[vsrivatsa]

I have a close relative of mine who has to make a choice in terms of the professional course between a 4 year Engineering degree vs a 5 Year BS-MS Dual Degree Programme at IISER

Would request the members on this forum to share their wise thoughts on this topic in terms of pros and cons of these two options.

While the choices available to the individual are specific - would love to hear more broadly in terms of an Engineering Degree vs the IISER Dual Degree.

The choices to be specific are between the following two and the decision needs to be made soon as she has got a seat at both these places and needs to pick now:
Option 1: 4 Yr BE in Electronics in BMS College of Engineering Bangalore (Link)
Option 2: 5 Year BS-MS Dual Degree at IISER Tirupati (Link)

I did find a thread on Studying abroad vs India but could not locate any that throws more light on the choices available within the country.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

The choices to be specific are between the following two and the decision needs to be made soon as she has got a seat at both these places and needs to pick now:
Option 1: 4 Yr BE in Electronics in BMS College of Engineering Bangalore (Link)
Option 2: 5 Year BS-MS Dual Degree at IISER Tirupati (Link)

I did find a thread on Studying abroad vs India but could not locate any that throws more light on the choices available within the country.

I was sure many folks at some point in time would fall into this conundrum. Its been a long time since I have seen a strong science education pick up in India. IISc itself just started with their new campus at Challakere in the last few years for the 4 year BS program. Its a long way to go.

But in parallel came the IISER initiative by GOI. I am sure its a great option for young kids to take it.

But the only catch in India seems to be: How will folks progress beyond if they take up non-Maths/non-Physics streams. Other than research the professional options seem tight.

But for Maths/Physics IISER seems like a strong coarse of action. In other words look at this way: If all you want is to take basic logic/maths skills forward from Engg. then I think IISER is a way stronger approach. From a theoretical maths/CS point of view it may give way stronger foundations than a regular engineering course.

But if some one is looking into more pure engineering centric option (EE/Mech/Chem etc) it has to be an engg course. No choice there.


Coming to your specific question on BMS vs IISER Tirupati:

BMS seems like a safe option. But if the candidate is strong in Maths and wants to look into Algorithms/Theoretical CS future: IISER may be the way to go.

[VW2010]

Depends on what the student wants to do. I am not in favor of research in India with poor support from the Industry. 90% of engineers and dual degree holders are currently in some IT company coding in Java or Python. If post-bachelors the intention is to work, take an affordable engineering degree in computer science, add 2 languages, invest in programming skills like Python and expertise in Web development, and actively work with some NGO to create a profile at the end of 4/5 years.

If the intention is to do higher studies in core subjects, start planning for studies outside India. Lastly, if management is a strong suit, prepare for GMAT or CAT and work forward.

As a parent even I want my son to become a doctor, trained as a fighter jet pilot while also excelling in X-Games. In the end, I will sit with the student and understand a little more as their friends influence more in this area than the parents.

The aim is to create a diverse profile beyond subjects at the end of the bachelor's degree.

[condor]

So the same question that @vsrivatsa asked, was thrown at me yesterday. My niece wants to prepare for this, and I was asked if there are any alternatives. The girl is now moving to +2, and has 2 more years before she can try for this - hence, this is more like a initial preparation stage.

I checked the IISER website, and could not make out much. They seem to have only the two courses - BS and BS-MS.

1. What can one do after completing either of these courses.
2. Are there any other institutions offering similar courses ?

[srini1785]

I would go for IISER education any day. You get the best of both worlds. After 5 years you get a MS degree which is more research oriented. An engineering graduate is a dime a dozen now a days and most of these graduates, at least the ones that I saw, lack even the fundamental grasp of respective main branch. Not that IISER would make a student a genius. It just a general comment.

90% of the graduates who come of out an engineering college just want the highest paying job. Branches like Chemical engineering or Civil engineering don't seem to evoke the kind of mass response that computer science or AI evokes, unfortunately . Most of these graduates too end up in IT. What we need are metallurgists, naval architects and sonar designers. I don't remember the last time any graduate student went abroad to study Metallurgy or is it that none of the foreign universities offer this course to non-natives?

[NPV]

I think when you bring in the employability/Career options in India angle to the Engineering Vs IISER/IISc question, it can help answer the question on a personal level for each candidate.
Pure sciences and Research aren’t yet there in India in terms of number of jobs, whereas it is huge for Engineering. Though, I would add that most students these days seem to think that the software/IT industry is where they want to work eventually regardless of what engineering branch they study, which is quite sad, but seems pragmatic at least at the moment. It also means that an average engineering graduate may be able to find a job easier in India than someone with a pure sciences degree, who need to really excel in what they study and probably even need to look at overseas study and work opportunities.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by srini1785

An engineering graduate is a dime a dozen now a days and most of these graduates, at least the ones that I saw, lack even the fundamental grasp of respective main branch.

I was rudely reminded of this recently when I interviewed couple of CSE and ISE branch freshers. An Indian engineering degree is like the high school certificate 40 years ago. Most graduates don't know anything more than what you can expect from a high school graduate. They don't know anything about the 50+ subjects studied in 4 years of BE. Even the most basic stuff like standard deviation. Yes, they have heard of it, like they have heard of Trump, but nothing beyond that.

Originally Posted by srini1785

90% of the graduates who come of out an engineering college just want the highest paying job.

They picked CSE/ISE branches because of the high salary, most have no interest in the subject. Many usually end up joining call center or phone sales job since their skills can't match a role beyond than that.

IISER will at least differentiate a person from the mob, and give him/her better skills. Proactive companies have started looking beyond engineering degrees. My last two hires were 3-year degree holders, who were definitely better than most engineering applicants. And they are doing the same job I would have given to engineers.

[PreludeSH]

I know people dont seem to say 100% of engineering graduates are not employable. There are many new autonomous colleges/universities which are trying to have their own syllabus tailored to meet new technologies. There are ample opportunities for internships from first year and they also incubate/invest in companies founded by students.

I hope this picks up. Govt is also encouraging such independent institutes and only fly in the ointment is the fees and ordinary people not having access to these. In today's world where online access to knowledge is unlimited, proper guidance is all one needs. This wasn't the case when I studied 30 years ago.

[condor]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

In today's world where online access to knowledge is unlimited, proper guidance is all one needs.

Unlimited, may be. But proper is rare. Not just with knowledge and guidance, but with most stuff available on the web.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by srini1785

90% of the graduates who come of out an engineering college just want the highest paying job. Branches like Chemical engineering or Civil engineering don't seem to evoke the kind of mass response that computer science or AI evokes, unfortunately. Most of these graduates too end up in IT. What we need are metallurgists, naval architects and sonar designers. I don't remember the last time any graduate student went abroad to study Metallurgy or is it that none of the foreign universities offer this course to non-natives?

1) if IT is the higher paying vs "core engineering" sector, then I would advise the young person to get motivated for IT sector, unless he has some special penchant for a particular subject (which is unlikely, otherwise that person will not ask such questions)

2) you must understand that you may need metallurgists and naval architects, but sadly the market for such profiles in India continues to languish (in other words India doesn't need as many, or perhaps needs at far lower pay), which is ultimately reflected in the pay packages and career growth possibilities

3) R&D in India also continues to languish, and a person getting into such stream must accept the reality that he/she may end up being an academician primarly (which is not a bad career though).

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Samurai

An Indian engineering degree is like the high school certificate...
...

My last two hires were 3-year degree holders, who were definitely better than most engineering applicants. And they are doing the same job I would have given to engineers.

Both these were valid statements even when I did my engineering 25 years ago! And from what is supposed to be a pretty good engineering college.

We too had some Diploma holders who were a part of our engineering batches and those guys were leagues ahead when it came to the actual engineering subjects, especially the practical applications. I used to wonder why they needed to do an additional degree, used to ask them.

And the same reason holds today as it did back then- because at the initial screening/resume filtering stage, you need that degree next to your name to even be considered for the next stage, that's it. However worthless the degree actually is when it comes to practical knowledge.

Hiring is broken in most companies, it would be great if there are actually some companies that recognize this and take it to the next level, look beyond degrees.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by alpha1

you

I will let you decide based on the following facts.

1. India is unable to develop an ecosystem for semiconductor manufacturing. This requires people who have skills in material tech.

2. India still lacks stealth tech. This requires knowledge of material sciences.

3. India still does not have an ecosystem for nano tech. This also requires people with material know how.

4. Most LED tech that we see today, TV, Phones etc are based outside of India. It was an metallurgical engineer from Japan who made this breakthrough possible with the invention of the blue LED.

Even if GOI wants to invest, we need the proper people for the job. We may have the factories but not the tech. I'm not from IT industry but this word "Factories", still applies. We may have scores of "engineers" laboring for hours using tech which is not developed here.

I can go on and on.

It's not "I" that I used. I said "we". And i think we are digressing.