to go into Government hospitals for deliveries. If you have any data please share.

Up North things are drastically different. Most of the Hindi-speaking belt has horrible government facilities.

Culture has a big part in it. So it isn't really fair to compare it.

Your own comment above (last line) will tell you one of the important reasons for lack of good healthcare facilities for masses in North v/s South and even West India. Shall avoid any generalizations here but this 'Culture' aspect is very important in access to good healthcare for poor/masses.

If locals demand good healthcare, govt shall do the needful.

Both of my kids had their all vaccinations at Govt run (Municipal level) clinics in Mumbai and Indore. Why? Because local governments are serious about this aspect and provide the best possible treatment/care that is essential for the child. They do not oversell (they don't sell at all) and do their job in same manner for all patients regardless of their social status.

But where we struggle (not fail) is the size. Given our population size, it is extremely difficult to provide the same level of care to masses when compared to any developed nation who has had money, resources and less complexity in providing the same.

Anyways, I admire the healthcare in all developed nations as well. Each country has their own way of dong things and priorities differ.

Wish we will continue to improve upon providing accessible and affordable healthcare to more in India and not provide Insurance funded schemes only going forward.