[govindremesh]

Hi All,

As a former telecom engineer, I'm curious to know your views on the topic. We are all aware of the mess Vodafone-Idea (Vi) is in right now with Kumar Mangalam Birla having resigned from the board, sending alarm signals. An earlier thread on T-Bhp has the history documented. (Road ahead for Vodafone-Idea? Posted the highest loss in Indian history of Rs 50,992 crore)

With a debt of 1.8 lakh crore INR, and no investments on the horizon, the company is on the verge of collapsing. Being a private entity, the chance of monetary/policy help from the government is highly debatable.

It's safe to say, the future of Vi is not bright. However, the collapse of Vi will impact both Vi subscribers and non-subscribers in the following ways

1. If you are an existing Vi customer

Vi collapsing would mean you'll have to port out to Airtel/Jio/BSNL-MTNL. Porting out usually means you'll lose any cash balance (on pre-paid connections) and would need you to change you SIM. While the process itself is not that cumbersome, if you're in an area where Vi's coverage was better than the rest, you'll have to settle for a poor network.
Further if you are someone who maintains an Indian connection while living abroad (like I do), chances are that the investments you made to keep your SIM alive for the convenience of using a phone when you land back in India will probably disappear, not to mention that you won't have an Indian connection to call anyone/use data for calling taxis etc. when you land back in the country.

(Telecom experts, please comment on my assumptions above, since I think it is technically possible to migrate HLR/VLR to another network, enabling the existing subscriber to retain their existing SIM while using another network).

1. If you are NOT an existing Vi customer

It's still bad news for you. Vi collapsing would mean that the Indian telecom market would essentially be a duopoly between Jio and Airtel (BSNL-MTNL have insignificant market share and are struggling anyway) . If they collude on prices (which they will, since Airtel has already hinted at hiking tariffs), it could result in tariffs climbing significantly. Further, less choices for the consumer mean that the suppliers have more leverage- in telecom that translates to worse customer service (it's already bad), poor network, lower data speeds and what not.

Further, should Vi Collapse, the consumers have to be absorbed by these 3 networks which will put additional load on their networks, which would result in drop in quality of service to existing customers. The tower infrastructures companies would aim to downsize their operations and save their operating costs, while the existing players will not be able to scale up overnight before clearing technical and regulatory approvals.

For 2G only customers (Vi has 150 million such customers as per this article , typically daily wage earners, would either need to invest more for a 4G set or choose between Airtel and BSNL. This would lead to a monopoly situation in 2G space, putting the low income groups at high risk of being disconnected.

[govindremesh]

Road Ahead (personal view)

Inspecting the debt of Vi reveals that over 80% of the debt is owed to the Government of India (GoI). Given that the GoI was on the lookout to privatize BSNL-MTNL, my personal view is that GoI should moot for merger of Vi with BSNL-MTNL and create a new telecom entity, which should be run by a capable management. In this way, BSNL-MTNL can use the technology and spectrum available with Vi and for Vi it opens up customer base in rural India where BSNL is perceived to be better.

The proposal above is wishful thinking, but it's probably the only way to prevent a monopoly/duopoly situation in the Indian telecom sector. It's just not me who thinks this though, as I googled my thoughts and found this article by business standard

5G introduction is on the cards, and if my assumption of Vi using Ericsson equipment is true, then they could work with Ericsson to use their Dynamic Spectrum Sharing Technology as they have done in Europe to repurpose 3G/4G spectrum to serve 5G customers. In this way, they can target higher revenue from 5G customers without having to buy costly 5G spectrum.

Epilogue

Having been a Vodafone customer since 13 years, having seen the good and bad of the network, it makes me sad to see them in their current state. Back in late 2000s, Vodafone had the best network (I'm speaking for Mumbai), but their services were expensive. During my engineering days, we would tell anyone who asked us for network advice- If you can afford it, take Vodafone.

I've been a strong advocate for Vodafone, since I have been told (and experienced during my short stint in the telecom industry) that they are the among the few operators that avoid Chinese vendors for their core network equipment. Having worked with Chinese telecom switches during my tenure as a telecom engineer at Tata-Docomo, and well aware of the risks such equipments pose to our data privacy, I chose to stick on to Vi network despite their declining Quality.

Nonetheless, at the place where my parents are settled, Vi still provides a faster data network than Jio/Airtel (Signal strength for all operators are bad). Given the way things are going with Vi, I am wondering if I should already port out to another network (definitely to Airtel since I'm anti-Jio due to their business ethics ) while I am on my short holiday in India. hence I'm curious to know what other Vi-Bhpians think

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[Shreyans_Jain]

My parents are VI customers and I am sick of the caller tunes they play asking you to pay up the second your bill comes in. Not to mention their usual deluge of messages. Their app is juvenile at best. And the overall call and internet quality is pretty sad. That’s here in NCR.

[AMG Power]

If you would like to summarize what’s happening all over India the Jio / Vi story is one of the better examples.

Just like Jio hasn’t been able to take on Amazon successfully, it isn’t going to be easy with Vodafone either.

Vodafone Global’s operating profit for 2021 was over Rs.50,000 Crores last year. So all is not lost for Vi as the Group has access to resources. However, it would be up to the global Board to decide if and to what extent they need to provide financial support to Vi.

Given that whatever has happened has been done with the intention get Vi to up and leave so that Jio has a free run, it would look as if VI they walked right into the trap if they quit now.

The fact that India is a market that has substantial potential, if allowed to operate on a free market basis without the crony capitalism of one player, may also help the global Board to decide to help Vi as it has the resources to do so.

Whatever happens, it’s in everyone’s interest that Vi doesn’t exit India.

[vinu_h]

VI is my primary SIM and have no complaints. Yes, Jio's 4G is way better than VI or Airtel, but, I just trust VI a lot more than the rest. Their customer care line or stores are very well organised. There's a Q system, it just works and I like that. They follow procedure and really make sure before issuing a SIM replacement. All my bank accounts are tagged to a VI number and that allows me to sleep easy at night.

[vinjosep]

A long term pre-paid 2G customer here (15 years and counting).

Incidentally, its only Vi that has coverage within our flat. We have Airtel (both corporate & personal connections) & BSNL too, though the behaviour of both is akin to flight mode within the apartment.

I'm taking a wait & watch approach. The Vi+BSNL entity is something I too wish comes to fruition. My experience with the local BSNL support in Bangalore has been stellar so far (I frequent the centre behind IIM-B).

With LEO (low earth orbit) coming in & supposedly complement 5G, further disruption is still on the cards. Hence the wait & watch.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Nonetheless, at the place where my parents are settled, Vi still provides a faster data network than Jio/Airtel (Signal strength for all operators are bad). Given the way things are going with Vi, I am wondering if I should already port out to another network (definitely to Airtel since I'm anti-Jio due to their business ethics ) while I am on my short holiday in India. hence I'm curious to know what other Vi-Bhpians think

Couple of questions - From a pure customer point of view, do you have anything to lose if you stick to VI? If they are providing better network coverage in your region, then why downgrade to another operator.

Over the last one year, my parents have migrated to Airtel from VI but that is primarily because their network sucks in Delhi NCR. It was impossible to have a clear phone conversation with them unless they were at home and were using Whatsapp calls on WiFi.

I would just say go with the operator that provides the best coverage in your most frequented regions. You will be anyways forced to port if the company collapses in India. But till then, would not recommend taking a decision based on their financial health or speculated future. My vote goes for the operator which is able to provide bang for buck to you as a consumer.

[AltoLXI]

As a Spice/Idea/VI customer from the past 22 years, I would not hesitate to port to other providers. In fact, I have been pre paid customer all throughout - never had a post paid connection. Except Whatsapp, I do not have any other social media accounts and so need of connectivity for me is minimal.

My wife has a Jio / Airtel connection - both prepaid, and we use them for making calls. We have BSNL broadband in house for connectivity.

When last month Airtel stopped outgoing SMSes and wanted customers to pay 129 as minimum recharge value to avail SMS facility, we decided to port Airtel to BSNL and retain the old number. That will happen this week.

As a customer, I would care less if VI collapses and there is a duopoly in market - that is by design and we mortals cannot stop it from happening. I would rather reduce my dependency on telecom but not succumb to the arm twisting tactics by corporates.

As far as security and data privacy are concerned - I believe they are overrated and non existent. Would rather trust pigeons but not the 0s and 1s across the wire or air.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by vinu_h

VI is my primary SIM and have no complaints.

Originally Posted by vinjosep

A long term pre-paid 2G customer here (15 years and counting).

Incidentally, its only Vi that has coverage within our flat.

Originally Posted by warrioraks

Couple of questions - From a pure customer point of view, do you have anything to lose if you stick to VI? If they are providing better network coverage in your region, then why downgrade to another operator.

Limited experience of working in this sector (telecom infrastructure), but the above is key to having a continued good network - active subscribers in that region. The way the telecom infra works (or used to work when I was in that industry a decade ago) is that every area is covered by a list of telecom ground and roof top towers. Majority of these are on rented premises with heavy infra (rent & maintenance) costs. While I'm over-simplifying the business here, but the decision to retain/continue with a set of towers and upgrade it to manage the load/gaps is a function of how many active customers are in that area as well as the importance of that area. And this is a running engine day-in day-out, not something that can be stopped and rolled-back on after a few months of non-operations.

So if you have good / decent network around your place, continue retaining that number and operator. Even if at the organization level there are massive changes (e.g. ownership change). Chances are high that the network in your area will continue to be as it is currently even in the worst case scenarios, as long as there is a good % of active revenue generating customers in that area.

E.g. Back in 2010, we always used to refer to the case of BPL Mobile (later renamed as Loop) which was historically run by Khaitan. They had a extremely strong network of loyal postpaid users in Mumbai and that was a reason that BPL Mobile network was quite good across Mumbai (or core areas of it), although it is literally very less known across the country. There are so many pockets like these across the country in every city/town/region/etc where a particular operator is extremely well known for its coverage and the firm tries to retain that in those specific sections.


However if you are in an area where the VI network is bad, move out. The company surely won't be investing in infrastructure upgrades on priority in those areas given the current situation of the company.

[GTO]

Definitely port! I have been a Vodafone customer for many years, but was fed up with their poor network. Dropped calls, inability to make calls at times and the worst was business contacts telling me my phone was unreachable when I was in a good network area.

Moved to Jio and couldn't have been happier. Its an A+ network. Plus, the entire porting process was done at my doorstep. Jio came and did everything here, the full process was completed in 4 - 5 days.

[govindremesh]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

Couple of questions - From a pure customer point of view, do you have anything to lose if you stick to VI? If they are providing better network coverage in your region, then why downgrade to another operator.

Yes, three points come to my mind:

1. The data network while fast, is unreliable. My phone tends to switch to 2G very often hence dropping the connection in between.

2. Unauthorised deductions. I had to fight for over 3 weeks to get back my ₹600 which they had deducted as VAS when my SIM was out of use for more than 3 months. Escalation to Nodal officer is what finally solved the problem. But they deducted some money again and now I cannot spend more time chasing them.

3. Customer service is next to non existent. If you get to a service personnel, they recite off a script, hardly interested in solving your problem.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Yes, three points come to my mind:

1. The data network while fast, is unreliable. My phone tends to switch to 2G very often hence dropping the connection in between.

2. Unauthorised deductions. I had to fight for over 3 weeks to get back my ₹600 which they had deducted as VAS when my SIM was out of use for more than 3 months. Escalation to Nodal officer is what finally solved the problem. But they deducted some money again and now I cannot spend more time chasing them.

3. Customer service is next to non existent. If you get to a service personnel, they recite off a script, hardly interested in solving your problem.

In my opinion, the first point should be the deciding factor here.
All operators are equally unpredictable when it comes to customer service.

[ontheroad]

As an employee who worked for VI for about 20 years, I would suggest to port out if you have any network issue in your area. The capability of management after the merger is questionable and things are getting worse day after day. The senior guys doesn't have any idea on things happening in field/customer level and just keep pushing employees for redundant KPIs. Happy that I left the organization couple of months back.

[myavu]

I'm a super happy Vi Postpaid customer for last 6 years (ported from MTNL then) and not going to port out until and unless Vi does not exist anymore.