[Bluengel180]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

OK a genuine questions.
1. Who is currently facing issues due to this Rs. 2000 note issue?
2. Who lawfully keeps large amounts of cash at home?
3. And where is one actually spending cash? My in-laws generally keep cash because Punjab still isn't very amenable to UPI, but even then it's small bills. Every large ticket item is bought through online transactions.

So, who is soooo much affected by this? Why this hullabaloo?

Had seen a lot of these privileged takes during demonetization too.

Not everyone uses bank accounts, a large part of our population still believes in cash. Especially the worker class that save money in cash as they aren't too fond of banks. The bigger the denomination the easier it is to keep it safe. If the news of the rollback does not properly reach this segment of the population they will be the ones most affected. Rich hoarders will replenish their coffers but it is the poor that has to take the brunt.

Just because you don't keep any cash it does not make it a universal truth. People trust cash and have been saving for years will now have to rush to the banks and get it converted or deposited.

Our maid lamented on losing her savings during demo because her family got to know how much she had saved up over the years and took it away from her.

3.62 lakh crore still in circulation is not not a small amount. And not all of it is "Black money". This trend of defending the government without actually showing concern for our fellow citizens is a disturbing trend.

[download2live]

This seems like a surgical strike on opposition's election funds by ruling party. An answer for opposition's strike on ruling party election funds (aka Hidenburg research).

[N.A.GTC]

Originally Posted by Bluengel180

This trend of defending the government without actually showing concern for our fellow citizens is a disturbing trend.

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The hullabaloo is not because we have large amounts of cash at home, just venting against propaganda about masterstroke, cleaning up the system, data analytics, receiving a tax notice because the satellites detected a stash buried in a bunker near my farm house using the embedded chip ...I'm unable to keep up.

Love both these takes - thanks for saying this!

Precisely sums up the frustration with this move: the hoarders are not going to face any issues while the poor loses. Families taking away saved sums, etc. are all valid points.

Personally for me, I have a huge distrust for the banking system. Especially with the events of the recent past. I want my money safe, so I keep it in cash. Plus, I have heard way too many stories of friends & family where cash becomes an immediate necessity - situations like riots etc. Thankfully I have not had to be in this situation, but way too many of my family members and friends have. You all may debate the reasons for my conclusion, but the fact is it is my truth. And there is nothing illegal about it.

So, a move which harms those who have been doing nothing illegal while letting go of those who have been doing nothing legal - obviously a bad move.

As for the gentleman who mentioned that anyone who deposited 10L+ in their bank accounts got notices. Frankly, I will say they were stupid. This was to be expected. There are so many other people who got their money converted through other, obviously illegal, methods and have not been caught. And it's easy to convert your black money this time too, with the 20k exemption. How would you even know who exchanged the money? For smaller amounts, you just need to be laborious. For larger amounts, you just need to know the bank manager. Precisely like last time.

[efgritesh]

Originally Posted by Aldo280

Section 68 has flat 60% tax rate. Including interest and penalties (which is 100 percent of Income tax) demand notices were equal if not more than the cash deposited.

So yeah 99.3% of cash may have returned but it does not mean that those who deposited large sums went scot free.

I would disagree to the point being made out here unless we have some numbers to substantiate how much increase in Section 68 collections happend in preceding years of demonitization.

Besides that Govt would have marketed it like anything, if there was something really substantial that came out of DeMo in frist place.

[Lalvaz]

Before deciding whether this is a good move or bad move, I would like to know the following:

1) What is the problem statement here?
2) Will RBI's move to ban the 2000 Rs note solve this problem ?

For those who are supporting the move, please remember that RBI itself has stated that :
1) The problem of black money wont be resolved with this move.
2) There isn't a problem of counterfeit 2000 notes that they're trying to solve.

So, I am trying to scratch my head and figure out why this move then?

I believe unnecessary tinkering with currency notes will only erode credibility in the Indian currency notes, and will cause unnecessary hardship to common people and bank staff for no commensurate benefits.

Mr.Das should grow a spine. Will help him, his organization and more importantly the country.

[chandrda]

Few months after the demonitization in 2016 I was able to get hold of 10 notes of Rs 2,000.

In January 2017, I went to JC Road to buy couple of Neolite fogs, bulbs and wiring harness. Went to a particular dealer who has a shop-cum-godown on the 1st floor. Got all I wanted, since they do only cash I pulled out my wallet to pay.

I was pulling out the 100s and suddenly the shop owner asked me if those were Rs 2000 notes in my wallets, I nodded to confirm. He asked me if I could give him all the notes of 2000 and before I could react, he offered to give me 10% commission. When I smiled and refused, he offered to give the lights free as well. I politely refused and paid for the lights.

I started my career in a CA firm and have handled 100s of such small/medium businesses. I have an idea as to how they hoard higher denomination notes and how its converted back to white.

I haven't seen a single 2000 Rupee note in years and none of my family and friends are worried about this.

Only a very small fraction of population (genuinely holding) the notes will be affected.

The one who are hoarding the notes have 100s of ways to clear it and will not make any noise. They are quietly at work as we debate

Regards

[itsbaman]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

OK a genuine questions.
1. Who is currently facing issues due to this Rs. 2000 note issue?
2. Who lawfully keeps large amounts of cash at home?
3. And where is one actually spending cash? My in-laws generally keep cash because Punjab still isn't very amenable to UPI, but even then it's small bills. Every large ticket item is bought through online transactions.

So, who is soooo much affected by this? Why this hullabaloo?

When the news came, I found only INR 500 note in my pocket. Tried hard but couldn't find a INR 2000 note. Even my father who is super reluctant of using online banking and UPI or even a debit card, and mostly use cash, didn't face any issue because of this note ban.

[chennai-indian]

All those who claim that unorganized workers keep cash at home and convert that to higher denomination notes etc. - How many Rs 2000 notes will that have? 10? 20? Those are easily changeable at any bank branch. Also, these days almost everyone has a bank account so even that argument does not fly.

I haven't seen a Rs 2000 bank note for almost 3 years now. Nor have I seen anyone using it.

[meisteramg]

100% concur with this. Another masterstroke in the making. Hardly anyone is accepting the LEGAL tender. Just wait and see the tamasha as the deadline approaches.

[Funny]

Few weeks back I had to withdraw cash from a ATM for construction payment and the ATM had dispensed about 8x2000 notes. So this is how I got hold of few 2000 notes after a long time, I wasn't using cash anyway for most of my transactions so coming across a 2000 note was rare for me. I am glad that I have handed over the cash to my contractor before this news came out else I might have had a difficult time in exchanging/transferring it. Now again I might have to withdraw cash for more payments and I hope that ATMs aren't dispensing 2000 notes anymore.

[vishnurp99]

I hope that the government doesn't come out with any higher denomination notes like 1000 or 2000 after this move. The all-pervasive digital payment infra can be used for most transactions.

I don't see any economic reason for the higher denomination notes unless the objective is tax evasion.

I am wondering who has all these 180 crore 2K notes. I know that most people have not seen a 2K note in my immediate circle in the recent past.

That leads me to believe that these notes are getting hoarded in specific areas of the country.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I am wondering who has all these 180 crore 2K notes. I know that most people have not seen a 2K note in my immediate circle in the recent past.

That leads me to believe that these notes are getting hoarded in specific areas of the country.

I was looking for this information. How much of outstanding 2000 rupee notes in value and numbers? In bank chests and in hands of public? Will you please point me to the data, if you know?

[V.Narayan]

Tamil Nadu transport PSU’s ban Rs 2000 notes from being received.

https://www.timesnownews.com/chennai...icle-100411486

This was waiting to happen where even PSUs ban the hapless Rs 2000/- note. Regardless of RBI's statements of legal tender once again a section of our currency has been rendered inoperative. Most on Team BHP are not really affected except those who are traders, small businessmen or agriculturists.

The issue is not so much about 'how many are going to be affected?' or, 'Oh I have not seen a 2000/- note in years!' or 'gotcha ya you black money rascals' or any other such extremely narrow perspectives based on our infinitesimally tiny personal experiences expressed by some. The point is also not of black money. Black wealth exists in many forms currency notes being the lowest in that pecking order. And politicians, not small traders and business folks are the largest creators and suppliers of black money demand.

The key point here is the one of credibility and trust worthiness of the word of commitment of the Govt of the 5th largest economy. Bear in mind the promise on that note, which most ignore, and most do not understand, but which has a real legal meaning – “I promise to pay the bearer….” *Twice in a short span of time the Govt has damaged the foundation of the basis of our nations currency in which we earn, transact, store wealth and so much more. What stops them from tomorrow announcing that all bonds of debt of a certain class issued by the Govt of India stand invalidated by fiat. A rupee note or any other major currency is a bearer bond of value. May not happen in all probability but Tughlaq like acts are in vogue.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Whether this decision is justified or not is one thing. But if the government keeps undermining confidence in the rupee like this, then we can kiss goodbye the dream of making the INR a global reserve currency. If we Indian citizens can’t be confident of the notes we hold, how will foreigners have any sort of confidence?

Excellent point by @dragracer567. DeMo Mk 1 and mini-DeMo Mk 2 means for another 15 to 20 years any quest for the INR to be even considered a partial minor contender in the comity of currencies can now be put to rest. Revisit again in 2040. The only exceptions will be minor Govt to Govt arrangements.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I am wondering who has all these 180 crore 2K notes. I know that most people have not seen a 2K note in my immediate circle in the recent past.
That leads me to believe that these notes are getting hoarded in specific areas of the country.

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

I was looking for this information. How much of outstanding 2000 rupee notes in value and numbers? In bank chests and in hands of public? Will you please point me to the data, if you know?

To best of my limited knowledge, the holders and users of these notes in descending order are:-

1. Politicians, political parties of all colours, associates and handlers of funds for political parties
2. Real estate folks
3. Small & medium business community
4. Micro business business community
5. Agriculturists and traders in agro commodities.

Point #1 above links to my earlier post number # 61 on this subject.

Some black money will be unearthed in categories #2, 3. The small guy in #4 and #5 will be hit doing their everyday business some of which is tax free in any case. Under #1 especially with respect to a certain party, I can bet my middle name, that they cleared out their caches of Rs 2000/- notes before this announcement. All those celebrating a new dawn of cleanliness may want to dwell on that.

It is quite likely this assessment of mine will upset the sentiments of some. Please attack the facts with data. Please try not to attack the messenger.

*pasted below for those members who may not have noticed it

[MBond007]

Yesterday I was having a conversation with an aquaintance who has deep connects in the ruling party. As per his words, this action has been taken keeping the upcoming Assembly elections in mind. The party had managed to stifle the coffers of its opponents in Gujarat elections and the result was an astounding win for the party. It tried its level best to replicate this in Karnataka elections, but failed to do so, primarily beacuse of an astute opponent.

Since the general election is nearby, the party does not want to take any chances in the upcoming Assembly elections and hence the master stroke.

[rx100]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

I was looking for this information. How much of outstanding 2000 rupee notes in value and numbers? In bank chests and in hands of public? Will you please point me to the data, if you know?

Based on an ET article, 2000 note value in circulation is around 3.62 L crore out of an overall currency valuation of 33.5L crore(10.8% of overall)

The cumulative value of Rs 2,000 banknotes in circulation has declined to Rs 3.62 lakh crore, constituting only 10.8% of notes in circulation as of March-end.

https://m.economictimes.com/markets/.../100362245.cms