[deetjohn]

This is absolutely nuts on multiple levels!

https://twitter.com/skbozphd/status/...156705282?s=24

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

this is absolutely nuts on multiple levels!

https://twitter.com/skbozphd/status/...156705282?s=24

What a moron of a host! Typical I-know-better-than-everyone attitude and can't even figure out who he's interviewing!

[AjinkyaP]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

this is absolutely nuts on multiple levels!

https://twitter.com/skbozphd/status/...156705282?s=24

That “Ohh…” sums up existence of most of the Indian national media.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

I am not at all going into the PR exercise at all, hardly anything is left which has not been turned into a PR exercise anymore !!

Agree with most of your post, but in my humble opinion this dig is political and uncalled for.

It's almost the same as so called WhatsApp University Graduates who are blaming the students with being casual and arrogant because it portrays their political party in a bad light.

It is clear that there were lapses in the government's procedure, and that the students and citizens are facing real hardships and threat to their lives, and that the ministry is now working with both warring parties to bring people back home.

Fault finding can be done without accusing either the government's political masters or name-calling the students.

I doubt that the politicians even decide how to respond to times of crisis like this. The ministry and embassies must have SOPs in place and that would be irrespective of which color party runs the government. We credit our politicians too much when it's the bureaucracy which is mostly in charge.

But bipartisan acceptance is gone, so I don't expect anything else. All political parties agreed to be united on this topic and then of course started taking pot shots at each other. It's the same in America - the fault lines are too deeply marked.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

this is absolutely nuts on multiple levels!

https://twitter.com/skbozphd/status/...156705282?s=24

Foot, socks, boots, a bottle of shoe polish, and a large tub of humble pie. All firmly in his mouth!

[JithinR]

Nothing to see here. Just the patriotic/nationalist Russian police following orders from their great leader serving just desserts to a western crisis actor (or are we calling them Nazi sympathizers these days?).

https://youtu.be/Q3MoMrX1bog

[DIY410]

Protests happen everywhere including the US Vietnam war. Protestors where even shot dead in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVNUlOUlMeo

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

This thread has now turned into how USA is responsible for what Russia is doing to Ukraine and how Russia is so right while it invades a sovereign country. It’s appalling that the current invasion is being justified in the name of what US did in the past. So much so, that even human lives lost are a matter of debate and speculation !!

All this while, I thought innocent human lives have values. Now I realise they don’t. Also, the basic notion that I understood from the thread- no matter what you do, it’s the one who provokes is the culprit and that’s why Putin is a hero who is out to protect his country from enemies.
...

Mate, I really do appreciate your sentiment. When I allow myself, I too feel sentimental about the whole affair. Just that as was more eloquently conveyed before on the thread: Individuals might have morals and sentiments; Nations do not.

Further, when I think about saving lives, Zelensky with all the intel at his disposal and being well aware of what was in store, made a choice: to sacrifice people's lives than give assurances to not join NATO. One interpretation could also hold him responsible.

About another perspective with hints to reasons why this war might have happened, without any reference to "because the US bombed xyz" on this post. On my first post on this thread (link) I mentioned it as one of a set of perspectives, and it being from a Russian side, and expressed that there is a US/West perspective to consider as well.

It is all very subjective. I am not sure one can clearly say who is responsible for this war. Much of media is used for propaganda, and one where the West is dominant in regions where English is widespread. This thread could be seen as a refreshing change from such propaganda, as, sprinkled between repetitive views you'll also find good analysis, appropriate historical references and interpretations, new information, and many different perspectives - your's being one as well. While I was surprised to find a thread on the topic since it is of a political nature and avoided it for several days, when I did read it, I found it enriching.

Further enriched by this post of yours:

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Below is the most important part here where the embassy clearly mentions that large number of queries regarding confirmation of online classes have been pouring in and that the embassy is talking to respective universities and this on 22nd February and Indian nationals and students should leave the country without waiting for confirmation from the universities. This was the advisory where the embassy is clearly telling the students to not wait for the confirmation and to leave the country irrespective.
....
Next advisory tells all Indian nationals to stay put at their respective places. Air fares meanwhile have shot through the roof and many students and Indian nationals plead with the government to look after the airfares.

I do sincerely thank you for this post, as it made me consider things in perspective, and saved me from being swayed with the barrage of messages around on the topic with a one sided view based on insufficient information.

Wise folk do add much to the thread and the forum.

My wishes for your friend's relative to return home safely.

- Poitive

[fhdowntheline]

I totally sympathize with the Indian evacuees but :
i) nobody officially forced them to choose Ukraine to study or to take up employment.
ii) They should have connected with their embassy ever since war clouds started hovering and the embassy issued advisories.
iii) While they no doubt suffered a lot, they are far better off than Ukrainians who have had to leave their home and hearth, and who face a much more uncertain future in their own lands. Some of them may not have a home or job left. Indian students are being welcomed by an active, functioning administration and their own families at home.

The one thing I would like to point out is that with such a large diaspora, the MEA must take more specific active steps to stay in touch with its citizens abroad. For instance, MEA should have a database to contact Indians through the respective embassies. There could be a large call center catering to multiple geographies , even outsource this if required. That data should also include their next of kin back in India, so things can be coordinated better at all times. And there must be a mandatory instruction to contact the Embassy and update the contact data every 6 months or so, and this instruction must be passed on at the point of departure at every airport in India.
And finally, perhaps reaching out with roses, sloganeering and meet and greet by ministers is a bit unnecessary- But the politics behind this is so bad that any half brained political leader can rave and rant falsehoods and paint a totally perception in the media, and these are taken seriously enough for a discussion.

[EV NXT]

Quoting a post on LinkedIn by Ramnik Bansal.

Originally Posted by 5270503

Look, when you leave India, you leave for better opportunities which India cannot provide. And thats good. But then should this responsibility of bringing you back to India on Indian tax payers' money suddenly ends up lying on Indian shoulders if those opportunities turn into a war zone?

On humanitarian grounds definitely yes, on the grounds of Indian culture of belongingness defintely yes, but then why this hue and cry and drama that Indian government is not doing enough for you? Why shame and blame Indian government and demand quick services like Indian government is a waiter in your dad's hotel. If you have to keep this kind of attitude then use the money and resources you used earlier to leave India to now come back also. Or else own the country you went to and live and die with their citizens. They are also humans - they are not creating any drama. They are fighting for their nation. They are requesting and pleading for help. And they deserve it on humanitarian grounds. But you guys are demanding like Modi himself forced you to study in Ukraine.

Request help and you shall get it. Demean, blame and shame Indian government and then also forcibly demand help and be ungrateful even when help is being provided. This is utter anti-nationalism.

This is a war situation. Not some car broken down on the road. Rescuing people from this can be an impossible task. And not only is India using its diplomacy, but also sending its sons of soil, to get Indians back home, putting their lives in danger for your sake. The #operationganga needs appreciation at mass level not irresponsible cribbing and complaining that government is not doing enough.

Not everyone may possibly get rescued. This is war. I reiterate. Look at numbers that are already being rescued and those that will be, than looking at a handful that could not be, despite Indian Government's best efforts.

All of us in India pray that each one of you come back but show some Indian bravery on foreign soil not Indian irresponsibility and complaining mindset. All the Ukrainians are in a situations infinity times worse than yours. They are losing their country, their toddlers, their sons and husbands and brothers and daughters and mothers, their houses, their material wealth, their friends - almost everything else other than their love for their own nation. Learn some nation love from them in these most difficult times. And if you can - go a step further. Be an Indian hero to them, stand and walk with their toddlers and children and the elderly, holding their hand.

[Sebring]

Naveen Shekarappa was the Indian student who died in Ukraine. I have watched his father's interview in kannada. It was literally a 'do or die' situation for the boy from a poor farmers family. Pursuing his future in Medicine in India would mean crores and crores spent in just filling pockets and fees (He was a 97% scorer). People from his village collected the 60 lakhs needed for him, and sent him for an education that they could afford. Now, when you have gone there with such difficulty and borrowed money would you drop everything at the drop of a hat and return home with a future ruined? So he must have stuck around hoping things will get better. As coming back would mean a ruined life surely, in more ways than one

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

i) nobody officially forced them to choose Ukraine to study or to take up employment.
ii) They should have connected with their embassy ever since war clouds started hovering and the embassy issued advisories.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Naveen Shekarappa was the Indian student who died in Ukraine. I have watched his father's interview in kannada. It was literally a 'do or die' situation for the boy from a poor farmers family. Pursuing his future in Medicine in India would mean crores and crores spent in just filling pockets and fees (He was a 97% scorer). People from his village collected the 60 lakhs needed for him, and sent him for an education that they could afford. Now, when you have gone there with such difficulty and borrowed money would you drop everything at the drop of a hat and return home with a future ruined? So he must have stuck around hoping things will get better. As coming back would mean a ruined life surely, in more ways than one

Every case would have specific circumstances and backgrounds. Is it possible for the government to look in to this under such circumstances ? This is exactly the reason why the MEA should proactively connect with both the overseas Indians and their families in India advising them directly, instead of just using social media. And then again, better be alive with hope than stay around with certainty of disaster. Although all this comes with a caveat- perhaps he was indeed trying to find ways to get back? We dont really know.

[WorkingGuru]

Those who've returned alive from a raging war, should only reconsider if they've their priorities correct.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

History has only one purpose. To understand and learn from it not to repeat the mistakes. Holding the grudges will only nurture hatred.

Well then that is what Russia is doing and also India by not voting against them in the UN for their attack on Ukraine.

Back in 1971 when the US realised that the war between India and Pakistan was tilting in India’s favour what did they do? Under the pretext of evacuating American citizens from the warzone, Nixon ordered the US Seventh Fleet’s Task Force 74, led by the nuclear powered aircraft carrier Enterprise towards the Bay of Bengal. At the same time, UK dispatched its aircraft carrier HMS Eagle in the Arabian Sea.

The situation had gone so desperate for India that Admiral N. Krishnan, the chief of the Eastern Command of the Indian Navy, wrote in his book, 'No Way But Surrender' that he was afraid that the Americans will reach Chittagong and how they even thought of attacking Enterprise, in a do or die move, to slow it down.

When the Indian government sent an SOS to the Soviet they responded and deployed two groups of cruisers and destroyers as well as a submarine armed with nuclear warheads to block them. The British ships fled towards Madagascar while the larger US task force stopped before entering the Bay of Bengal.

This was one of the biggest PR disasters for America in India and the Indians never forget and stand by their true friends who have stood by them in all weathers.

India was Neutral during

1) Iraq

2) Afghanistan

3) Syria

So why can’t the West just accept India’s Neutral stand now? Or is it because a European country is under attack now???

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Dictating to sovereign countries is demeaning. Exhibition of superiority is in fact due to inferiority complex.

For this I present you The Monroe Doctrine in which Monroe asserted that the New World and the Old World were to remain distinctly separate spheres of influence,and thus further efforts by European powers to control or influence sovereign states in the region would be viewed as a threat to U.S. security.

Is it too much for Russia to demand the same from the West to practise what they preach to the world?

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Strength has no meaning if it can't protect the powerless from injustice. True leaders are rare, and Zelensky is one of them.

If Russia didn’t show the strength then its people would have to live their lives under US missile threat for life. And if the world feels its injustice on Ukraine then what is stopping the West from entering the war directly as it was their creation wasn’t it or the theory is still that it was based on a threat which was not actual in nature? The West attacks country at the drop of a hat to deliver Justice don’t they?

Zelensky in the end just got played by the West and should have realised and still can its only his people and his country who are taking the direct brunt of this misadventure with Russia. As far as America goes its good business as many countries will open their wallets to buy American arms (largest arms exporter) and business will thrive who will enter Ukraine to rebuild it a cost which will be paid by Ukraine citizens..

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Naveen Shekarappa was the Indian student who died in Ukraine. I have watched his father's interview in kannada. It was literally a 'do or die' situation for the boy from a poor farmers family. Pursuing his future in Medicine in India would mean crores and crores spent in just filling pockets and fees (He was a 97% scorer). People from his village collected the 60 lakhs needed for him, and sent him for an education that they could afford.

Sir, with due respect to you, don't fall for this narrative of poor farmer's family. I totally sympathize with Dr. Naveen and his family, truly tragic, no doubt. Just that I don't buy this story of poor background and that other villagers helped him collect 60 lakhs !! I am a Doctor myself, having done my MBBS and MD both from Govt. Merit GM category through CET exams. I belong to a typical middle class family and I am more than sure, no one who claims himself to be "poor" can afford a medical education in Ukraine or Russia ( even though it is lesser than India ). Period. However, there is no point in discussing this ( also it's out of scope of this thread ), I have my condolences to Dr. Naveen's family. Shall be shortly replying to other members who have quoted my post yesterday. Thanks

[condor]

Putin and Zelensky are a world or two apart. Zelensky, former comedian, and first time in politics - that too as president.

Putin, a career agent. Knows how to prepare for something before the actual action. And this is what he has done over the past few years.


* Built substantial Gold reserves

* Sold all its US treasury holding.

* Paid off most of Russia's debt, and reduced Debt.


Even if this wasn't in preparation for military action, #1 and #3 are excellent work. #2 would be more in preparation for taking on NATO. This must also be seen against their current account surplus. And they dont need to import oil or gas. On the other hand, US debt is going up and up, they need to import oil and gas.

Putin's actions arent knee jerk either - he has been telling NATO for a long time to Not expand upto his borders.