[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by SLK_2005

.....She was a monarch and she looted Indian resources and was responsible directly or indirectly for all the suffering of Indians until independence...

Umm, you might want to recheck your facts. Her coronation as Queen took place in 1953 and she was just 21 years old when we got independence in 1947. Hardly an age when she could have influenced the loot and pillage of a country on the verge of independence.

No comments about the rest of your post, as you are entitled to your opinion, whatever it may be.

[fhdowntheline]

While she may have performed her ceremonial duties to the best interests of her country and people, I don't think she had any significant impact on world politics at large. In comparison, someone like Margaret Thatcher had a bigger impact actually. She was not a leader who had come through the grassroots . Its just that Crown of UK is a more of a Western media darling than, say for example, the Crown of Saudi Arabia. In fact that particular office has more direct authority over its subjects and to that extent, there is more of a struggle/strife to maintain it.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

While she may have performed her ceremonial duties to the best interests of her country and people, I don't think she had any significant impact on world politics at large.

Absolutely spot on. And that's why she did well. She left the burden and responsibility of running the country to the cabinet and the elected politicians.

Another monarch might have taken a different route and either been an overbearing ruler like the one you gave example of, resulting in popular anger against the Crown. Or diluted the role to insignificance like the Dutch royalty.

She was astute and ensured that the royal family transitioned from a hated thing - anyone who remembers Di's death must surely know this - to something that most Brits are ambivalent about. And at the same time remained relevant. It's no mean feat to bring millions of tourists (including us desis who should ideally be against any sort of colonial relic) just to gawk at her home.

So, as a monarch, she did her brief exceedingly well.

As an individual in a position of unique authority and privilege, not so. Could she have done more? Of course. She could've forged special relationships with the newly independent colonies. Stopped the horrors in African colonies. Started giving independence earlier. Supported end of apartheid. Impressed her cabinets to build the commonwealth into an EU like bloc. Reparations for the colonies. Apologies for the colonial cruelties. Stopping needless wars all over the world. Widening class gulf and racism in her country. Meddling in the Middle East, South America, Africa and South Asia. Forced regime changes right from Iran to current day. Even something as fundamental as Brexit which she should've overruled. Endless list.

But she did well foremost for the monarchy. Because that's where her interests lay. She provided stability and knew how to change and mould the monarchy with time.

Now that she's gone we'll see knives sharpen and hopefully the royalty are cut to size. Their incredible wealth and land holdings while most of Britain suffers from austerity is obscene and inexcusable.

[MT_Hyderabad]

I don't believe in Kings and Queens.
I am an egalitarian and would desist from calling anyone queen or king.
When will this end? They have got a long reservation!

[bordeaux]

Originally Posted by superbad

The Queen was born into royalty & discharged her duty as such. But so would've any other individual lucky (or unlucky?) enough to be born in her place.

Give me a trillion dollar tax free inheritance and I shall be religiously doing all my duties even after I am dead. Not joking at all.

[green_ninja]

As has been rightly pointed out by some posters that this lady did not partake in the loot of our country, it is imperative to also point out that this lady did enjoy the fruits of said loot by her forefathers till the day she died. Whatever achievements that people so highly attribute to her was all possible due to the blood, sweat and souls of the millions of our compatriots who were killed by the ruthless regime of her forefathers and I have not heard a pipsqueak of an apology from this "world leader" lady nor has she made any attempts to even try and return some of the more historical treasures looted.

Her country's citizens and their mouthpieces belittle every achievement our country makes by graciously mentioning how we are squandering their "precious aid" in worthless pursuits, conveniently forgetting the USD 10 - 45 trillion (based on who estimates) their forefathers looted from this country. In my eye they are the enemy.

Now, governments mourn for the sake of international diplomacy or whatever, But when individual citizens eulogize the enemy on a public forum I will definitely judge them. So, The queen is dead! Viva la Republica!

[Balboa]

While she might have ascended the throne after India's independence, she not once apologized for the excesses of the colonial rule which helped her live the life she did.
There was that one mention of 'difficult episodes in the past and Jallianwala Bagh being a distressing example' but that too fell short of an apology and Prince Philip on the same occasion said that Dyer's son had mentioned that the numbers were exaggerated!! 500 or 2000 , does it make any difference.
Guess as Bush Sr once said that the United States will never ever apologise, same holds true for the British or in their hearts they really believed that the sun shines on India and the other former colonies due to their colonization.
Maybe she did realise the horrors of colonisation but did not speak out about as it would open a Pandora's box
If anyone has any information wherein she has spoken about it, I will gladly withdraw my comment.
Having said that I know nothing about the lady, so I will not make any personal comments on her. It will be difficult for her family and close associates and hope they find the strength.

[PRATAYA]

Originally Posted by green_ninja

As has been rightly pointed out by some posters that this lady did not partake in the loot of our country, it is imperative to also point out that this lady did enjoy the fruits of said loot by her forefathers till the day she died. Whatever achievements that people so highly attribute to her was all possible due to the blood, sweat and souls of the millions of our compatriots who were killed by the ruthless regime of her forefathers and I have not heard a pipsqueak of an apology from this "world leader" lady nor has she made any attempts to even try and return some of the more historical treasures looted.

Her country's citizens and their mouthpieces belittle every achievement our country makes by graciously mentioning how we are squandering their "precious aid" in worthless pursuits, conveniently forgetting the USD 10 - 45 trillion (based on who estimates) their forefathers looted from this country. In my eye they are the enemy.

Now, governments mourn for the sake of international diplomacy or whatever, But when individual citizens eulogize the enemy on a public forum I will definitely judge them. So, The queen is dead! Viva la Republica!

Correct to the core, the europeans and americans don't understand that the world doesn't revolve on their problems and the issues that they are facing. They want to stay in the bubble that they are world leaders. That might have been true until 1970-1980 but not anymore. The new leaders are asian and african nations who despite being mercilessly looted, raped and pillaged by their ancestors are now challenging their supposedly white superiority at every turn.
They have suffered form an acute case of diffusion of responsibility. Only a few years ago Trudeau tried to pass responsibility of carbon emissions to india and china conveniently ignoring the fact that the primary world manufacturing hubs are these countries and also to mention that the per person carbon emissions are one of the lowest in india as regards to developing countries.

Some may argue that Elizabeth came to power after indian independence,so she is not responsible for the crimes that was inflicted by britain on india. With the same basis i argue that she may have not been directly responsible but did she ever show an iota of remorse for all the wrong doings? Heck i remember she had the audacity to give a speech on world poverty while sitting in a golden thorne. Did she ever acknowledge that the methods of her predecessors were wrong, heck no because the brits, the french,the europeans that once lived under a monarch still try to glorify the past by labelling themselves as saviors.

Honestly for me, her death was a gentle riddance for me and my family members also in particular .
Long live India, down with imperialism.

[girishv]

She was just a ceremonial queen and we have nothing to do with her life or death except for knowing that she lived and passed away or just a GK question if someone asked who is the longest (ruled) monarch.

We didn't had a separate thread when her husband died and we do not need one now in my personal opinion.

Whether she partook in the looting or not is immaterial as she and her family did enjoy the loot, eg., Kohinoor.

Personally I hate the concept of even the commonwealth showing that the once slaves coming together. I wish like the St George unsignia and the name King's way, we do get rid of this commonwealth too soon.

Request the mods to take a call before this thread becomes a battleground.

[Pequod]

“Sense of service, unfaltering commitment and duty” - from the OP. Pray, to what cause?

For someone born to privilege and immeasurable wealth, the yardstick deserves to be much higher. As other forum members have already pointed out, while she may have not partaken directly in the imperial loot of erstwhile colonies, she did directly enjoy the misbegotten gains. An apology or attempts at reparation would have had real meaning therefore.

It’s understandable that the government of the day has declared mourning in a show of diplomacy and realpolitik. While there’s no need for personal comments or offense against a dead human being, in the same breath there is definitely no need for eulogy or genuflection from citizens of a former colony.

[superbad]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

This is a remembrance thread for a departed soul. If you have angst against Queen Elizabeth II please start your own thread on it. The sad part of social media is that we hide, nay cower, behind handles to protect our identity and then fling dirt without a thought of two ounces of decency about the occasion or the context. In the opening post, I'd requested we keep this thread clean. Clearly, that was asking for decent manners some find hard to muster.

Apologies sir for making comments contrary to the tone of your opening post. But I think the question here at large is - does the former Queen really deserve all the eulogies & outpouring of grief from a place where she personally had an inconsequential impact? Sure the British mourning the Queen is obvious, but what has she done to deserve our commiserations?
Of course it is your choice to mourn whosoever you want, but in the interest of keeping an open discussion, in my humble opinion such outpouring of grief is understandable for those individuals who actually contributed to your country in some way.
Yes, some aspects of the Queen do need to be respected - devotion to her duty & maintaining her dignity & composure for 70 long years despite personal setbacks. Her longetivity & the fact that a royal reigned for 70 years (ceremonially), is a remarkable feat in itself. Worth acknowledging yes, but eulogizing...? Displaying grief..?

If you think about it, the Queen has had very little impact throughout the world other than acting as a soft cultural power & just fuelling the fantasy of people. That is the whole point of the naysayers & opposers - why iconize the passing of an individual who seemed to project enormous influence but had very little tangible impact in most parts of the world?

[TROOPER]

So I have been reading up some stuff, and have found that the Monarchy and the UK in general don't apologize in the fear of being legally liable for reparations.

There is a genuine photo posted on this thread which has been reduced to a Whatsapp meme by the OP.

My only thought is, if the Queen/monarchy genuinely regretted/regret their ancestors actions, why continue using those jewels smeared with blood? Can the Monarchy not afford a new crown devoid of colonial loot?

I think such one single gesture by the Queen would have been enough to justify the eulogies flowing in.

There's no point in holding grudges over 'the loot'. What's gone is gone. I think we have enough families peppered over our country who continue to loot us, that we should be worried about. Only question is whether the Queen deserves the high praise from us, considering she had the opportunity to right some wrongs.

I don't think there's a need to call critical posters indecent. Our history is such that it does invoke high emotions. I think one can't just put a disclaimer and avoid critical opinion on such a sensitive topic. There are many such threads and I guess this is the only one to bring critics, and rightly so.

[One]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

It is about the sense of service, unfaltering commitment and duty embodied and delivered on consistently without a break for 7 decades. Talk of strength of character.

When I started my career, I had it already ingrained that I would uphold myself to the highest standards meant by the term "Professional". And that drove my actions, my thinking and found it surprisingly easy to differentiate even in an over populated stream of colleagues.

But then I realised no matter what I did, I would never reach the levels of my mother who ran the household with constraints (Operations), prepared tasty meals thrice a day (Sales & Delivery), indulged us a bit not not more (Finance) and gave us the backing we needed at the right times (HR). And today, she is still thinking about us with the single minded focus that I could only dream of.

In my best times, am just a professional for some time in a limited context. Have to bow to those full time professionals who are on point, not just day in-day-out but every hour in-hour out for decades and not days/years.

...... These are qualities in less supply in the social media world we live in today.
......
In today's world where we moan and groan on social media almost relentlessly, where we change jobs every few years, where we blame our situation on others -boss, manager, employer, Govt, et al except ourselves, where we sometimes fail to exercise perseverance and patience her life is an example for us.

To all housewives in the world, who can't complain about their team members, who can't switch companies easily, who can't complain about boss/manager/Govt, but like the true professionals that they are, teach and guide amateurs like me

Digressing a bit from the main topic (maybe it is worth another thread), but it was the first thought which came to my mind when longevity and commitment crept in.

[shancz]

This thread seems to be taking an unexpected turn.
Folks who have expressed their criticism disregarding an earnest request by the OP in the first post itself isn't done.
I would let that be for the other social media platforms who excel in this instead of TBHP, another earnest request

For someone looking to learn and improve, professionalism, courage and character is respected, even if its my enemy, for I am not the center of the universe, IMHO. Professionals and institutions do the same, like they have in this case too. The world is not black and white like some of us like to think, just a sea of greys.

Without digressing further I end my involuntary and useless post by quoting the line I find of utmost value in this entire thread, an excerpt from post #1 and in that rare case anyone had missed it.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

In today's world where we moan and groan on social media almost relentlessly, where we change jobs every few years, where we blame our situation on others -boss, manager, employer, Govt, et al except ourselves, where we sometimes fail to exercise perseverance and patience her life is an example for us.

Originally Posted by One

Digressing a bit from the main topic (maybe it is worth another thread), but it was the first thought which came to my mind when longevity and commitment crept in.

Bullseye and Ditto

[rajivr1612]

I am of the opinion that these kind of Obituary threads have no place in Team-BHP. I had raised similar opinion in the Rishi Kapoor thread, but was muzzled down.