[Mustang Sammy]

I’m sure most if not all of us have dealt with arrogant government officials at some point in our lives. Whether it is a municipal clerk or a joint secretary in South Block, many Indian bureaucrats behave like our overlords and not as public servants, wielding their power capriciously and making citizens run from pillar to post to get their work done.

Is it time to overhaul the service, including especially getting rid of colonial-era perks and powers that should have no place in a free and democratic society?

Dipali Rastogi, a serving IAS officer certainly thinks so.

What do fellow BHPians think?

[pandabear]

Like in every system there are the good bad and the ugly. The British have left their limbs long after they have gone . The good bureaucrats have realised that they are enablers rather than rulers. The ias at least has a few good apples.
But who is going to bell the cat named judiciary.
We suffer from a collective disease called inertia in our country that makes it impossible for any reform to go through. Everything is viewed through prisms of political suspicion.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by pandabear

We suffer from a collective disease called inertia in our country that makes it impossible for any reform to go through. Everything is viewed through prisms of political suspicion.

We cant throw out regulation and bureaucracy for private entities profiteering from every essential service - in the name of reform. Stable societies can be formed only by fighting for efficient bureaucracy that aligns with strategic goals for the country. We have to get our people to buy into strategies such as inclusive development.

If I can get elected by renaming a city, and reaching the required numbers claiming to be from the majority caste/group - why would I take the risk/hardship of reforms. Humans always take the path of convenience, path of least resistance. All political leaders want a lock-in on a group to move forward. As we get our masses educated, we can only hope that collectively, we are able to see beyond the easy low hanging fruit that our leaders want to address - freebies, group-ism, rename cities, etc. Instead focus on long term strategies. Lets not scape goat bureaucracy alone.

[shankar.balan]

Unfailingly brings to mind one of the most incisive and accurate as well as elegant portrayals ever. The Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister Series.

But in India it is hateful that Politics is based on casteism led votes rather than merit based performance in public service. And it is also hateful that Politicians hold such powerful sway over the bureaucracy. The once ‘Steel Frame’ of the Indian Civil Services has become a ‘Bamboo Frame’ but with some notable individual exceptions.

In the end, as ever, it is the tax paying ‘permanently crushed and sandwiched and over-governed and over-burdened’ common people that bear the brunt.

Rather than the Bureaucracy I would say the Indian Political System needs a total and visceral revamp.

I fear though, that this will never happen, because it is so rife with corrupt venom, that like the proverbial Hydra headed monster, its is near impossible to root out.

https://youtu.be/wKDdLWAdcbM

[am1m]

As I've grown older, I've begun to realize how incredibly complex a system like democracy is. And how much time did we spend learning about it? Speaking for myself, apart from a forced 'Civics' subject at school, virtually none at all.

It's little wonder that the system fails when the biggest stakeholders don't understand it, and disturbingly of late, start admiring more autocratic systems, in the guise of 'strong leaders' or 'privatization'.

That of course doesn't excuse the state of the political class and bureaucracy. It's certainly a very sorry state of affairs. But, even in my limited lifetime (just entered middle-age now), and with my very limited need to interact directly with the 'system' (belonging to that lucky section of society that can get most of my basics and more met through the private sector) I've seen some changes and accountability that I never thought I'd see.

So I remain hopeful for gradual change, while despairing at the pace of change.

[Rodie09]

My biggest grouse with the entire administrative set up in India is the lack of Autonomy to the police forces.

Who in their right minds thought that police can work without a bias and independently under the state governments? Isn't it so very obvious that the police cannot lay hands on even the most grass root level cadre of the ruling party unless there is a public uproar? I am not an expert on democracy or civil matters, but it was easy to see how this set up will rot over time and police will become a puppet rather than doing their duty without fear or bias.

Why did we not have them autonomous, just like judiciary or something under the judiciary? I know judiciary has its own flaws and challenges but I still feel to a large extent judiciary has lived up to its principles of acting neutrally and owing to that one can still hope for justice in this country.

And the change I am talking about, I know it's such a big and fundamental change that it will never happen in net 100 years too.

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by Mustang Sammy

What do fellow BHPians think?

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

I in general have a problem with the system, specially the process of recruitment. The system should be recruiting the fishes who actually have the vision to influence the life of the under privileged fishes. They have the power to directly influence the lives of others. And what the system does, recruit the fish who has mugged up 1000’s of unwanted books/unnecessary knowledge to get through the system for his/her personal ulterior gains. And if that wasn’t enough, then there is political interference (lest I would say here) for the genuine fishes to carry their work.

Seniority is only their excellence. Fishes don’t have any rat race, they just lug around in the system and are under the influence of high-power syndrome, unless they have some political hands on their head. These fishes are basically political puppets and are controlled by bigger fishes. In general, even if they want to do good, their wings are clipped. (Oh, they are fishes they can’t fly) They also realize that the more they work, the more likelihoods of them committing a mistake and more odds of throwing them out of the water. Fishes don’t have work life balance, most of the time these fishes have to live alone in secluded places which is far flung from the cities. A normal fish can only sustain such environment when they have the VISION to do something for the underprivileged fishes. Worst is when these fishes retire, then they realize all the powers are gone and the fishes who used to salute them were actually doing it to their positions. They still seek for the same respect which they used to get during their tenure, but they can’t get it.

Completely, British colonial mindset, where these fishes think that they are above others and have to rule the below fishes. These fishes get the big bungalows, red-light cars, power and uniformed guards – this is the whole chase about, say it about priorities. So, in short, we recruit Sachin Tendulkar to play Football, and this problem is not only in the administrative filed.

Rant over

Note- My first-hand opinion is based on the fishes I have understood and interacted in my extended family.

[Kosfactor]

"you reap what you sow"

We do not send our brightest and most brilliant youngsters into Politics and Administration, we send them elsewhere.

A tragedy in a country with probably the highest number of graduates in the world.

Hope we do not do this to the next generation, its up to us.

[aqualeo2040]

I would have to politely disagree here.

First of all, our IPS/IAS/IFS/IRS folks are barely present here, in this forum, to defend their stance. Even if they are, they need to be uber-careful with voicing their opinions for the fear of backlash. Uneasy lies the head...


Ms Rastogi might have her reasons, and here are mine.

If one thinks that politicians run the country, one couldn't be farther away from the truth. They formulate the high level ideas, which are then drafted into laws, covering all potential loopholes, ensuring the end delivery of the goods. This is done by the Secretaries who are generally of the IAS Cadre.
The implementation of these laws are unto the DMs and DSPs, again IAS & IPS Cadre, who then drive these through to the block level.
I'm sure none of this is new.
Now lets look at the entry path for all the Bureaucrats - UPSC. Are we saying that the talent based admission method is corrupt?

In a country of 1.5 Billion, I still feel that our level of corruption isn't as rampant as it could possibly be. And that would be because of a set of honest personnel at various levels and activities.
Imagine if all of IFS were corrupt, how would we even retain the 22% forest cover or boast about Project Tiger!
There are instances where honest officers have been shuffled around, however, compare those numbers to the total cadre size and suddenly the percentage looks miniscule.

We cannot deny that we have corruption in our country. However, uprooting the System that holds it together, without any backup systems in place, would only ensure mayhem.

P.S : Police cannot get autonomy, else who polices the Police? There were couple of instances in history where Police enjoyed a level of autonomy.. the German SS were one for sure

We talk about democracy and then we see the flagbearers of the "Democratic world' , who are more inclined on spreading 'freedom' to various parts of the world, themselves reeling with corruption at the topmost level!
No form of Governance is ideal. Democracy, Socialism etc are all utopian concepts, which fall to pieces when confronted with human avarice. Until then, we need to strengthen the foundations and raise a lesser (if possible) corrupt generation for the next tier.

[Kkumar]

One will get what he demands. Voters wants freebies and the politician giving maximum freebies wins the race. The general mentality of an average Indian is that by hook or crook I should be able to get my work done. It’s this mentality ours that politicians and bureaucrats are exploiting. The only way this could change is by education. The common man should realise his rights and should start demanding it. Even though our country churns out a large number of graduates and post graduates, one should ask the moot question as to how many of them earned it as well as the quality of the education system in our country.

[GhostGrid]

A political party may be in power for approximately five years, but the influence and control exerted by bureaucrats will last for approximately 30 years. These bureaucrats are capable of a lot, but as stated accurately in the image, “We know if we create systems where everyone has easy access to services, we shall become superfluous.”

In our country, clearing these examinations means “you're going to rule society and these people.” It has nothing to do with the public or their needs.

PS: However, there are instances where many bureaucrats have done so much for humanity that they have become an example and source of idealism, so we can't hold everyone accountable.

Love this quote by Jennifer Hillier: Good people do bad things every day, and bad people do good things every day.

[roy_libran]

I am not critical of the bureaucratic system per se, but extremely critical of an entry system that ensures selection of only a bunch of talented(?) generalists with no real specialist skills, who are then rotated between highly specialized jobs throughout their careers.
I closely know someone who spent years' in Fisheries, Industrial development, then NHRC amongst others, and shudder to imagine what contribution he might had in each!

[tilt]

The only job of the bureaucracy is to keep the bureaucracy alive - Sir Humphrey Appleby

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Unfailingly brings to mind one of the most incisive and accurate as well as elegant portrayals ever. The Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister Series.

OT: We did have a desi version starring Farooq Sheikh as the fickle minded minister and Jayant Kriplani as the bureaucrat executing his (often wishful) orders. Many situations were adapted beautifully for our country along with the unique challenges of the land. Sadly, I can’t find any episodes online now.

The credits featured sketches from RK Laxman.

[amit_snk]

Purely from academic perspective, Bureaucracy is a very important part of Democracy, that has been explained by many renowned political scholars, so the problems of bureaucracy of any country highlights the problems of Democratic system as a whole. Perfect Democracy is an utopia, Democracy is always ‘work in progress’.

Ideal system should have codified rules, regulations for the institutions to follow so that there is no confusion or discrepancies in the delivery, But having codified rules, regulations, systems, institutions can only work upto some extent in a ethnically, religiously, linguistically, physically, racially diverse country like India. So the only remedy for us is to have devolution of authority from bureaucracy to the grassroot level, this entity should have the authority to make policies and supervise execution, they should be empowered enough to make some tweaks in the rules and policies, taking into consideration there local needs.

Our constitution has put in place exactly this system known as Panchayat Raj Act, But it hasn’t delivered to its fullest potential because people at the grassroots who are given power are mostly illiterate or themselves corrupt which has resulted in goondaism in the grassroot politics, thus giving an excuse to the policy makers at the top to grasp power and decision making.

What’s needed is to educate the voters and there leaders at the grassroot about there powers and responsibilities then only can Democracy flourish in our Country