[ABHI_1512]

This thread has now turned into how USA is responsible for what Russia is doing to Ukraine and how Russia is so right while it invades a sovereign country. It’s appalling that the current invasion is being justified in the name of what US did in the past. So much so, that even human lives lost are a matter of debate and speculation !!

All this while, I thought innocent human lives have values. Now I realise they don’t. Also, the basic notion that I understood from the thread- no matter what you do, it’s the one who provokes is the culprit and that’s why Putin is a hero who is out to protect his country from enemies.

Garry Kasparov must be a mad man to say such horrible things about Putin all these years. I wonder what was the need for him to run from Russia and take the citizenship of Croatia !!

Almost all of us tend to be more extreme, vocal, and opinionated online, especially tending to take rigid stands when engaged in online debate. In real life, when faced with real people and real situations, most of us are better and real human beings. So I think we can just treat forum debates as just that- forum debates.

Just that I thought this forum to be little different from the other online forums, my bad !!

P.S- Mods, feel free to delete if OT.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

All this while, I thought innocent human lives have values. Now I realise they don’t.

Almost all of us tend to be more extreme, vocal, and opinionated online, especially tending to take rigid stands when engaged in online debate. In real life, when faced with real people and real situations, most of us are better and real human beings. So I think we can just treat forum debates as just that- forum debates.

[vishnurp99]

I am concerned about the west pumping small to medium weapons like Rifles and hand-held Missiles into Ukraine. How will they ensure that these weapons don't fall into the wrong hands or it doesn't land up in other conflict zones including Afghanistan or balochistan, Iraq/syria etc with non-state actors? I am pretty sure that the Ukraine army is in tatters and there are no formal command & control structures now with arms being given to all kinds of civilians.

What is the west really trying to achieve here? or is this just an attempt to pacify their populations at home and give them a sense of comfort saying that we are helping the Ukraine.

Why is this not being raised by any so-called responsible nation?

[das_ren_auto]

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

Again, Bay of Pigs was not by the US Army right? Planned by CIA I assume but JFK backed off at the last minute or so which lead to it's failure or am I missing something here?

Kennedy had no other option but to bakeoff because the landing operation failed . Fidel Castro himself was leading from the front. US Government did not want to highlight their direct involvement by carrying out airstrikes after the failure of the operation.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I am concerned about the west pumping small to medium weapons like Rifles and hand-held Missiles into Ukraine.

The War will end sooner or later (unless it escalates to WW-III and end of human race), but hatred and these arms will live forever. This will keep terrorism alive in Europe - in the Eastern Europe to be precise.

[volkman10]

Indian students slam 'gutless' govt for offering roses instead of support in Ukraine

Our government is at fault. The US government informed its citizens on time, ours told us at the very end

We are being given this (flowers) after returning to India. What should I do with this rose? What would our families do if something happened to us there?

They brought us in flights from a safe country, Romania, to here. How can this be called evacuation?

Link

[Amrik Singh]

Indian Students in Ukraine were flying high when advisories to evacuate were issued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBHrfWX2xT0

[saket77]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Indian students slam 'gutless' govt for offering roses instead of support in Ukraine

https://www.deccanherald.com/nationa...e-1087476.html

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Indian Students in Ukraine were flying high when advisories to evacuate were issued

Whatever be the color of the Govt, I cannot imagine that some people can be so thankless. What do these guys think? That Air India planes will board them directly from their hostels? Or were they waiting for a free flight back to India?

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Indian students slam 'gutless' govt for offering roses instead of support in Ukraine

Link

Such shameless people, they should have air dropped right in the middle of the conflict.
Inspite of multiple advisories these idiots stayed back. Now after a lot of efforts with multiple countries, these idiots are brought back and still cribbing.
No other country has taken care of their citizens like India did.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by saket77

Whatever be the color of the Govt, I cannot imagine that some people can be so thankless. What do these guys think? That Air India planes will board them directly from their hostels? Or were they waiting for a free flight back to India?

Maybe they thought its an Uber/Ola ride and expected pick up from location...

Our government is at fault. The US government informed its citizens on time, ours told us at the very end

This is really funny, if they knew the US govt is calling their citizens then why did they stay back? Maybe expected a free ride back home? Or they felt safe as their govt didn't issue an advisory and they considered the threat to citizens was country specific at that point?

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by saket77

Or were they waiting for a free flight back to India?

Oh they got their free flights back. Perhaps the government should ask these ingrates to pay the bill of the "transport" operations before they are cleared to ever fly out of the country again. In the DH article linked above, one student claims that:

Aneesh, a student from Bengaluru, in a terse message, said that the government did not have the "guts" to step foot in Ukraine. He was part of a group of students who was flown back to Karnataka from Hungary. The student also said that his group was able to reach the Hungarian border safely only because of the Indian flag that they had attached to the bus and urged ministers to "stop showing off."

Do these super-intelligent beings think that the spray painted Indian flags had some magical powers which repelled all hostile forces? The tricolour was only able to save them because assurances were obtained from the HIGHEST levels that tricolour carrying people/vehicles would not be touched. Can someone explain where these students get such entitlement from?

[samm]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Ok, So if US decided that a country with a 'dictator' which is detrimental to its allies (not even to itself), it can go all out on the dictator as well ruin the country by hook or crook. So we should all clap our hands and say 'Job well done' and live happily ever after.

However, if Russia decides that a country with a person elected in questionable means which is detrimental to its own defense, it cannot even act and have to accept its fate.

This is exactly the way American politicians behave and the rationale behind every covert and overt operations all over the world.

Ukraine president elected in questionable means. Russian president can amend constitution and rule forever. Interesting.

Now, when some people does some nonsense, others can go on a killing and destruction spree. We can justify everything with some reason or other, based on the fireworks available in the godown and depth of pockets.

Also, according to the laws of nature, entropy always increases!

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

This thread has now turned into how USA is responsible for what Russia is doing to Ukraine and how Russia is so right while it invades a sovereign country. It’s appalling that the current invasion is being justified in the name of what US did in the past.

Rather, I found this thread has all types of posts - Supporting Ukraine, Supporting USA, Supporting Russia, Analyzing the reasons, Tracing the historical imbalances and fault lines, Geo politics, India's stance - Support and oppose, excellent historical references as well real time information of the news as it happens in the ground. May be, I see what I wanted to See.

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

So much so, that even human lives lost are a matter of debate and speculation !! All this while, I thought innocent human lives have values. Now I realise they don’t.

If I have to think philosophically, humans 'value' lives only till the need or greed takes over. This is not new but happening since time immemorial. If not, we would not have 'moved up the primitive ladder' from stone ages.

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Also, the basic notion that I understood from the thread- no matter what you do, it’s the one who provokes is the culprit and that’s why Putin is a hero who is out to protect his country from enemies.

I will take help from an old Tamil adage - எய்தவன் இருக்க அம்பை நோவதேன்? (Meaning - Why to blame the arrow when the one who pulled the shot is available).

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Just that I thought this forum to be little different from the other online forums, my bad !!

At the end of the day, we are not decision makers and have just an interest in geopolitics, war and history. So it is just an expression of thoughts nothing more. I still feel this is very different for an automotive forum (that has united all of us) having diverse views in a very different topic. There is absolutely nothing right or wrong in having views and expressing it. Just expecting everyone to align to only one view is...

PS: If I did not become a member, I would have still enjoyed reading all the posts. So my request is to please contribute without the need to judge others.

[akhil_007]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

This thread has now turned into how USA is responsible for what Russia is doing to Ukraine and how Russia is so right while it invades a sovereign country. It’s appalling that the current invasion is being justified in the name of what US did in the past. So much so, that even human lives lost are a matter of debate and speculation !!

There is a different interpretation/assessment as well, though it might not be in limelight.

There is NO accountability, NO ONE to answer to, for any nation that invades, provokes, attacks etc any other country. Reasons/Justifications to invade is mostly a Window Dressing behind "Might" of a country.

UN has shown once again that it is powerless, toothless, sinkhole of money & resources in these situations. (Not contesting UN role/contributions in peacekeeping, human aid etc)

[Neil Roy]

War is death, war is destruction. In this day and age when diplomacy could have solved the issues, here we are now looking at war real time in our TVs as perverted voyeurs and posting opinions citing our interpretations of history. Meanwhile in Ukraine, women and children are being exposed to the consequences of bombing every day. It's easy for us keyboard warriors to take sides, but if the shoe were on the other foot and we were at the receiving end of the pointed gun and the inevitability of death, would we still be posting opinions? Its a sad day when the so called leaders of the 21st century cant see eye to eye and value human life as an expendable bargaining chip. Post covid, I thought that social distancing was the new normal and thinking how did we goof up this bad.
Now, maybe seeing images of war and hapless children's right to survival being denied with opinions of who is to blame being vociferously explained without even having a logical solution is the new normal.
Shame on the our world leaders whose collective stupidity brought this world the where we are. The blood of all the innocents whose only fault is to be born at the wrong country at the wrong time will be on their hands.