[navrddy]

What is the price of defending some thing as relevant as nation boundaries , when nations people are suffering and innocent lives are being lost. Sometimes it is worth losing for a greater good, not everything can be won. We are nobody to judge somebody's actions, history will judge them fair and square. We have to understand, sometimes we may be correct, but situations are not appropriate to benefit us, taking Russia down is close to impossible, I guess even America can't.
For best interests of Ukraine people and world, current situation warrants Ukraine backs down. What cannot be won by war, have to be won by love. Objective should be saving and protecting innocent lives. Every life matters no matter how small...

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by navrddy

For best interests of Ukraine people and world, current situation warrants Ukraine backs down.

Their leadership has that terrible decision to take. How many lives to loose?

Currently, they seem to have the support of the people. It seems they want to fight for their country.

[Poitive]

Note: Formatting added at various parts of quotes in this post.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

...On another note, I wanted to share an interesting play that China is doing. They are suggested that the Indian situation is normalizing. ...
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254670.shtml
...

From the above article:

The latest round of corps commander level talks came despite US agitation, which Chinese analysts said contrarily strengthened the determination of China and India to consolidate achievements and manage differences.

For some US politicians who see China as a strategic rival, China-India discord would only bring benefits to Washington: it drains resources from China's military and woos India in terms of the defense and security, analysts said.

some Indian analysts have already been sounding unusual voices against the US' scheme, saying that India's policies should promote a greater awareness that China and India should put the overall interests and fundamental interests first, instead of being agitated by the US.

Another article in a similar vein: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254170.shtml

It seems Team-Bhp is being read widely.
Been written on T-bhp before.

Originally Posted by Poitive

...

• China going after us hammer and tongs would again push India towards the US. If pushed enough, we might have to accept US bases in India. Bad for China.
• US pushes us beyond a point, we end up leaning towards the Russia-China grouping, even if it means some compromises.
• In an ideal world, we would not want to have trouble in our immediate neighbourhood and be on good terms with China, whether or not the border is defined (as of now it is in China's interest to keep the border unclear), however peace between India and China is not in the US interest, as it combines two major emerging powers (at different stages though), which in times to come would be a counterweight to the US; more so when combined with Russia.

As before, gaming of scenarios is done for long periods (a 100+ years) and a peaceful border of India and China, with them spending less on defence and more on economic growth and being able to combine forces to take on others is not in the interest of current centres of global power, and rarely talked about on media - mainstream or social.

Originally Posted by Poitive

Further, India feeling significantly threatened by China works in the interest of the US - potential (not likely) US bases in the region. Let that point not be missed (refer to 4 in the quote).

China realizing this, and it's fallout eventually working against China's interest, reduces the practical viability of China going hammer and tongs after us (even though the US might be happy if it did - to break any chances of a future Russia-China-India axis). So the very idea of their action potential bases in India, reduces the chances of them going hammer and tongs after India.

Please do not take the above too literally. Just could not help point this out.

After the bhai-bhai narrative followed by 1962, it isn't easy to trust China; or almost any country for that matter.

At the moment, Russia needs China and also India. This just might shift the balance a small bit towards Russia-China-India axis strengthening, while keeping the US a bit at a distance. What the Chinese might need from us is to stay neutral and not side with the US in case of a Taiwan conflict. The chances of all this happening remain very very slim however. Just in case it were to happen, it would be a very significant impact of the Russia-Ukraine war.
.

[CarNerd]

I don't understand why Zelenskyy is daily urging Ukrainians to fight and asking the West to close the airspace. Does he not see how many people are getting killed because of his inability to come to a decision? If he wants to resist Russia and drive them out no matter what, Why is he negotiating with them? He should stop all meetings and fight to death as he said. Is Surrender worse than complete destruction of Ukraine?

The Russians have 3 demands: No NATO, Recognise Crimea as Russian Territory, Recognise Donetsk and Luhansk Republics. Having lost Crimea in 2014, If Zelenskyy had any common sense, he should have negotiated with the Russians when he became President in 2019 or even a year ago when the Russians were slowly increasing their presence along the border. That way he could have prevented the invasion and separation of DPR & LPR.

If he thought that US would come to defend Ukraine after getting kicked out by the Taliban in 2021, He should've continued doing Comedy.

[iTNerd]

Originally Posted by navrddy

What is the price of defending some thing as relevant as nation boundaries , when nations people are suffering and innocent lives are being lost. Sometimes it is worth losing for a greater good, not everything can be won. We are nobody to judge somebody's actions, history will judge them fair and square. We have to understand, sometimes we may be correct, but situations are not appropriate to benefit us, taking Russia down is close to impossible, I guess even America can't.
For best interests of Ukraine people and world, current situation warrants Ukraine backs down.

Easy to give an opinion when it does not involve us! Would you say the same if China were to be Russia and Ukraine to be India (putting aside the Nuclear weapons thing aside)?

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by iTNerd

Easy to give an opinion when it does not involve us! Would you say the same if China were to be Russia and Ukraine to be India (putting aside the Nuclear weapons thing aside)?

You ought to read the Global Fire Power report before making such illogical comparisons.

A more apt comparison in this context would be if "India were to be Russia" and "Bangladesh were to be Ukraine".

[iTNerd]

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

You ought to read the Global Fire Power report before making such illogical comparisons.

A more apt comparison in this context would be if "India were to be Russia" and "Bangladesh were to be Ukraine".

I am referring to the context of defending one's nation when invaded by another. Does not matter if his gun is bigger than mine.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by iTNerd

Easy to give an opinion when it does not involve us! Would you say the same if China were to be Russia and Ukraine to be India (putting aside the Nuclear weapons thing aside)?

If that hypothetical case ever arises, same opinion would be given by other nations to us Mostly people want to stop war and have the peace prevail but if it comes to their own land then their opinion changes.

It is fairly common for mostly britishers to funnily tell us sometimes that why dont we give up our lands to Pakistan and make peace, afterall it is not as big a land.

[Samurai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Kttb1WaJE

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by iTNerd

I am referring to the context of defending one's nation when invaded by another. Does not matter if his gun is bigger than mine.

Oh, it absolutely matters. This would never have happened if Ukraine had the ability to hit back effectively at targets of importance in Russia.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

I don't understand why Zelenskyy is daily urging Ukrainians to fight and asking the West to close the airspace. Does he not see how many people are getting killed because of his inability to come to a decision?

What inability? I am sure that he makes the decision daily! To fight! You may consider it the wrong decision, but it is no indecision. Either way, it is one of the most difficult decisions anyone has to take.

It appears that, largely, he has the support of his fellow people. And, in spirit, at least, much of the world. He probably doesn't mind that a few T-BHP seers disagree.

The Russians have 3 demands: No NATO, Recognise Crimea as Russian Territory, Recognise Donetsk and Luhansk Republics.

I'm sure he is very much more aware of the subtleties, implications and the small print. It is never going to be that simple. Putin is rebuilding his dream: Make Soviet Russia Great Again.

And it does seem to be one man's dream. With a small circle. Russia itself may say enough is enough. But no breath holding waiting for that to happen. We shall have to put up with Putin's "indecision"

[SnS_12]

Russia draft law raises doubt over fate of $10 bln of jets

A new legislation now allows foreign planes leased by Russian airlines to be registered as airline property and can now be given air worthiness certificates by Russian authorities. So by seizing and re registering these planes as Russian aircrafts in case international airspace opens up in the future and these planes flyout of Russia they cannot be seized by a foreign country and have to be allowed to fly back.

But how will they get backup to maintain these aircrafts from the manufacturers if they do this and also aircraft leasers won't give Russian airlines planes in the future.

Long term impact of these aggressive tactics needs to be seen but in the short term these aircraft leasing companies are looking at $ billions in immediate losses.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transa...ts-2022-03-10/

[turbo_delight]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

If he thought that US would come to defend Ukraine after getting kicked out by the Taliban in 2021, He should've continued doing Comedy.

100% agreed. This comedian is getting his people killed by using Marshall law. No-one is allowed to leave between the age of 16-60 years.

Its not by choice that people are fighting. It's forced and independent media is showing that the are heroes.

Imagine a 14-15 year old kid holding a gun in his hand and media propagating heroism. He'll die.

The president should understand holding is AK is only one small part. Anybody holding AK does not make them military ready, there are 100 more things to learn when you fight a war. Any common sense person knows that. But the president has profound absence of anything close to that.

The whole world is supporting them, only in words.
US said they are welcomed with open arms. Guess what, Kamla Harris was giggling at the question when asked.

UK is at another level. The prime minister said that they will let 2 lakh people take refugee in their country. Guess what, 200 people arrived and they were also not allowed to enter. Reason : they did not had documentation.
Their prince said it broke his heart to see people in pain. Probably he has not ready history. He never heard of colonialism.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...-kids-26228499

I dont think the world is taking Ukraninans for a ride. It's his own president.

[NiInJa]

I've gone through almost all pages and video links shared by some senior members here, all I can infer is that it helps a nation to have leader -and the team- with strong political acumen. Zelensky is a brave man at this time, but he is definitely not astute when it comes to handling Russia or understanding global politics. It takes years of continuous studying and talking to your neighbours to ensure such things don't happen, and it is a never ending process, whoever might be in power, irrespective of the ideologies. I am proud and relieved that we Indians are blessed by sharp leaders and people around them who have successfully managed to keep the North-Eastern and North-Western situation under control so far for all these years.

Russia's apprehensions have been around for a long time, her military build-up, economics (reducing USD dependency, increasing gold reserves) were known to the whole world long ago, Zelensky already knows about regional issues (West Ukraine vs. East Ukraine having majority of pro-Russians), heck, annexation of Crimea happened not long ago. Despite all this, knowing that the people of HIS country will suffer, why was his government not able to talk to Putin and ease tensions or at least buy some more time? All these years in power -and many more living in the country- and he comes to know NOW that NATO won't help him, the countries around him are not really keen on joining Ukraine's fight, the US wont allow making Ukraine a 'no-fly' zone, or he will have to beg to other countries for getting airplanes/missiles/weapons? I mean, is this a matter of complacency, too much trust on others, simple ignorance or utter foolishness? My personal opinion is: in this day and age, with all the knowledge and resources at your disposal, you still arrive at a point where you are ordering educated common men to take up weapons to fight your enemy, then you really need to take a long and hard look at your leadership skills.

Western media might drive the narrative helping Ukraine paint an image that they are able to stop Russia successfully, but the fact is Ukrainian people are dying for real and this narrative wont make them alive again. Hope they talk at the earliest and stop this madness.

[CarNerd]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

What inability? I am sure that he makes the decision daily! To fight! You may consider it the wrong decision, but it is no indecision. Either way, it is one of the most difficult decisions anyone has to take.

It appears that, largely, he has the support of his fellow people. And, in spirit, at least, much of the world. He probably doesn't mind that a few T-BHP seers disagree.

Whatever he is doing is not going well for his citizens. He has to decide something fast before more people die. He didn't mind the Russian threats about NATO or the warnings given by the West about Russia even after losing Crimea and now he is not minding the daily destruction of his country. He doesn't even mind West's refusal to fight Russia. He probably doesn't mind anything at all!

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm sure he is very much more aware of the subtleties, implications and the small print. It is never going to be that simple. Putin is rebuilding his dream: Make Soviet Russia Great Again.

If he was aware, His country wouldn't be in this position. Regarding Putin, He is just doing what the West has been doing all along.