[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by OPMaurya

We alternately use TDS and Hardness but there is a difference between both. More pertinent is the point that we cannot use a TDS meter to gauge water hardness. AFAIK.
Water hardness is measured by a test kit that gives an idea of the hardness causing ( Ca ions).

TDS Meter provides information on all the ions, not just the hardness causing ions.

Have used the below product and found it to be good:
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B016QERCFO

For TDS, I rely on a handheld TDS meter. Beware, there are plenty of knockoffs of HM Digital, which are best avoided.

https://www.hmdigitalindia.com/products/ap-1

You need to do a hardness test with a test kit - it only detects Mg/Ca in the water. We did both.

[LaughingMan]

I would like to share my experience of using Kent Auto Softener 25L costing about 60k (https://www.kent.co.in/water-softene.../kent-autosoft) after using it for over a year. We live in an area where the hardness of water ranges from 1200 to 1800. After a bit of research between Eureka and Kent, we went ahead with Kent and installed it right after the overhead tank in this order Raw Water Supply --> Jumbo Thread Filter --> OverheadTank --> Booster Pump --> Softener.

Initially the experience was ok, however after a few months the softener started underperforming and barely generated any soft water (easiest test is to check if a soap produces lather), we reached out to Kent Customer Care and the technician who visited our place declared that the resin had to be changed as there was a lot of sediment in our water. Our wait extended for over two months and after continuous follow ups with Kent and some nasty emails to their bosses, the resin was changed. Overall the softener consumes about 25kg of softener salt worth Rs 400 every 20-25 days. Apart from this Kent provides warranty support for just 1 year and there is no AMC provided as well. The cost to change the resin is about 10k.

Few learnings:
1. Always ensure that raw/hard water that is being sent into the softener doesnt have sediment as pointed out by few others - we can go for a jumbo thread filter (filters particles upto 5 microns, however needs replacement every 2-3 months) or a sediment filter (filters particles upto 20 microns and is relatively maintenance free as long as back washes are done as per schedule)

2. Key in the right hardness value in the softener so that there is a continuous supply of soft water

3. Ensure that there is adequate supply of salt so that regeneration is not interrupted

4. Maintain the brine intake tube by cleaning it periodically to ensure that salt bridges are not formed

Hope this helps someone in need

[snr]

We were on the lookout for this kind of a set up for our home. I'll probably have to do more research on the same! Thank you for the info!

[commander]

Originally Posted by katchkamalesh

I wanted to share my experience with using ZeroB water softener and a sediment filter. I am pretty sure that this review is going to help other people who are contemplating using any kind of water softener for their entire house. I, for one, was not able to find any reviews online before my purchase and had to trust the sales advisors.

Originally Posted by MADMAX111

I had also done some research on this as was planning to install a water conditioning device in my penthouse. I realised that installing a whole house RO is much better in ensuring good water supply with much less trouble. Cons are it is much more expensive( around 2.5 lac) for a big house(5 bathrooms and kitchen) and it wastes water.

Originally Posted by proton

The system provides water for his ingredients, as well as for his steam generation requirements. He tests for TDS every week. I do it monthly, when I regenerate the system, manually. There are imported systems with electronics, timers, pumps, brine tanks that can be set up for home automation, but I feel it's overkill. Do it yourself is quite do able. The softening saves on washing machine, geysers, taps maintenance costs, as well as drinking water costs. I use an RO only in the kitchen, producing bottled water quality water for cooking and drinking, by removing the small amount of sodium that is produced by the process. Very good value for large houses and families.

Being in the water field for the last six years and being associated with multi brands, my two cents on the subject. I am very sorry about the negative experience on the whole. This is my input solely as a team bhpian and not going into commercials of it.

There is no other solution other than a whole house water softener if your input water hardness exceeds 400 (not tds). With our current quality of water which will eventually be worse in a decade I presume. Softeners work on the principle of ion exchange and the two key components are resin capacity and resin quality. Automated systems for regeneration are a big plus provided they work as per company commitment.

While constructing a new house or renovation this product will be the last investment during the completion of a house. I have seen customers skip to the lower cost product from their initial plans because of the never ending expenses and it happens. I'm merely saying we trust the product will work and if it comes with a brand we are more convinced.

Unbranded - Costs between 30k to 60k. Mostly manual systems. Huge in size. Unless you are 100% sure that vendor will stand by you go for it. Otherwise best avoided. The system is only as good as the resin used.

Zero B - Known brand with years of experience. Does not work above 3bar pressure. Cost 40000 to 1lakh max based on resin capacity for input water. Cost effective, branded, auto regen but service and customer experiences are 50:50. Resin life is lower than expected.

Kent: I have not worked with their products.

3M: Known brand. Auto regen, good quality and resin life around 6-7 years. Expensive. Range starts from 1.3L to 2.5L depending on input water. Service handled directly by 3M so you can expect service within reasonable timeframe.

Again this is based on my customer experiences with the products. 3M is far superior in terms of reliability and service but you will be making a good amount of investment. Zero B is very cost effective and now become branded. Experiences are ok so far but depends to see how long products will be efficient in the long run.


RO: A whole house RO range averages from 4-5lakhs. The yearly maintenance for a RO system for drinking water costs between 3to5k. Imagine 30 -40% water wastage and yearly maintenance in a full house RO system.

Scale prevention filters: Works but range limited when used independently as a single system alone. Frequent cleaning of cartridges necessary. Yearly cartridge replacement.

Magnetic / Galvanisation: I have never trusted these systems as the science behind them are not sound. Still I hear some feedback coming about them but I'm yet to experience it. Also new companies keep cropping every now and then.

[katchkamalesh]

Originally Posted by commander

Being in the water field for the last six years and being associated with multi brands, my two cents on the subject.

Thank you for your inputs.

Since you are in this field, would you be able to answer the below queries?
1. Can we do the maintenance ourselves or hire a local technician instead of a company technician?
2. elaborate the cost involved in changing the resin and
3. Can use rock salt for regeneration?

[earthian]

Originally Posted by commander

Being in the water field for the last six years and being associated with multi brands, my two cents on the subject.

Thank you for your comments. I am looking for a water softener for the whole house ( we are two people only). We would like reliable and easy to use plant since our appetite for maintenance is low. We have a water pump manufacturing factory near our house who also sells softeners. He sells the following brand:

Since the facility is near our farm house, i hope maintenance attendance would be quick. However, what would be the recurring cost of such plants?

[commander]

Originally Posted by katchkamalesh

Thank you for your inputs.

1. Can we do the maintenance ourselves or hire a local technician instead of a company technician?
2. elaborate the cost involved in changing the resin and
3. Can use rock salt for regeneration?

1. Manual system you will have to do backwash and regen for about 30-40 minutes. Automated systems you just have to add salt and let the system do .
2. I dont do assembled systems. So you will have to check with vendors. For comparison 3m resin costs around 400per kilo.

3. Yes.

Originally Posted by earthian

Thank you for your comments. I am looking for a water softener for the whole house ( we are two people only). We would like reliable and easy to use plant since our appetite for maintenance is low.

Since your usage is low, you can try a trusted vendor if your 100% sure. Opt for auto regeneration systems as they are fill and forget salt every 10 days. If budget permits blindly go for 3M WTS 28. You will not regret it.

[aargee]

Gentlemen, if I may kindly suggest, not because I'm affiliated, but from my reclusive futile attempts to solve our 1200+ PPM water for over a decade, I think this might be a slightly better solution to reduce the PPM that is an extremely costly affair as well. But, I think, this is the best money can buy with a little peace of mind as well. Even the custom built solution for large apartment are little unreliable

https://www.3mindia.in/3M/en_IN/puri...ter-softeners/

Two main reasons we had to stay off was:
1. Cost (was told 1.13L over 8+ years ago for entire house)
2. Requires 2 types of maintenance - Refilling salt + cleaning filters + replacing resin. The last one is expensive affair!

If cost is not a barrier, this should serve reliably well with good support & most importantly better convenience (as this is fully automatic)

[earthian]

Originally Posted by commander

Since your usage is low, you can try a trusted vendor if your 100% sure. Opt for auto regeneration systems as they are fill and forget salt every 10 days. If budget permits blindly go for 3M WTS 28. You will not regret it.

Originally Posted by aargee

Gentlemen, if I may kindly suggest, not because I'm affiliated, but from my reclusive futile attempts to solve our 1200+ PPM water for over a decade, I think this might be a slightly better solution

Thank you both. Shall try and contact 3 M and get a quote.

[AdhikR]

Originally Posted by vinaydatla

For water treatment solutions, I would suggest 3M water treatment. They have a varied range of products starting from de-scaling to end to end softeners.

Hello, I too am looking at a 3M water softener with a resin capacity of 42L. The total CaCo3 hardness at my place about 610. Are 3M softners reliable for the long-run? How is the after sales service? Thanks

[vinaydatla]

Originally Posted by AdhikR

Hello, I too am looking at a 3M water softener with a resin capacity of 42L. The total CaCo3 hardness at my place about 610. Are 3M softners reliable for the long-run? How is the after sales service? Thanks

I haven't installed them in my house as the dealer tested the water source and suggested that we don't need any further water treatment.

Our water source was municipal water (HMWSSB).

[Jeroen]

I just came across this thread. Just wanted to share my experience here in our home in the Netherlands. We moved here just under five years ago. It’s an old farm with several extension. Prior to us moving in we had a lot of work done. All three bathrooms as well as the two kitchens and downstairs loo were completely renewed. So we had nice clean new tiles, taps, sinks, shower heads everywhere.

Our water hardness is in the 7-8 oD (German hardness degrees). Which isn’t too bad really. But within a few years of use we noticed limestone stains everywhere that were becoming increasingly more difficult to remove.

So we decided to get a water softener. We use about. 2000 m3 of water annually. I did quite a bit research, had three companies come around. Finally we decided on a water pressure operated salt/resin based duplex water softener. Don’t believe any of the claims made on the magnetic systems. They just don’t work!

Although it is just my wife and me living here, we tend to have guest staying with us very often. If anything almost every week one of our kids/partner and grand children are staying with us. So I wanted a good capacity that would allow us to run two showers at the same time, no problem. I finally choose this one, a Dutch manufacturer. It was not cheap, Euro 2000 (INR 160000). For that they deliver and install the unit and start it up and I got three bags of salt.

This unit has a bypass filter which is really handy when watering our garden. The unit delivers water at about 1.6-1.8 oD. For various reasons you are not supposed to go any lower. I must admit it works really well. We use probably about half the amount of soap, detergent and shampoo, compared to before. Love washing my cars with it. Also, I do the hosing down of the woodwork on our house as well clean all the outside windows myself now.

We have had it for about 8 months now. The lime scale that had built up is slowly diminishing as well. The unit, in particular the resin, needs servicing every two years. You could do it yourself. Certainly the first time I will get the service engineer and watch him do it. This thing is supposed to last at least twenty years. So expensive initial outlay, but we should be good for twenty years.

With full duplex we always have soft water. This unit just uses less than 20l to flush and regenerate every 1000l of water. So very efficient.






Jeroen

[Dr Alpha]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I just came across this thread. Just wanted to share my experience here in our home in the Netherlands.

Jeroen

Hi..
this is my first reply in team bhp. Didn’t expect it to be in a thread not related to automobiles
IMHO it’s not safe to drink or use softened water to wash car since the Mg and Ca ions are replaced by Na ions which may lead to kidney related diseases and hypertension in the long run. Not safe to wash automobiles for the obvious Reasons.But it’s safe to use it for drinking and cooking purposes once you treat it through RO systems.

Cheers
Dr Alpha

[prithm]

I am currently in market for Whole house mainline water softener and frankly its discouraging to see so many contrasting experiences shared by past,present users.

I live in a Coastal zone and due to excessive and unrepentant ground water usage, Sea Water has ingressed. This is causing the taste, hardness and overall quality of water so badly that we are unable to grow seedlings in garden without treated water.

For garden we are solely dependent on Municipal water which is getting its share from City Corporation Water Supply. Though it has its own fair share of contaminants, we use it for general purposes only.

The ground water which is our primary source of water is hard and causes bathroom tiles and fittings get stained in just few days.

Thus, I embarked on this trip to get the Softener for entire house. But after reading this thread, I am now feeling that its better to not push my hard earned money into it given :

1. Back flush system for entire house systems uses approx 300-500 lts every week. That is a huge number in area that I live.
2. Back flush water is not garden usable. Thus, I need to find a way to push it into public sewer which again will mean I need to cut the road and get Municipality permission.
3. Resin media seems very dodgy. I asked them to provide any certification such as FDA + ISI, but they are unable to provide one.
4. Purity of flush media. Local shops rock salt is filled with so much gunk that its blocking the inlet pipe. That entire system is a financial investment on its own.
5. People are saying metals rust faster with whole house softener treated water so vehicles have to be kept eye on.
6. Pressure pump is another significant investment and in some systems it will mean one from inlet and one for outlet especially those who are sucking from their overhead tanks and then treating through.

I am still not convinced at all by the sales people that this will drastically change the water quality. I am Cat on the Wall for sometime more.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Our water hardness is in the 7-8 oD (German hardness degrees). Which isn’t too bad really. But within a few years of use we noticed limestone stains everywhere that were becoming increasingly more difficult to remove.
...
It was not cheap, Euro 2000 (INR 160000). For that they deliver and install the unit and start it up and I got three bags of salt.

This unit has a bypass filter which is really handy when watering our garden. The unit delivers water at about 1.6-1.8 oD.

Seems like a good buy, for what it does. I wonder if it will work with Indian hardness levels, often 50+ °D. Price is honestly worth it. Does it come with its own pump to pressurize, or is it completely passive? Also, can you share the name / link to check if it's available globally.