[RedTerrano]

This topic is about death, and things needed to be done post mortem.
If this kind of subjects distress you or makes you uncomfortable in anyway, now would be a good time to hit the back button on your browser.

I lost my Baba recently and I feel the need to jot all this done as a way of catharsis.
Please do not offer any condolences or sympathies in any form. I know all of you mean well, but I have no use for them.
My loss is irreparable and irrevocable.

Here is a list of the thing the survivors need to take care of. Both legal as well as moral responsibilities.

1. Medical certification of cause of death
   The law mandates, a qualified authority needs to establish the cause of death. Usually this will be your family doctor or any doctor who has know and treated the deceased in the recent past.
   Note: In India, only Allopathy doctors are legally allowed to issue a death certificate. If you have engaged the expertise of say an Ayrvedic Vaidya, it might be a good idea to engage an Allopathy doctor as well to save yourself last minute rushing around.
   
   
2. Death Pass
   This will typically be issued by your local governing authority, i.e. Municipal Corporation, Gram panchayat etc.
   Documents required:
   1. Cause certificate (#1 above)
   2. Any one of the following:
      • Deceased person's Voter ID, or PAN card or Driving License or Adhaar Card.
      • Ditto for the person requesting the death pass. Could be either of next of kith or kin.
      • Details like place, date and time of demise.
      Besides acknowledging the information provided by you to the local governing authority (which becomes part of the Govt. record) the death pass also contains a cremation permit. Without this permit, you cannot dispose of the body. Yes. Your loved one is gone. What has remained is a body. The sooner you start thinking in these terms, the better you will cope.
   
   
3. Mortuary
   Nowadays, it's quite common for next of kin to be spread across the globe and it takes time to travel. In the meanwhile, the body starts to decompose swiftly. Retaining such a body without proper provisioning is a huge health hazard and also illegal. Always consult a qualified doctor and follow laid down procedure.
   You can choose from any of the following (more options might be available) depending your need and circumstances.
   1. Keep at home on slabs of ice.
   2. Shift to mortuary.
   3. Rent a freezer. (ref pic below for explanation)
   Since my brother was arriving from US (24 hours+) ice at home would not work for us. So we went hunting for mortuaries. Mortuaries are typically available at big Govt hospitals (e.g. Sasson in Pune) or even certain private hospitals. (e.g. Sahyadri, Poona Hospital, Sanjeevani among others). Typically private hospitals have only a few (read 2-3) cold storages and they might be occupied. Also, shockingly, Poona Hospital denied to accept my Baba's body for more than a few hours, claiming people dump (her words) the body and don't turn up till a few days later.
   So we ended up renting out a freezer, which works on electricity (15 Amp plug)
   
   
   
4. Ambulance
   Regular ambulances will not typically transport a deceased. You will need one which is a designated hearse.
   
   
5. Last rites
   As mentioned above, the death pass contains the cremation permit. You will need to present this at the crematorium, without which you cannot proceed.
   For Punekars:
   You get to specify electric or furnace and which crematorium (e.g. Kailas, Vaikuntha etc)
   However it does not mean you have to cremate. In case of my Baba, as per his wishes, we donated his body to science. Typically quite a number of hospitals will accept bodies, but apparently scams like selling of organs for huge sums of money are rampant. After consulting our doctor, we finalised on Armed Forces Medical College.
   For those curious or interested, this link might be useful
   https://afmc.nic.in/Departments/Anatomy/homepage.html
   Everyone we interacted with at AFMC, was extremely professional and very very helpful.
   
   
6. Paperwork
   The very important paper you will required is the Govt issued death certificate. This is given by your local governing body and essentially contains the relevant details summed up. This is the definitive document conforming a person's demise. You will need it for bank accounts, pensions, wills etc. As advised to us by the lady in the Death Pass office (#2 above), I went to the closest corporation ward office to obtain it, after one month (It takes time for the Govt to collect all records, cross reference/tally them and update their master record).

Do's, don'ts and coping up.
Death of a loved one is always a traumatic experience. Based on my experience I also wish to share the following. Take whatever part you think fit and ignore everything else.

It will sound ghoulish, but I had been preparing for the inevitable day, even when Baba is alive. Believe me, when it actually happens, you will be in no frame of mind to think and take logical decisions. So be prepared beforehand.

Think of the actual logistics. Figure out a timeline. Talk to those who will require time to arrive. Work out the realistic time frame.
Based on all this, gather information and make informed decisions.
Have your list of action items ready.

When the day arrives (remember it can be night also), after you have slightly recovered from initial shock and grief, swing into action. Keep telling yourself constantly, this is one task you simply have to do properly. Deny yourself time to grieve. You have to be strong for others who might lean on you for emotional support (children, surviving elderly parents/relatives, ladies) It helps tremendously in keeping yourself focused. Keep telling yourself now is not the time to break down. You have the rest of your life for it.

Ensure you keep yourself hydrated as well as nourished. Ensure the same for others in your family. Pay special attention to everyone with medical conditions such as diabetes, hypertension etc. Emotional trauma often triggers off medical ailments.

There is absolutely no need to inform everyone about everything (especially elderly people). You are not lying, you are just helping dampen the shock.

Inform relevant family members, friends, relatives etc so they can come to pay their last respects. You will be pleasantly surprised, how many offer to help in the logistics.

Once the last rites are done and you return home, have a bath. Not only is it advised as per the scriptures, but you will also feel better.
Now you can start grieving.

Religious rites are one excellent way to cope. A good Guruji will explain how death is an integral part of life. He will also explain, how it is natural to grieve, but eventually you must come back to normal.

Talking also helps a lot. But make sure you remember only the good times. Try to smile. Try to laugh.

Music always helps. Listen to it. Lots of it.

Do retain everyday items like spectacles or walking sticks. Besides this, a framed photo is absolutely recommended. Talk to these items as if loved one is still there. No you are not crazy and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Everyone has an ego. Ego often leads to strained relationships which can drag on for decades. If possible use this sad occasion to mend relationships.

Finally, don't forget to express your love and affection towards your loved ones on a regular basis.
When they are alive.

[R_R]

Preparation ahead of time is absolutely important for these defining moments in our lives, especially when you are caring for elderly parents or other family members. My father-in-law passed recently, and yes, it wasn't easy, though we thought we were prepared for it. Additionally, many of us live far from our native places, and can't even depend on traditional sources of support in times like these.

In our case, we did have friends and family (those who could) rushing to help, but it is also important to remember that there will be very little time to get things done and help from friends and family may not arrive soon enough. In the meantime, everything from hospital arrangements to funeral services have to be planned and accomplished. We didn't even know where the crematorium was, which was a better or cleaner one, which had electric cremation etc.

We used a service, Last Journey, who did a lot for us. We found them very expensive, but we didn't mind partly because they did everything very well, and also because we decided we could afford it. If you use a service like this, please be careful to make sure you get a final estimate upfront because you can also tailor it to some extent to reduce cost. And there might be other services too, or you could have family and friends who know what is to be done, which we unfortunately did not immediately, which goes back to my point about the time pressure you will be under when something like this happens.

As RedTerrano wrote, this is a traumatic time, and writing about it, especially preparations, sounds ghoulish, but it is something many of us must face up to. A final point that I should stress is that, in addition to taking care of the physical health of the survivors, note that some may need grief counselling or other kinds of psychological or even psychiatric help. We lead very atomised lives, which makes this even more necessary, and there is no shame in admitting the need for help.

[Rocky_Balboa]

Some more points from a personal experience:
(a) Have an obituary advertised in the local print media, with relevant date/time for rites/ rituals
(b) Get to a consensus amongst siblings on responsibilities including who will perform the last rites and other arrangements including money-handling
(c) There are always folks who will irk and cause last-minute troubles, identify those before-hand and have a clear plan to handle them
(d) Inform neighbours (and/ or local police) about movement of vehicles/ funeral procession
(e) Arrange for water/ coffee etc for folks visiting to pay their last respects
(f) There will be a thousand opinions from near and dear, about the funeral process which could disrupt the plans - have an open thought-process but be firm on the process You establish.

Love to everyone who go through this harrowing experience, it is extremely demanding emotionally and physically; please have a close-group You trust/ share emotions with.

[manikjeet]

I recently lost my Granddad. Its still recent for but it was 11 Feb 2022.

He had Prostate Cancer. I had actually 4 Years to prepare for the day. In my mind I had actually started to prepare for the day. I didn't cry but I wanted to, I had my family to support. I needed to be focused. I need to aligned everything. I had the Refrigerated Funeral van number already saved in my mobile this really came in handy as many of the relatives took 4-5 hours to reach.

I visited the cremation ground and arranged for everything needed. One should keep a good amount of cash if one can prepare for this day. . Everyone at the Funeral place is battled harden and take you very casually like nothing has happened.Be prepared for that its a routine for them.

RedTerrano is 100% correct. We should love and cherish each day we have with our loved ones. The doctor had given us 6 months at the most but somehow Granddad survived 4 long year in so much pain.

The last days were the most pain full for us and him. He was a very self reliant person and being on bed and see everyone do his small chores pained him more.

What I learnt is that one family member who is emotionally strong should remain in control on the family and situation after passing away of a loved one. He/She has to inform all the family and friend. He/She has to arrange all the rituals and materials required.

I have retained a lot of my Granddad belongings against the wishes of my family.As I write I am wearing his favourite shirt. And yes this helps me in coping up with my loss. I still talk to his pictures and even till now I don't leave the house without telling him where I am going and when I will be back.

I still do talk to him like I always do. Not a single day goes by when I don't think of him.

As for the legal procedure. He died of the natural causes and a simple visit to the Death Certificate Dept. sorted out that part.

But yes getting the properties and bank account transferred to my Grandmoms name was another task. Each Bank had its own set of rules and Tehsil/ Revenue Dept. had its own but it was easier that what I was expecting.

Lastly it brings out the true picture of the family members as well and that was in itself even a very big eye opener for me. The people who you thought were family and will show their true face. Some relatives will have their own set of problems bigger that passing away of a elder.

But in the end one should maintain a balance mind and stay calm and focused.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

Note: In India, only Allopathy doctors are legally allowed to issue a death certificate. If you have engaged the expertise of say an Ayurvedic Vaidya, it might be a good idea to engage an Allopathy doctor as well to save yourself last minute rushing around

No, Ayurved Vaidyas can. Our Vaidya does, and has issued the Death Certificate. I know of two instances in the extended family / neighbours.

However it does not mean you have to cremate. In case of my Baba, as per his wishes, we donated his body to science.

Does this/a form have to be filled by the person intending to donate organs / body, or can heirs decide post death (if the form hasn't been filled)?

Reason I ask is. My parents, and I, have long wished to donate their organs / body to science, and over the last two decades, filled up numerous forms. Some for eye donation, some for the body. When the time comes, I don't want a Dr / hospital to say, "this is not the form, they should have filled that form". The lack of a formal process / single form or entity responsible to collect this info shouldn't be a hindrance.

EDIT: Here's a related thread that might be helpful.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...les-owner.html (Transfer of registration after death of vehicle's owner?)

[samaspire]

One major point that I messed up with after my father passed away. Do not close bank account/s until you are sure it's not needed anymore. I closed my dad's SB account after 6 months, but then realised that the account was needed for income tax refunds.

[RedTerrano]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

No, Ayurved Vaidyas can. Our Vaidya does, and has issued the Death Certificate. I know of two instances in the extended family / neighbours.

This is strange. When we consulted our Vaidya (Baba was getting medication from both Allopathy as well as Ayurved), he informed us about it. He did mention a lengthy procedure (on his end) which sounded like a lot of red tape and it is quite possible I misunderstood. Whatever the reason, in my case, our Vaidya would certainly not be in a position to issue the certificate.

Does this/a form have to be filled by the person intending to donate organs, or can heirs decide post death (if the form hasn't been filled)?

There is a subtle but important difference. In Baba's case, we donated the whole body. Protocol might be different for organs. Actually it had all started with eye donation. Decades back someone told Baba and both my parents had filled up the form. Later when he came to know of body donation, he had expressed his wish to donate his body.

In case of AFMC, we did not need to fill up any forms. We contacted them on the phone and they confirmed we could bring in Baba with the required documents.

For those interested in organ donation, it is important to note, there is a time window. e.g. For eye donation, it is 4 hours (docs on the forum can clarify/correct). You will need a doctors death certificate for it. As for the form and paperwork, its a good idea to make enquiries before hand and be prepared.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

This is strange. When we consulted our Vaidya (Baba was getting medication from both Allopathy as well as Ayurved), he informed us about it.
...
Whatever the reason, in my case, our Vaidya would certainly not be in a position to issue the certificate.

In India, not only an allopath, but also homeopathic doctors and dental practitioners can issue a medical certificate of cause of death (MCCD), if a patient dies while under their care. Ayurvedic doctors are allowed to issue MCCD in some States, but not in others.

[anjan_c2007]

A lovely and meaningful thread. Death is inevitable and every mortal has to go when his or her time comes. This includes all our very near and dear ones. Another point I would like to assert is that the elderly or even the young who have savings in banks, financial non banking institutions, FD's, PPF, EPF, GPF, mutual funds, shares, debentures or any other savings instruments need always have a nominee and those who already have need to check and if need be update their nominee in the respective records of either such savings or deposits or MF's or shares or debentures (records of the latter three in your paperless depository account). The NSDL also has records of your shares, debentures, mutual fund portfolio and bonds if any. Also, it's always preferable to have a joint account with the first name being yours and the second that of siblings/parents (in case single), spouse, children or some other person who are very trustworthy to you. A joint account reduces hassles post death of the first/ second account holder.

I fully agree with samaspire when he says that bank accounts must not be closed immediately. Check all deposits and other finance instruments and records of the deceased and ensure that no amount would be credited therein after either by any instrument or by ECS, NEFT, RTGS from any source/s.

The Central government pension account office has made it compulsory as per Pension Rules 1972 to have the spouse's or dependent's joint name in such pension account with signature, aadhar and other identity details and photograph of the joint account holder. In a lighter vein, post death of the central government servant who could have married two, three or four times, all such wives have staked their claims for the family (widow) pension benefit. Court matters take years and one or more decades to arrive at a resolution. Hence, such a decision of getting the pensioner authenticating during his lifetime, which wife is the deserving one, has made things more explicit.

I would like to quote the lyrics of a touching British pop song "The living years" from 1988 by Mike (Rutherford) and the Mechanics. Mike was not in good terms with his Dad during his later life. It happens post adolescence in some cases where sons have ego clashes with their respective fathers. And Mike's repenting for his attitude during such a past spell of soured father-son relationship made him recount his role and write and compose this song with a touching lyrics. I am not posting the video link as this thread must go on with a sombre note. The song is available for all interested on you tube if searched as "The Living Years by Mike and the Mechanics."

Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door
I know that I'm a prisoner
To all my Father held so dear
I know that I'm a hostage
To all his hopes and fears
I just wish I could have told him in the living years
Oh, crumpled bits of paper
Filled with imperfect thought
Stilted conversations
I'm afraid that's all we've got
You say you just don't see it
He says it's perfect sense
You just can't get agreement
In this present tense
We all talk a different language
Talking in defence
Say it loud (say it loud), say it clear (oh say it clear)
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late (it's too late) when we die (oh when we die)
To admit we don't see eye to eye
So we open up a quarrel
Between the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future
It's the bitterness that lasts
So don't yield to the fortunes
You sometimes see as fate
It may have a new perspective
On a different day
And if you don't give up, and don't give in
You may just be okay
So say it loud, say it clear (oh say it clear)
You can listen as well as you hear
Because it's too late, it's too late (it's too late)
When we die (oh, when we die)
To admit we don't see eye to eye
I wasn't there that morning
When my Father passed away
I didn't get to tell him
All the things I had to say
I think I caught his spirit
Later that same year
I'm sure I heard his echo
In my baby's new born tears
I just wish I could have told him in the living years
Say it loud, say it clear (oh say it clear)
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late (it's too late) when we die (it's too late when we die)
To admit we don't see eye to eye
So say it, say it, say it loud (say it loud)
Say it clear (come on say it clear)
Say it loud
(Don't give up, don't give in and don't look away 'til it's too late)
Say it clear
Say it loud (say it loud, say it loud)

[steadfast]

Well I just want to add my experience here. People will find it wierd and can chose to ignore it but I just want to document it in case someone reads and if something similar happens can try to make last days of a person better.

Last year, my resp. Mamaji departed to a better place. Last 20 days of his life he was at my home and staying with me. Almost 10 days before he departed, while awake he started seeing his parents around [my late Nanaji and late Naniji] and just causally used to tell all of us. I had read online about such things happening but never bothered to pay heed or even believe them.

But 10 days after he first told he left. Post all rituals I read about this topic extensively and found many such cases online.

We humans are always hopeful and can never imagine the worst for our loved ones but this may be a sign of worst coming.

Mods please delete if this is unsuitable for our forum.

[Huzi]

Most of us or our family members belong to a religious community, I belong to the Bohra-Muslim community. It’s a small sub-sect of Shia Muslims. Within the community we have a committee, who provides last rights services, be it for poor / rich. The committee is run by a few volunteers. They take care of all government formalities related to deceased, hospital discharge, burial, religious last rites, transportation of the deceased. These honorary services are provided free of cost. My Point being, if you are part of such community be aware of the different committees, possibly participate in community activities, life becomes that much easier.

Grief shared, is better than grieving alone.

I had lost my father when I was 20, just the day before, I was due to fly, to pursue my higher education in Australia. Had to back out, as suddenly family commitments were transferred to me. In short, prepare your mind for all kind of challenges life throws at you.

Meanwhile, financially always keep things in the clear related to joint property, legal heirs, will, nominees for bank accounts, login I’d & passwords of banks, lockers & signatories therein, insurance contact numbers, etc.

And it really helps to keep good relationships with family members like uncles, aunts, grand parents. Nothing like having a blood relative by your side, at a time of grief.

[Vijay T]

My two cents on the topic :
Since inheritance is also discussed somewhat in earlier posts, i found it appropriate to mention that some private companies do hire legal or inheritance support to people who are retiring.(mine did :Mahindra )
They make all the arrangement of paperwork, contacting LIC, Banks, mutual fund offices on your behalf & help one prepare for nominations, will etc.
This makes the person feeling relieved & need not worry about what happens after his death AND the next of kin has not to go thru any hassles post death of dear one.

[aaggoswami]

Another thing I would like to add is surrender PAN.

Now to surrender PAN, file the ITR of the deceased, for example if a person leaves for heavenly abode in the month of December, ITR should be filed from April to December and then surrender PAN card. Usually not many are aware of this. Realized that after I lost mom and dad. However, before surrendering PAN ensure that there are no bank accounts and/or investments. Close all financials that are in the name of deceased as soon as possible. At the moment, there is no method to surrender Adhar Card.

[raksrules]

I see people saying don't close bank account and surrender PAN after checking it is no longer needed and so on.

I would suggest one more thing. Don't let the phone number of your loved one die for now. Today, most stuff is linked with our phone number. I maintain a google sheets document of all my investments and bank accounts and everything financial including details of term insurance and I keep my wife appraised about it as I have seen within my relatives that the male member dies and wife etc have no clue what bank accounts or investments are there. I want to avoid this.

I have even created a tab in the google sheets which says "In case of my Death" where I have listed down things my wife needs to do and things she has to ensure when I die. I know it is morbid but I feel it is necessary for me to do this.

[hkanitkar]

This is a very helpful thread to start - especially when there are so many unexpected deaths due to Covid.
IMO, we Indians have a different way of looking at death as something scary. Thats why kids are never told upfront when their Grandparents pass away. They are always told indirectly.
I try to look at it as an end of a chapter in a book. No matter how much you like the chapter, the book has to end somewhere and you have to let it go. One should let the emotions out freely and get closure. The moment you try to keep them from coming out, it will start eating away at the positives that can be taken, even from the death of the loved one.

I recently lost my Maternal Uncle and my Mother in Law.
In case of Mother-in-law's sad demise, COVID did play a big role and no-one was prepared mentally and practically. But since she used to help a lot of friends & elderly family members with their minor investments ( Postal Bonds/ Mutual funds etc. ), she knew some of the documentation that is required when a loved one passes away and had most of her own documents prepared. Transferring her assets to my Father-in-Law/ Brother-in-Law's as well as my wife's name was a simpler task.

In case of my Maternal uncle, we had time to prepare ourselves mentally, and we actually thought that his death relieved him of the all the health troubles in future. With his assets/ investments, the issue is so complex that we are actually unable to touch any of the assets at the moment due to legal marital complications that he had created !

My first and foremost suggestion to anyone reading this, is : if you are above the age of 55, make a will and register it ! IMO, It is the MOST important document that the Indian judiciary demands in case of any disputes, thus Registering the Will is very very crucial !! We have spent a lot of time, money and energy due to absence of a will when my Paternal Uncle expired in 2008. It took my cousin brother almost 8 years to get a succession certificate, which transferred all the assets to his name ( And mind you, we have absolute clarity regd. rights within our family, and have documented & registered the 'Leaving of Rights' ( Release Deed ) in the required formats ).

My second suggestion is to have your parents write down any of their wishes. It may be :
1. Organ / Body Donation ( This, sometimes is a confusing situation if their wish is not written down or clearly told to anyone )
2. Extent of the Aggressive treatment ( Depending on chances of survival and condition post survival )
3. Celebration(??) of their death ( I know this sounds ridiculous, but one of my Aunts has clearly told her son that she wants him to actually have a party on the day she departs, because she doesn't want her death to be remembered as a sad event ! )

I agree with a lot of other suggestions in the thread, so wont repeat them.