[mohansrides]

It has been a long time since I began a discussion here on the forum. Ideally I would have liked to start a more cheerful discussion. But that has to wait. Now we have a more urgent situation to address.

Context - someone died. Survived by wife. Old parents and one old parent-in-law.

Further context - Both the deceased and his wife have behaved in a less than responsible fashion to themselves.

More specifically, the survivor has no clue about the financial status of her family. And the deceased hadn’t bothered to keep her abreast.

To get into details, these are the known unknowns:

The wife DOES NOT -

- know how many bank accounts they have and where they have them.

- know the netbanking details of any account anywhere.

- know if the husband had a life insurance policy.

- know if they have any investments in equities or MFs or bonds or anything.

- know the IT status of her husband. Also does not know the login details of his IT portal.

- know how to get into his laptop. Worse, the laptop belongs to his office and they are asking for it and we are worried that the employer’s IT team could get access to any personal financial files that he undoubtedly has stored there.

- know how the house and car are being paid for. The house is under a loan with some NBFC. The car was provided by the office; but given that the husband was no CXO, I am pretty sure that the car wasn’t provided as a perk. My sense is that he definitely was paying for it through a company purchase program. So mostly another loan in play for the car.

- know if the husband has any benefits through the employer for a situation like this. Maybe an insurance policy or an EPF account and such.

All in all, the survivor is in some very deep waters for which she has done no preparations.

I have provided some suggestions. To begin with, I have told her that she needs to log into the IT portal and get his 26AS and also his IT returns for all previous years. She may not know the login. But this one step is easily remedied as she has his PAN and his phone. Those should help her get in.

I think getting into his IT portal will be the starting point of her financial investigation. She will be able to see details of any insurance policy there.

But beyond this first step, I am sure that there can be many hidden details.

So the ask from this forum is this -

Please provide any and all suggestions that come to mind on how to go about getting a grip on this situation purely from a financial standpoint. In particular,

How do we go about finding all bank accounts other than the ones mentioned in 26AS?

How do we find any and all insurance policies not mentioned in 26AS?

Once we find any policies, how do we make sure that they pay up?

How do we handle the loans? Can there be clauses in the loans which exempt her from paying the dues as the primary applicant is no longer present?

How do we close his IT file and make sure that she is not held liable for any IT lapses from his side?

How do we handle the employer who wants the laptop back?

How do we access information about any death benefits for the employee from employer?

What could be other unknowns?

Are there any other steps that she can take beyond the questions mentioned in this post?

P. S.

The guy died in a horrible fashion too. He got knocked into the pathway of a truck by a motorcyclist who was riding on the wrong side of the road, and who he did not see as he was probably busy watching the traffic coming in the correct direction. Body was lying unattended for a while and therefore the family got news very late and couldn’t do anything about it. Not that they could have managed to do anything anyways. The guy was surrounded by family who are thoroughly useless. Sorry for sounding harsh. But that really is the truth.

So in the above post, I specifically chose not to mention the emotional side of things as there is no point in discussing those aspects. The wife is obviously stuck in a devastating emotional spiral from which she has to find her own way out. Absolutely nothing that anyone can do. But what we can do is to help educate her on what she needs to do at a practical level to help her get out of the financial pit that in some ways she dug herself into.


P. P. S.

While I will deeply appreciate the sincerity of anyone here who reaches out and offers to help beyond just offering suggestions; I have to state here that I am not at liberty to provide any other identifying details beyond what I have already mentioned. In fact, I am not even sure that the survivor/s will appreciate me talking about this tragedy here. But at this point, I see little choice other than to broaden the bandwidth of thought to tackle the problems ahead for this family. Certainly none of us here have complete knowledge of how and in what directions the survivor needs to take steps to secure herself financially. So instead of worrying about what someone else will think of me, I am choosing to ask the experts in this forum.

[antz.bin]

You can find out all the MF investments on the MF central portal

https://www.mfcentral.com/

Login via OTP is possible.

EPF details can be viewed on the EPFO portal. Password can be probably reset using the PAN card details.

I have no idea how life insurance policies work and how the person would figure it out. Following this thread to understand this one.

Car loan hypothecation can be checked in the digilocker copy of the RC. That should give you the name of the bank.

Home loan bank details you can get from the credit report inside Cred app. If the deceased was using it.

[Dry Ice]

My sincere condolences to the family. I hope they are able to cope with this loss.

Can they access/unlock his phone? That should hopefully provide them access to SMS/emails. These 2 will easily show the most active bank account(s). From there, try to obtain bank statements to gather details of past transactions. If unable to open netbanking, the branch might be able to help.

On the phone, contacts maybe another avenue to search for any bank/insurance/LIC agent’s number.

Employer HR will be able to provide details of PF/gratuity/group insurance/salary slips (showing deductions) etc. At a sombre moment as this, I hope they will support the family as much as possible.

As for the car, it’s RC will show if its hypothecated (on loan) to a bank, or registered to the employer/lease provider. From there, the regular deductions can be matched from the account statement obtained above to know for sure the status of the loan (ongoing/closed).

[GutsyGibbon]

We recently helped a relative who lost her husband unexpectedly. The guy wasn't even 50, wife has no clue of the financial standing. Doesnt have a credit card of her own, doesnt have bank accounts, doesnt know insurance details, not sure if she or the child is a nominee, doesnt have money for the funeral. Phone locked, PC locked, No access to tax returns, statements, etc. The only option was to raise money through friends and family for the funeral, and immediate living expenses.

With so much identity theft going on, security has tightened up. Before any financial resource is made available, the funeral had to be done, and death certificate issued. Teh death certificate itself took more than a week. To know where he maintained accounts, things like e-mail needs needed to be setup (while he was alive) with alternate e-mail after 3 months of inactivity. Without which, its hard or impossible to gain access. After finding out the financial institutions, one needs to look into who the nominee is, or if there is a will/trust. Needs lawyers, which means money. HR cant confirm anything related to nominee over the phone. Banks need death certificate, and nominee. Major financial institutions needs beneficiary to be setup. It seems like he has not done this.

This was in the US, she was willfully kept in the dark saying finances are a mans domain. She was fortunate to have some education to get a desk job to make a living, and is now awaiting the legal proceedings. Else she would be homeless, along with her child. It could all take a year or so to know if she can get any money, as she has no documents. It is infuriating to see men behave in such reckless ways (financially), and cause so much trouble to immediate family even after they are gone.

Apologies, I do not have much to offer as advise, just a rant.

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Please provide any and all suggestions that come to mind on how to go about getting a grip on this situation purely from a financial standpoint.

What could be other unknowns?

Listing whatever comes to mind :

Approach the employers HR for details of the EPF / Salary credited to which bank account / death benefits applicable.

Check out the salary account statement for transfers made to other personal accounts that are held in other banks.

If the email account of the person is accessible, check the mails for statements of savings accounts / credit cards / mutual funds / insurance premium reminders etc. In case of any investments held, there could be an email of the consolidated holdings from either NSDL / CDSL with the subject containing the words "ECAS" or "CAS".

Physically check the drawers / cupboards etc., for any bank pass books / cheque books / debit cards / FD receipts / Insurance policy certificates, which would serve as leads. Any bank account located may again reflect transactions from / to other accounts held.

For any bank account located, approach the bank branch and have them run a search for any other type of investments held under the same customer ID.

Other unknowns?

• Check for any credit cards held and hence the outstandings to be cleared.
• Also, some debit / credit cards may offer accident insurance coverage as a feature.

[Jaguar]

Any trusted insurance agent should be able to get the insurance details. They usually have access to databases and our data is anyways sold/shared among insurance companies. One agent showed me how with a few details like name and dob, etc, they can get your insurance details with another provider.

Get in touch with the company HR and cooperate with them. HR should be helpful in sorting out the company car and employer insurance-related stuff. No point fighting for the laptop. That is company property and holding on to it would only delay the settlement process.

Approach a good CA to figure out ITR-related stuff. From your explanation, not sure if the wife will be able to figure out things on her own. Hope she is educated and can manage the running around bit. It is not going to be easy.

[govigov]

If you can get hold of the consolidated account statement - CAS, it could certainly help. It has details of your monthly outflows to MFs.

CAS can go back a long time and can provide minute details like folio numbers etc. Of course, this comes with caveat that the person has access to the email address.

You can use this link to get your CAS - https://www.camsonline.com/Investors...ount-Statement

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

It has been a long time since I began a discussion here on the forum. Ideally

- someone died. Survived by wife. Old parents and one old parent-in-law.


, I am choosing to ask the experts in this forum.

First off, please accept my sincere condolences. This is tragic not only because of the demise but because of the chaos left behind.
Basis my very limited experience;
1. The first thing needed is the Death Certificate.
2. The second thing in the absence of a clear Will and Testament, is the Legal Heir Certificate. This has to be got by the local ward chaps pertaining to where the person lives. Some ‘speed money’ is inevitably needed.
Much of the necessary unravelling of details can only be begun, when these two certificates are available.

[TheHelix0202]

May the dead person rest in peace. Human lives are so volatile, incidents like this should remind us about how fragile we are, and how precious our limited moments on the planet would be. It’s upto us to ensure that we live a fulfilling life, for our ourselves and others whom we cherish as well.

[ajayc123]

Condolences.

The phone sms should have trail of majority of financials activity.
Next, the wallet (bank cards / aadhar)wallet should give additional clues
Any paper trail/ physical items like passbook, checkbook, letters at home
Income tax statement like Cas should help
Look at apps and email in the mobile for additional clues.
Safeguard all these items, as the financials can be broken into inspite of multi-factor authentication, using a combination of above.

[Bhargav7]

1. Check the old IT returns filed to see if there is any deduction claimed under section 80C for insurance premium paid. You can get an idea if the deceased had any policies.

2. Same with bank accounts. Check the past filed ITR. The list of bank accounts would most likely be mentioned there.

3. Getting PF data is very easy - Employer can provide the UAN number and rest of the withdrawal process is much easier now.

4. Searching in emails of the deceased is another way to get details of insurance policies. Can be done if the phone can be unlocked for OTPs.

5. For equities, there is a consolidated account statement which you can request from CDSL. This is PAN based and you can get the details across demat accounts.

6. Checking bank account statements can give you an idea if there are any NACH debits to understand loans and associated EMIs.

7. Investment in real estate is rather tough to get if they are not backed by loans. At this point, I have no idea how to check. Checking lockers or desks for property documents is the only way.

8. If the deceased had a wealth advisor or a CA, things will be a lot more easier. They will have most of the details.

[rjainv]

Highlighting one of points mentioned, do check credit cards to pay them off ASAP to avoid late penalties and exorbitant interest rates.


One of the thing to check once access to Income tax portal is gained would be AIS report from last year as that would have more details than 26AS.


Regarding bank accounts, most can be pulled out based on registered mobile number if you have access to the mobile number ( Dial *99# from the registered number) and debit card.

[Samurai]

When my dad passed away, we faced similar situation only regarding his stock market investments. While he ensured my mom was nominee for all the banking stuff, the stock market investments of 20+ years were a big mystery. He had a demat account and had not converted any shares into it.

We tried years to unravel them, most of the company shares (of the 47 we found) were worthless and belonged defunct companies. Finally, just 3 company shares were worth something. But it was well below the time/effort we went through, just 50K. I just wish we had thrown them all away. But for my mom it was an emotional thing that we salvage anything of value from those stocks. It was merely dad's hobby and he hadn't really sunk much into it.

[RedTerrano]

Bank accounts usually mean cards. Debit or credit. The physical wallet would be one good place to check.
Cards can also mean life insurance. Another thing worth checking.
Besides cards, bank statements (paper) or more likely, by email. A simple search for account or statement or debited in the email will surely give good matches.
Nowadays DMAT is a must for stock trading. Again check with existing banks or email.

I pray the almighty gives enough strength for the survivors to cope with this loss and they come out of the financial predicament soon.
ॐ शांति 🙏

[Capri89]

Ok here are my thoughts, based on my experience with my sister, sister-in-law, and a friend.

1. Access the email a/c first. This one single act can help to know frequently visited sites, which would include all the banks and financial sites.

2. Access the bank a/c thru forgot login and forgot password options. I assume PAN details are already available.

3. Similarly access demat a/c, if there is one. And also access any fintech sites for MFs, specifically.

4. If she has a bank a/c of her own, transfer all balances from all bank a/cs to her a/c after keeping some minimum balance.

5. Sell all shares in demat a/c @ CMP and tfr those proceeds as above. Ditto for all MFs except those under lock in.

6. From email contact details for all insurance policies will be available.

7. Regarding final settlement from company I believe the company will take a humanitarian stand and render help in all the way they can.

In general, the banks need not know about the deceased nature of the holder, at this stage. Ditto with demat and fintech a/cs.

Nominee or no nominee the banks act funny, and can be mean, in my experience with 3 different cases.

I have suggested a practical approach and don't think it violates any current law.