[sweetvar26]

Hi there, still watch every game of my team, after 20 years of dominance, my team is officially the worst team in the league :(

Hail Brady, Bill and the Pats!

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Thanks all for the responses, it's good to see there's a few kindred spirits. Also for those who don't get it, I don't blame you, I felt exactly the same way about this sport for years but now oddly enough I find myself more enthused about NFl seasons than I do EPL seasons (probably because the regular football calendar is oversaturated imo - though one could make the same argument for cricket, F1, rugby, tennis, golf, you name it).

Originally Posted by tilt

I tried watching a game - it seemed to me that they actually played for two seconds and spent the next ten minutes talking and loitering about. I was completely bored out of my mind and wondered (still do) what all the hoopla is about.

I agree, I still feel this way and it's interesting you bring it up because it's an existential crisis for a lot of American sports, but mostly the NFL. The NFL engineered the game to include more stoppages once they realised that time could be utilised for TV commercials and all the revenue that comes with it. What's come back to bite them now is that in an attention economy where Gen Z "consumers" (I hate referring to fans this way but let's not kid ourselves, all sports see us at the end of the day as simple consumers of their product), have such a litany of options to choose from, they just don't have the patience to commit to 3.5-4 hrs to watch a 60 min game. And for reference, this issue isn't impacting American sports alone, you saw how existential this issue is even for the powerbrokers in regular association football (soccer) when you had some of the comments from Real Madrid supremo Florentino Perez in the wake of the disastrous European Super League fiasco. Anyway, NFL has walked itself into a corner with how they've structured the game with breaks of play so now they're having to encourage a shift back to faster paced games but at the same time they don't want to upset the apple cart in terms of the sponsors they already rely on. So it's a delicate balancing act for them to ensure the future of their sport. The expansion markets in the UK, Germany, and Mexico are thus part of one prong in their strategy to counter flagging interest in their product in younger age groups.

Originally Posted by am1m

So, don't follow the game, but appreciate it. Though the incidents of brain damage resulting from a career spent in the game are certainly very alarming.

This is absolutely the ugliest side of this sport - there's no denying how damaging it is. The Guardian's resident sports comic, David Squires produced a great piece on this:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...-mind-and-body

While the flying tackles etc look blockbuster to viewers, there's a reason these stunts are considered video game moves, they don't translate well in real life. But, the sad part is because of the cultural place American football holds in the USA and the discourse around it, you keep running into tired old culture war tropes whenever you try to make well meaning moves to mitigate the damage on the players.

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

Denver Broncos ofcourse ! !

Tough time for your lot then, and only looking like it'll be a tough hole to climb out of with the massive yoke of Russell's contract around your neck.

Originally Posted by Cruzn

I had heard of American football before that but it just seemed too complicated with way too many rules.

In terms of understanding the rules, I remember finding this video the BBC co produced really good (using a Youtube link here). It gives you all the basics to follow the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t6hM5tRlfA

While I don't have a favourite team, I do watch it for a lot of the players. Lamar Jackson, Cooper Kupp, Tyreek Hill to name a few. But none can get close to Vick who was just electrifying! I still watch his highlights on YouTube which are never boring!

Was going to say, Lamar Jackson was the name that immediately stood to mind when you said you were a fan of Vick.

And this may be controversial, but I do believe that there is no position in any sport as important as the Quarterback.

I don't think this is controversial - I genuinely struggle to think of another team sport where the fortunes of the group are so singularly reliant on one position. I'm not necessarily a fan of this aspect of American football but I do believe there's a certain irony in this fact, seeing as it neatly fits into the whole American ideal of individualism.

I am slowly getting into the strategy of the game and do get a few calls right when I watch it but yeah, the game makes a lot of sense now.

That's more than me - I couldn't tell you much about play calls. This is the bit that I think gets lost on onlookers = when it comes down to play design, it really is chess level complicated. You just wouldn't think it looking at the game would you and the low brow connotations it has.

Originally Posted by sweetvar26

Hi there, still watch every game of my team, after 20 years of dominance, my team is officially the worst team in the league :(

Can't lie, I'm absolutely here for this, watching the Patriots become a poverty franchise again. Their juggernaut was just too damn disheartening to root against, such was their success. I don't deny though they were exceptional though I'd be remiss for not stating the league protected Brady a fair bit with exceptionally soft roughing the passer calls throughout his career. I think that's partly why when Philly beat them in the Super Bowl it was so cathartic, a franchise known to bottle it beat the Galactic Empire basically. With a back up.

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by tilt

I tried watching a game - it seemed to me that they actually played for two seconds and spent the next ten minutes talking and loitering about. I was completely bored out of my mind and wondered (still do) what all the hoopla is about.

Cheers

I doubt you understand the game? It is one of the few sports that I know of where the team off the field (e.g. coaching staff) is as much part of the game during the game as they are during the time when a game is not taking place. It is the only game that I know of in which the coaches interact with their team every play of the game and call the next move (in many cases) of the game.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by Theyota

I doubt you understand the game?

No I do not, and that is the problem. I did not bother to learn because my first impression was one of utter boredom.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Theyota

I doubt you understand the game? It is one of the few sports that I know of where the team off the field (e.g. coaching staff) is as much part of the game during the game as they are during the time when a game is not taking place. It is the only game that I know of in which the coaches interact with their team every play of the game and call the next move (in many cases) of the game.

It's interesting you mention this. I think they allude to this fact in a joke in the Ted Lasso series even. It's partly why I tend to think of American football players as chess pieces because the coaches on the sideline are the ones that orchestrate all the movements. Unlike traditional football, I doubt you'd have a very good NFL game if you left the players to their own devices to figure out what to do. Instead each "play", is called by the coaches for each side. In most traditional team sports the coaches can only drill their players as best they can and then during the game they have to rely on their players to execute the plan. It's much more improvisational I feel, whereas in American football there's little room for that broadly speaking.

It's definitely an interesting aspect in my opinion.

Originally Posted by tilt

I did not bother to learn because my first impression was one of utter boredom.

I think a Huge part of why I got into it was because of the BBC programming, and the hosts they had. I would partly watch almost more to watch the trio of presenters than the sport itself, that was a by product.
Reference image: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6424948/m...r/rm1924346368

To borrow a motoring analogy, what was best about that show is it distilled that same "3 mates having fun" vibe that made the Clarkson-Hammond-May era Top Gear such infectious viewing. Having a public service broadcaster with deep chops at nursing a new sport to a TV market also helped massively. It laid the groundwork for the sports viewership in the UK beyond expats.

[PreludeSH]

Broncos beat the Chiefs first time in 17 games !
And they troll them by having their cheer leaders dance to Taylor Swift's song

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Originally Posted by PreludeSH

Broncos beat the Chiefs first time in 17 games !

You know when an absolutely dire team, in the midst of a miserable season somehow rouses themselves to comprehensively dust their divisional rivals to end some long standing losing streak? I had a sneaking suspicion going into the weekend that this was going to happen. Can't say I'm surprised it did, would be even less surprised if Broncos continue to stink the rest of the season.

Did sound like Chiefs had mitigating circumstances with Pat being unwell. Overall though I don't think there's big cause for concern - despite flying under the radar this season and being unspectacular, Chiefs still hold a very good record. I'm not one to complain. They've not had a statement win that I can think of this year, and despite having no real pass catchers other than Kelce, they're still in the leading pack, which is testament to a winning team.

And they troll them by having their cheer leaders dance to Taylor Swift's song

As they should! All good natured fun. In all honesty I was a bit paranoid when the big Swift-Kelce romance went public that it would become a sideshow that derails the Chiefs season but so far it looks like it hasn't really impacted the on field performances. If anything as Jason's teased Travis on their podcast, Travis performs better when his famous other half is in attendance.

I think the bigger stories for me are Burrows getting back to form, Jags quietly building up a head of steam and Eagles beginning to look ominous again.

[Samurai]

Kids in their teens and 20s are dying of CTE. This is just from high school and college football.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-football.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/28/h...tes/index.html

[Cruzn]

So the big day is nearly here (at least for us football fans).

Who do you guys have winning the Super Bowl?

I think the Chiefs will win it but I would really love to see my boy CMAC get his ring. He's an absolute beast and one of the hardest workers in the game. He really deserves to win. But I also think Kittle will need to step up. He needs to be Kelce-esque in this game.

[mazda4life]

Originally Posted by Cruzn

So the big day is nearly here (at least for us football fans).
Who do you guys have winning the Super Bowl?

Having a huge watch party this sunday and rooting for the 49'ers. This TS thing is out of control

[Cruzn]

Originally Posted by mazda4life

Having a huge watch party this sunday and rooting for the 49'ers. This TS thing is out of control

Tell me about it! If the Chiefs win and they let her hoist the Lombardy trophy on the field, I'm never watching another NFL game ever again!

But man has she made an impact on the league...let alone TK.

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Boy if you'd have told me at the end of the regular season that the Chiefs would win the big one, I wouldn't have bought it but here they are, on the top step yet again.

Spags and his defence have carried KC this year - they've been outstanding, both in the trenches and in the secondary. Because we all saw how useless the receiver corps were. But come play offs, like all good title winning teams Pat and his key outlets just turn it up just enough to get the job done each time. Credit also to the KC special teams unit, having a clutch kicker like Butker really makes a difference when you get to those game tying kicks at the very death.

On the Taylor Swift issue, I can understand to some degree long time fans getting peeved by the coverage she's got but the way I look at it is how I've learnt to tune out DTS and other vapid celebs who permeate F1 especially these days. At the end of the day I know that it's bringing more fans into the sport and it's undeniable that Swifts had a huge impact in terms of new demographics turning into the sport. Admittedly a lot of those new fans will probably jettison their interest once her relationship runs its course but at least some might stick with the sport and the NFL sure needs it given how in need of younger viewers they are.

Anyhow, gotta feel for Shanahan. Dude seems to have inherited Andy Reid's label of being the offensive guru who happens to be a big title nearly man. If it's any comfort, he too can shed that label eventually, though it's hard to count on having a prodigal talent like Mahomes drop into your lap. I know Kyle is getting shtick for not running the ball more with CMC but I'm surprised he didn't utilise Kittle more. Maybe he just got rattled by the looks Spags was throwing him.

KC really are a dynasty now. Hearing rumour that they're looking to restructure Pat's massive contract in the Brady vein, so that they can reinvest in other areas of the team. Even the most gifted QB ever has realised he can't carry on with such an inept receiver room for another campaign. If they can get some useful talent in the door, via the draft or through trades, just to add to the trio of Kelce, Rice and Pacheco, they'll be in business. A true WR1, maybe some additions to the offensive line, keep key players from the defence and who knows, you can't discount them running it back for a treble.

[am1m]

This is going to be a very long ball, or a 'Hail Mary pass' I guess, in the context of this thread, but here goes-

Could the US, or rather US sports investment, be laying the foundation for a post-NFL landscape?

Consider the push for sports other than the big 3 American sports (NFL, NBA, MLB) in the US this year - F1 has been steadily rising- 3 races this year in the US; Cricket T20 WC- on pitches and stadiums that weren't up to the mark- seemed like a desperate shot at hosting; and the Copa America too being held in the US, with the WC in 2026.

The NFL itself is more valuable than any other sports league on the planet, by a long way. Add to that the NBA and MLB, you'd think that would be more than enough for the US sport (and advertising) landscape. Considering that a country like India is milking the IPL alone for so long.

So why the diversification into traditionally unpopular (in the US) sports?

Could the NFL be a diminishing concern? One memorable line from the movie 'Concussion' was, "If 10% of mothers begin to see this as a dangerous sport, this is the end of football in America". Have they reached that threshold? (Heck, if I was a parent and in the US, I'd encourage my kid to take up any other sport, rather than American Football! What with all the research into the head injury dangers.) Obviously it's going to run and run profitably for decades to come, American Football and the NFL are just too weaved into US culture, but is this a long-term hedging of bets?

Of course, all this could be just simple diversification/investment into potentially growing sports, that's all.

(All of this is pure speculation on my part!)

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Originally Posted by am1m

This is going to be a very long ball, or a 'Hail Mary pass' I guess, in the context of this thread, but here goes-..
Of course, all this could be just simple diversification/investment into potentially growing sports, that's all.

I think your closing statement best summarises this issue: the reason you're seeing more Yanks invest into different sports outside their home market is because the NFL is now too damn expensive for even the wealthiest billionaires to buy into. The Waltons had to put together an ownership group to buy the Broncos and that's having Walmart money behind them. Not to mention the closed cabal nature of the NFL Owners Association and needing to be vetted by the lot of them to even get into the NFL. So if you're an ultra wealthy person looking for a sports investment, for better or for worse, they're turning their attentions to other sports.

Now has the NFL been facing crises in the past few years? Sure. There was the whole Kaepernick kneeling saga dragging them into the culture wars, not to mention the constant simmering undercurrent CTE issues. But more than that the issue they face is the fact that decades of engineering the game to include breaks so that the broadcast can squeeze in an ad break has robbed the game of momentum and dynamism and thus they've lost younger viewers. They've tried to address this in recent years through legislating for basically an offence heavy scheme. But the attention span issue of viewers isn't isolated to the NFL in their defence. If you cast your mind back to the catastrophic launch of the European Super League, you'll remember Real Madrid president Florentino Perez stating that one of the issues facing regular football is that they're just as at risk of diminishing attention spans as everyone and thus changes are required to the game to combat that and for sport to compete in the current short form media landscape. Gerard Pique often proselytises to this effect with the whacky format of his Kings Cup tournament.

The NFL has probably reached saturation point out of the US market at this point - sure last season they had elevated numbers but that was more a consequence of a new demographic being drawn into the sport: Swifties. Should her romance with Kelce end, how many of those fans stick around is up for debate, but it'll likely be a marginal gain overall in converted fans. Hence the NFL chasing overseas markets - look at them. They've long since played regular season games in London, so much so the Jaguars are the Wembley home team now. But they're having games in Mexico and last year Germany for the first time. So they do recognise that for their sport to thrive they need to grow beyond their US break basket.

Coming back to the glaring injury nature of the sport - belatedly the NFL is starting to make small efforts to combat the inherent dangers. For one they're starting to borrow from the rugby playbook and starting to teach players How to tackle. No longer will you see the kind of insane unhinged tackles that were the stuff of highlight reels for years. But that'll take time for it to filter through to junior coaching levels and for those kids to grow up and make it to the pros. It's hard enough for them to introduce any restrictions on tackling without stoking up the usual culture war BS about the game going "soft" but that's a refrain you hear in regular football too when advocates such as Alan Shearer pushed the FA to ban heading for youth level football because of the cumulative CTE risk. Professional rugby too is facing a reckoning now with one of Englands WC winners famously going on record last year stating how he can't remember things and he's barely in his 40s. But a lifetime of playing prop and getting your head mashed in by the weight of the opposing scrum is going to do that to you. I mean the fact that since going professional, union players have just ballooned in size to the point that nowadays your average back is bigger than a prop forward of yesteryear.

Essentially as sports science has pushed athletes on to become bigger, stronger and faster, we're beginning to see the effects of the body being at the limit of its normal operating window and thus more stress related injuries and whatnot. The armoured nature of the NFL makes the problem more visibly apparent, but it's not one they're grappling with alone. Question is, the rule makers will only respond when there's sufficient pushback from a majority of stakeholders, most likely the athletes themselves and the fans, but only when the money involved is threatened in the process. Take women's football, which is rightfully growing in popularity globally now. For a number of years now alarm bells have been rung about the fact that women's football faces a statistically inordinate amount of ACL injuries and that this issue is poorly understood, requiring more attention. But no one seems to want to let that get in the way of money to be made currently.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ads11

...the reason you're seeing more Yanks invest into different sports outside their home market is because the NFL is now too damn expensive for even the wealthiest billionaires to buy into....

What an awesome post! Thanks so much for taking the time to post a detailed response to what was essentially a bit of speculation on my part. I learned quite a few new things from your post, so thank you!

What is the world coming to when a Walton can't buy a sports team on their own!

What you say about injuries in other sports is true. But I think the difference between contact sports like rugby, compared to say soccer is that 1. The injuries in a non-contact sport are as a result of something going wrong (a harsh, red-card tackle in soccer), whereas, in rugby or American Football, it's as a result of repeated, allowed portions of play and training. 2. I think most people would be ok breaking something during the course of play, something that can heal or be repaired through surgery. Something that affects the brain or spine is not going to be as acceptable.

Heck, even in a sport like rock climbing (which I'm sure most people will say is far riskier than the NFL), you wear a helmet in case something goes wrong, something out of the ordinary happens (rock fall, the climber falls and hits the rock), and not because you expect to bump your head repeatedly while climbing.

Didn't know about the ACL issues in women's football, read up on it after you mentioned it. Hopefully, that's something that can be resolved with better training and conditioning at the junior levels.

Again, thanks for the post, please keep posting, you have a great overall view of sport in general and several insights.