[WorkingGuru]

Not having currency of ₹2000 is lending some people to claim a holier than thou attitude in just the same way that entrepreneurs who had their money in Silicon Valley Bank used to passionately support the idea that banks shouldn't be assisted by any central banking system & skeptics should move to crypto currency etc, and when SVB went bust, those same people wanted the Govt to back their deposits.

Indian oldies who live on savings, in the recent history saw that bank deposits are not insured beyond 5 lakhs & may have conservatively thought to save some money in hard cash.

For example, as we speak, NatWest Bank in the UK is making it difficult for customers to withdraw their cash, under the guise of protection against fraud and scams.


Further, India is a country where people, often genuinely and for fairly valid & statistically backed reasoning, do not see any benefits of paying taxes that could otherwise be spent on the food, shelter, safety and education of their family and children. In that order (because parts of the country can be unsafe beyond words!). Thereby increasing the proclivity of actual tax evasion even if anyone here or anywhere disagrees with this rationale. If that money is paid off as taxes, the same will be attempted to be compensated through any means available to them from their business or surroundings.

Its also a traditional practice in India that women, including from reputed families, would secretly stash away some money saved from day to day expenses, for being used towards their safety in case of emergencies. Such cash is legitimate & non-malicious.

Fascinating to see how the internet is filled with people looking for a pat on their back, for having only a few currency notes of Rs.2000/- denomination that they exchanged. Its so very easy for politicians to divide people indifferent of the social realities. Maybe next time I'll be less surprised when people refuse to be helpful good samaritans like we see in countries like US & China.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you for your question. It is still an inconvenience for what is legitimately yours. Say you are a farmer with Rs 200,000 in Rs 2000 notes. Now deal with the local bank. It will get done after X trips and Y paperwork and Z time. But why should a citizen need to go through that to continue owning what is already his when this has zero economic value to the nation. IMHO we cannot measure this vast and super diverse land of ours on the experience of us salaried UPI/electronic banking using top 2% of the population. You & I are scarcely affected. I can't write further but would violate Team BHPs code.

I agree with your assessment and previous posts about the political intention and black money. But I still don't grasp the current issue in length. I don't know about north but in south most farmers have bank account. And they receive some subsidy each quarter in bank account. This is not anecdotal but real example in remotest part of TN. I don't have a measure about cash economy but 2L in cash is a big money, I guess.

There is no restriction to deposit any number of notes in the account in your own account. Only restriction is if you want to exchange directly without bank account. A person irrespective of his occupation, if his hands are clean can deposit in one shot all of his notes and withdraw in small notes. Is there any reason he can't do it and avoid multiple trips to bank? Only area this is issue is where banking penetration is poor.

On the inconvenience part, we are all inconvenienced by one or other decisions, ex - I am inconvenienced by the 20% TCS rule for foreign travel. There is lot of support for the small and medium businesses and agricultural people but I don't see any support for the salaried who by the way are PAN holders and get salary after TDS unlike the former.

Each will will vote based on factors affecting them. We will see the results in 2024. Apart from political side, my only hope is this pushes from printed cash to CBDC so that in future it will be easy for hoarders to do virtual exchange

[rx100]

Originally Posted by Funny

Similar to previous demonetization exercise, RBI will allow exchange of 2000 notes through special counters for specific cases like NRIs post the Sept 30 deadline. As long as you have genuine reason for not being able to exchange the notes within the given deadline, RBI will allow you to exchange the notes post deadline also.

But that is not what legal tender means right? If I am unable to use my 2000 note for any kind of payments post Sep 30, then it’s no longer legal tender. The post I quoted originally mentioned that it would remain a “legal tender” post Sep 30.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

UPI has accelerated financial inclusion over the last few years. Electronic payment is no longer used by only the top 2% of this country. So this argument doesn't hold any longer. This may have been relevant during demon-1.

Any government rule will inconvenience somebody or the other. As long as the government doesn't come out with a higher denomination note in the near future, the benefits of this step are really clear in my mind.

The inclusion you talk about is only in transactions at small tea stalls or chaat shops, them accepting upi had nothing to do with banking. The vast majority of those working, work in the unorganised sector. They're paid cash and keep their minimum balance passbooks in the idol shelf, to protect their all important voter id and aadhar card. Their savings savings are in cash, sometimes in the employer's house, under the fridge top cover or some such hiding place. The argument holds just as well today as it did back in 2016.

Tell us the benefits of the step, we're into page 8 of this discussion. Government rules and inconvenience aren't given, it's only because we tolerate it or get called names if we question the regime narrative.

[dragracer567]

Looks like exchanges & duty-free outlets here in the Gulf have stopped accepting the 2000 rs note for exchange (so much for being 'legal tender'). The INR is one of the most easily available & convertible currencies at exchanges in the Gulf (and readily accepted in a lot of duty-free outlets), even those exchanges present in remote locations in Saudi Arabia or Oman will have a stock of INR, which is not always the case for currencies of other common expatriate populations like the Pakistani Rupee, Bangladeshi Taka or even the Filipino Peso.

Moreover, it seems that despite not being legal tender in these countries (only lower denominations are legal tender there), the central banks of Bhutan and Nepal are saddled with 2,000 rs notes which they accepted from Indian tourists as a goodwill gesture and a sign of their confidence in the Indian system but now cannot be exchanged because they were never actually legal tender there. Moreover, the INR is also accepted in certain places in Bangladesh along with many (if not most) tourist places in Sri Lanka & Maldives, effectively operating as a mini-USD (if I'm not exaggerating) in some parts of South Asia. For these people holding 2,000 rupee notes, this money they hold is about as good as a piece of toilet paper. It is this confidence that has been wiped by 2 consecutive demonetizations in a span of 7 years. I can't understand why even the educated folks in our great nation cannot understand the complexity of such decisions, reducing it to apparent & intangible benefits. It is not as simplistic as 'anyone holding the money legally can go exchange it'.

[pramodkumar]

Don't have the time to read through the entire thread but here is my few cents.

Most affected will be

1. Small and medium traders who trade on cash, examples Small scrap dealers, small shop owners such as wholesale vegetable sellers and other similar vendors who do daily sale to small retailers, Small time financers who finance shopkeepers and other small establishments.
   
2. Some businesses will feel immediate cash crunch and their time will be wasted exchanging these notes instead of running their businesses, Legal tender or not people have stopped accepting it.
   
3. Bank employees who had to pay from their pocket due to fake currency menace.
   
4. Home makers who had saved some notes for the rainy day
   
5. People who have marriages and other functions at home
   
6. Medical expenses kept as cash

No black money hoarder will get affected as he can legally convert all his notes till the deadline, they can pay their vendors in advance, convert all their money into jewellery and other valuable movable assets.

Another master Joke that is going to be a move so myopic that history will remember it as a double blunder.

Pramod

[Sebring]

It will be tough to move the currency in tens of crores. I thought this Rs 2000 note was a well executed 'trap' laid by the Govt. The previous Demonetization, I agree, was a failure

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

No black money hoarder will get affected as he can legally convert all his notes till the deadline, they can pay their vendors in advance, convert all their money into jewellery and other valuable movable assets

[Clown Prince]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Don't have the time to read through the entire thread but here is my few


No black money hoarder will get affected as he can legally convert all his notes till the deadline, they can pay their vendors in advance, convert all their money into jewellery and other valuable movable assets.

Another master Joke that is going to be a move so myopic that history will remember it as a double blunder.

Pramod

That’s already been done. Jewellers exchanged Notes for gold at a nominal increase in gold rate by 10-15k. It’s mini demonetisation after all. Gold rate in the offline market after this news touched 72-75k.

[gauravdgr8]

Yesterday the home ministry took out some rather high amount of 2000 notes and said get these exchanged. As I already had to go to 2 different banks, got 20k at each exchanged and the rest deposited in our account. Bow since it is our savings from our salaries, I don't find any problem. Moreover there was no rush in both the banks and all it took was a sign with for exchange/deposit. No hassle like last demonitization.

[Ton Ami]

Somehow I have a feeling that even 500 Rs notes will be taken out of circulation in future. A cyclic pattern may be created for 500 or 1000 (if relaunched) rs notes, to keep more money in circulation than parked illegally.

Next area of govt focus may be gold..

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

For example, as we speak, NatWest Bank in the UK is making it difficult for customers to withdraw their cash, under the guise of protection against fraud and scams.
Attachment 2454831

This is an eye opener for anyone and everyone trusting banks beyond 5 lakh INR.

I think NatWest is going southward much like Credit Suisse and few US banks. Is it even legal for a bank to ask and judge the purpose of withdrawing one's own money ?

[vickzkool]

Originally Posted by Ton Ami

This is an eye opener for anyone and everyone trusting banks beyond 5 lakh INR.

The poster has been taken out of context and your comments about Natwest slightly misplaced too , I have been banking with Natwest for 22 years and there are no issues regarding the bank's financial health - additionally every deposit up to £80000 per account is FSCS protected and will be given back to the customer without any hassle, the poster specifically is an attempt to address elderly customers who have been victims of fraud where they have been forced to go to banks to withdraw cash by online fraudsters or even cowboy builders claiming to have completed non existent work and unfortunately a growing trend too in the past year or so , bank staff have been specifically trained to identify potential victims where some of my team have been involved in providing training materials as part of fraud prevention

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by vickzkool

The poster has been taken out of context , the poster specifically is an attempt to address elderly customers who have been victims of fraud where they have been forced to go to banks to withdraw cash by online fraudsters or even cowboy builders claiming to have completed non existent work and unfortunately a growing trend too in the past year or so , bank staff have been specifically trained to identify potential victims where some of my team have been involved in providing training materials as part of fraud prevention

That is an unacceptable excuse. Why should I have to provide any justification to a bank for withdrawal of my own money? Why should I answer any questions and even worse, provide supporting documentation? This is a completely unacceptable intrusion and I would move my account away from such a bank. In addition, what does "elderly" mean? Who has the right to decide that they will question my decision and judgment and at what age? Will you accept that when you are 60 or 65 or 70 that you are now considered incapable of making decisions about your own funds? This is likely illegal as well.

[avira_tk]

Those who are going on about legal tender don't seem to have stepped out recently. This is still accepted at all places except fuel pumps, restaurants and shops. The only boom I see is in the business of printing shops/ A4 paper sales, notices all say the same, "2000 rupee note not accepted", legal tender my foot.

[vickzkool]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

That is an unacceptable excuse. Why should I have to provide any justification to a bank for withdrawal of my own money? Why should I answer any questions and even worse, provide supporting documentation? This is a completely unacceptable intrusion and I would move my account away from such a bank. In addition, what does "elderly" mean? Who has the right to decide that they will question my decision and judgment and at what age? Will you accept that when you are 60 or 65 or 70 that you are now considered incapable of making decisions about your own funds? This is likely illegal as well.

i'll try to explain , probably the term elderly was misplaced from my end so please read vulnerable , to put into context in the past 20 odd years I have probably visited the bank 5 or 6 times and that too in the first few years and there have been a lot of branch closures as current generation hardly visit banks, it's mostly catered to the older generation who are not tech savvy and average life span being around 80+ there are quite a few who belong to this demographic , there is a sophisticated scam going around where vulnerable adults (most likely in their late 70's upwards ) are being targeted and forced to go in to the bank to withdraw large sums of money , the bank staff have been trained to identify tell tale signs and approach them with care , it's not a draconian measure and a few questions are asked to ascertain if they are OK and not being forced in any manner and this is done very politely , only if it becomes apparent then rules are quoted and withdrawal stopped , however in all cases it's the individual's choice and if they end up wanting their money they are provided the same , recent examples show that relatives / carers come back at a later date and claim a fraudulent transaction has taken place and banking ombudsman has ended up in favour of the customer and banks forced to return the money as it was deemed that the bank staff did not carry due diligence , hence the precautionary measures in place and it is accepted as a norm by the wider society as there is a code where in most cases fraudulent activity claims result in the money restored to the account immediately and only taken back if the investigation concludes a fraudulent claim by the customer

[montsa007]

I recently read an article wherein people are going on a shopping spree instead of visiting a bank to exchange/deposit the notes. Infact on the first day of exchange, banks weren't clear on the forms/paperwork required to felicitate the exchange, so each bank had their own form, makes sense as to why public prefers spending the money rather than exchanging it.

Some shops are happy to accept the 2000 note, whereas a union of some shops are hesitant to accept it. Not really sure why shops would hesitate, since it is still a legal tender.

Source : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/.../100461899.cms