[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

These 3 countries were ruled by ruthless dictator regimes. All such regimes are corrupt, dangerous to humanity. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran are similar ones.

1/3rd of the world's population lives in those countries.
Let's bring "Freedom" to them because they're the Axis of Evil.

Oh by the way let's conveniently leave out the whole of the Persian Gulf who are beacons of democracy and have no role in terrorism or spreading extremist ideologies or actual wars (a war is going on right now creating a country wide famine) or incidents like 9/11. Nope nada. They're not the baddies. Because we buy their oil.

This view is so laughably one sided that it is sad.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Fantasy ? Is he not trying to restrict Ukraine join NATO and let US and allies bring their bases right at his door step ?
Or that I may be wrong !

But isn’t that in itself a challenge to a country’s sovereignty? Those former Warsaw Pact and ex soviet states weren’t coerced to join the western bloc such as EU and NATO but rather choose to join them out of their own free will with almost their entire population supporting this, given that these are democracies. These countries are amongst the most pro-EU and pro-NATO countries in the world. So, if Russia wants these countries to join their sphere of influence, they should offer a better deal rather than invading them as all the soviet system brought them was corruption and economic stagnation.

Also, the Russian insecurity of the expansion of NATO is quite recent and product of Putin’s Cold War mentality as President Yeltsin had explicitly stated back in the 90s that he doesn’t view the expansion of NATO as opposed to Russia. Heck, there was even a talk of Russia joining NATO!

These Eastern European countries are real and diverse countries (not tiny pieces of Russia) where the people have rights to choose who they want to side with and they choose the west. If there are US bases in these countries, it’s because they want NATO to protect them from Russia, more so after what happened in Ukraine.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by m8002?

They could have orchestrated a military coup, funded some revolution or propped up a counter candidate.

Back to back posts so mods please merge

That's exactly what happened to Ukraine around the Euro Maidan in 2014.
.
.
.
Except it wasn't Russia who did it.

Anyway, I don't believe in false equivalence. Just because the West does these does not mean Russia rolls in with their tanks.

But one must recognise that Ukraine was meant to be a buffer state post 1990. Instead she was used by competing great powers as a sphere of influence and now finds herself in a war.

The best case solution now is the country split down the middle, or a ceasefire agreement with Russia holding on to her enclaves and Ukraine getting back the remaining.

[greyhound82]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

This view is so laughably one sided that it is sad.

+1. Under west liberal narrative UAE and Saudi are democracies while elected leader Allande was not and they supported military junta headed by Pinochet and rest is history

A journalist asked below question on Iraqi sanctions to Madeleine Albright, who became US Secretary of State

" We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

To which Ambassador Albright responded,

I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it "

[condor]

Its possible that Zelensky has fled to Poland. If true, this wont be in the news for some more time.

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Russia backed Ukrainian rebels shot down an Malaysian Airlines civilian plane killing 298 civilians in 2014..

OTOH, that may be a cover up. The missile was fired from Ukraine, but no proof that Russia was involved. It could have been anyone else.

[deetee]

So far, NATO and US have restrained themselves from showing any direct aggression or involvement. But if this war prolongs, it can spill over in any direction and I am afraid then this will not be bilateral war anymore. I hope, for the good of everyone, this war ends soon or atleast a cease fire is reached in the next week.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by m8002?

That is fine. But how is attacking that country a justification? What about the loss of life and property there? They could have orchestrated a military coup, funded some revolution or propped up a counter candidate.

All those games were already played.

This revolution/counter revolution stuff did not started in 2014 but in 2004 itself. 2004 was the year of Orange revolution that West first wrested control from Russia (Yanukovich who was first declared winner and on recount his opponent has won who was Pro EU. Yulia who led the revolution become prime minister). In 2009, this got reversed with Yanukovich winning. He promptly jailed Yulia on corruption charges. He tilted the scales in favor of Russia.

In 2014, he refused the EU agreement which triggered the Euromaidan protests, he fled. Ukraine's west region is generally considered Ukrainian speaking ProEU and East is Russian speaking and Pro-Russian. Refer Wikipedia maps on the election graphs. So 2014 (and 2019) elections were not held in Crimea, Donestk, Luhansk which were already annexed by Russia and declared independent nations. Obviously, no guess who would have won.

Few days back, there were reports that Yanukovich is being prepped in Belarus to take over the reins after the invasion, if it is successful.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

But isn’t that in itself a challenge to a country’s sovereignty? Those former Warsaw Pact and ex soviet states weren’t coerced to join the western bloc such as EU and NATO but rather choose to join them out of their own free will with almost their entire population supporting this, given that these are democracies. These countries are amongst the most pro-EU and pro-NATO countries in the world. So, if Russia wants these countries to join their sphere of influence, they should offer a better deal rather than invading them as all the soviet system brought them was corruption and economic stagnation.

Also, the Russian insecurity of the expansion of NATO is quite recent and product of Putin’s Cold War mentality as President Yeltsin had explicitly stated back in the 90s that he doesn’t view the expansion of NATO as opposed to Russia. Heck, there was even a talk of Russia joining NATO!

These Eastern European countries are real and diverse countries (not tiny pieces of Russia) where the people have rights to choose who they want to side with and they choose the west. If there are US bases in these countries, it’s because they want NATO to protect them from Russia, more so after what happened in Ukraine.

Answer to this question lies in the below question

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

With due apologies to Narayan Sir, why does NATO want bases all across Europe anyway? Objective is solely to stifle Russia?

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by condor

The missile was fired from Ukraine, but no proof that Russia was involved. It could have been anyone else.

There is enough proof (phone calls, cell tower data, satellite imagery, actual video footage) that the missile was fired from regions held by Russian backed separatists. They actually managed to pick out the specific unit that did the deed for crying out loud.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-torez-snizhne

But I am sure some people will spin this as U.S.A planting their CIA spies into rebel forces in Donetsk so that they could commit war crimes and then blame it all on the Russians.

When the world has finally woken up to the damage that countries like the US have inflicted on this world over the past few decades does it really need another half a century before people start using their heads and see what the other side has done.

SideNote: I find it hilarious that there are guys who will swear that Bush knew that the WMDs were fake news when the IRAQ invasion began but somehow find it difficult to believe Putin Uncle is just as greedy, ruthless and even more unhinged.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by condor

OTOH, that may be a cover up. The missile was fired from Ukraine, but no proof that Russia was involved. It could have been anyone else.

Well no, the missile was definitely fired by Russian separatists aka military. It needed specialised equipment which had been moved to the area recently.

The group that did it initially posted a video on Twitter boasting how they'd brought down a military transport. When it was later identified to be a civilian plane the post was promptly deleted.

It was a case of mistaken identity and not intentional, but it was clearly done by the Russian backed forces. Also if I remember correctly MAS was the only one flying that airspace, other carriers had already diverted their flights.

[Poitive]

So it is coming to this.
A senator of the 'Civilized World'.

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter...w/89985733.cms

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by Poitive

So it is coming to this.
A senator of the 'Civilized World'

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter...w/89985733.cms

The US has yet to release over 3000 pages of the report on JFK assassination despite the fact that its 60+ years. Even trump was forced to not release those files.
The CIA and FBI state that releasing those documents will permanently tarnish the image of the USA among allies and also permanently tarnish the image of US government institutions among American people.

One must ask themself what is so damaging, if the report stated that they wanted to assassinate Castro, that will in no way cause damage among American people. But if the report states that CIA was responsible for assassinating JFK, then it can without doubt damage the reputation of the US among its citizens and its allies.

So for a country known for assassinating its own presidents, it wouldn't surprise me if they haven't done the same on other countries.

[Fuldagap]

After seeing many reports on the internet of thousands of Indian students still stuck in Ukraine, it is pretty evident that unless the war stops soon, there is not going to be an end to their plight.

The machinery is busy in PR events instead of actual ground work. Funny videos of even employees in uniforms aiding the PR for the govt are disheartening and hope shattering. There was a rumour of the war being stopped for 06 hours to evacuate Indian students too, that also came out to be false. Simply silly and pathetic state of affairs.

Students there are facing almost zero degree celcius temperatures, acute shortage of food and water, lack of electricity, bombardments all around, live view of killings and destruction and almost no hopes of any support. Moreover, the students have zero knowledge of their future prospects now, some even being at the verge of completion of their studies but most probably won't be getting the completion certificates/degrees now. Some students will come out of the even tougher mentally but some may be ruined psychologically for a very long period of time.

This is amplified by some people in general and politicians in particular, including the PM himself, questioning the need of studying in Ukraine or outside India.
Despite several wars with Pakistan, students go there too to study. Students from all over the world including countries like France, Britain, Germany etc come to India too to study even in places like Jharkhand and Bihar. IMHO it is a lack of ethics and morality that even the students stuck there have become a piece of mockery and PR for some.

Maybe the students or their guardians are poor decision makers or it is a disguise to hide the reluctance or incapability of the govt to extend full support and help to the ailing students and their families in such a time as bad as a war. Whatever it is, lets just hope no one is left behind and each student gets safely evacuated sooner or later.

[Amrik Singh]

The dilemma of Russia can be visualized if we in India, imagine a scenario.
China firmly based in Sri Lanka, Pakistan backed by China poking India and Nepal (already growing resentment against. India) & Bangladesh siding China !!
How safe would we feel in India ? Same is with Russia. Not just losing allies, but allies joining foes. Cannot foresee its end.

And the suffering of public - we all know, since ages, in the game of Chess, ordinary Pawns are sacrificed to protect the Powers.

[Poitive]

OT:

Originally Posted by deetjohn

this is absolutely nuts on multiple levels!

https://twitter.com/skbozphd/status/...156705282?s=24

Mr. McAdams is welcomed back on the show with grace. The comedy of errors video had incorrect names on the screen, so a significant part of the blame falls on the producers.

Link: https://mobile.twitter.com/TimesNow/...76370359951363



@mods: Posted here despite somewhat OT due to a sense of fairness towards the anchor, considering his attempt to make up.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Poitive

So it is coming to this.
A senator of the 'Civilized World'.

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter...w/89985733.cms

Not surprising coming from a republican from the country which has had 4 presidential assasinations in 100 years.

What continues to baffle me is that even after whistleblowers like Snowden and Assange, the US juggernaut continues, bulldozing anything in its way, under the hilarious fig-leaf of civil liberties, human rights & that new buzzword "the new world order"- what better example of "Jiski lathi usi ki bhains"?

Just saw a re-cast of Times Now World's last night's debate, where Gen.Bakshi, one of the panellists stated emphatically that the core reason for the war is that the Russian Duma had just declared that there were 6 bio-weapons research labs operating in Ukraine under US cover.

The US and its imaginary WMD in Iraq - and now Russia's accusations of WMD in Ukraine?