[vvijay]

Hi guys and gurus to the forum out there -

I am newbie to derivatives trading, although I have been investing stocks for a good number of years. While I have understood and learnt through the strategies for intra-day and positional trades, if I had to execute the order through a basket in Kite, there are several occasions where one or two of the trades get stuck up as open orders and the remaining executed orders tend to bleed (there is no point if the spread isn't executed as a whole). Is this a problem only with Zerodha? I have started looking at other alternative brokers (such as Firstock who offer desktop trading terminal), however I am not sure if this is really a broker issue? How do we go about in such situations if let's say for example I take positional trade in Nifty with Iron condor as a strategy?

Cheers,
Vijay

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by vvijay

if I had to execute the order through a basket in Kite, there are several occasions where one or two of the trades get stuck up as open orders and the remaining executed orders tend to bleed (there is no point if the spread isn't executed as a whole). How do we go about in such situations if let's say for example I take positional trade in Nifty with Iron condor as a strategy?

I don't use basket order at all.

- Enter the 4 strikes of an ironcondor in the watchlist
- Wait for the index to 'settle'. Don't enter a trade when index is trending
- Enter a trade only after 9:20AM. Usually the first 5 minutes is quite volatile.
- Sell nearer call first, buy farther call next. Use market order.
- Sell nearer put first, buy farther put next. Use market order.

Since the strikes are already in the watchlist, it hardly takes 2 seconds to execute the above trade.

Personally, I use www.sensibull.com to execute trades on Zerodha. You can select strikes from option chain, see the payoff chart, look at max profit/loss, breakeven, probability of profit etc

[deetee]

During yesterday session, the support from bottom of the upward channel played out strongly and so was the resistance from downward trend line. Index got sandwiched between both. As today opening is likely to be above this downward trend line, I am expecting it to hold above it and rise probably upto the 17860-880 level. What happens there may influence further course of the index. If lot of resistance appears there, it may again fall below the downward trend line (maynot be in same session) and eventually break the upward channel. On otherhand, if 17900 level is broken and sustained, there may be new high in the making. We may also see a rally then. Interesting and volatile setup this is.
God save the trading minds

[thirugata]

There has been 3 attempts to breakout of the top trendline and has failed.
Now the lower trendline & 50 DMA becomes critical i.e 17400 - 17250 range.
A breach of this range signals the reversal of the trend that started in June.
A strong bounce from this range and breakout of the top trendline should help Nifty move towards ATH.

[deetee]

Today's session has been a see saw of sorts. Is this last stand of the Bulls? Maybe. I expected a close below 17500, but it appears there may be some action still left. If tomorrow closes below 17400, Bears got a grip then.

[Ferrari1976]

Hello,
disclosure: I am a SEBI registered research analyst.

But, I am quite a novice when it comes to technical analysis. My advisory is based on quantitative analysis. Can the experts in TA tell me how do they define momentum? more importantly how do they use it in their trades.

Thank you.

[deetee]

Originally Posted by Ferrari1976

Hello,
disclosure: I am a SEBI registered research analyst.

But, I am quite a novice when it comes to technical analysis. My advisory is based on quantitative analysis. Can the experts in TA tell me how do they define momentum? more importantly how do they use it in their trades.

Thank you.

I don't think there can be any experts in analysis of markets. If so, they would be able to predict the movements with consistent accuracy and make millions of it. Markets can throw a number surprises to void any 'expert' analysis.
Talking about momentum, I don't use too many parameters, but my preferred way of gauging it is by combining with volume and price movement. A 2% move with higher than average volume indicates very good momentum. The same move with low volumes indicate weak momentum - but very next session can have small 1% move with high volumes, which indicates momentum picked up. I go by the context of the market. Rate of change in money flow indicator is another way of gauging it, info is available on web.

[thirugata]

Originally Posted by Ferrari1976

Hello,
disclosure: I am a SEBI registered research analyst.

But, I am quite a novice when it comes to technical analysis. My advisory is based on quantitative analysis. Can the experts in TA tell me how do they define momentum? more importantly how do they use it in their trades.

Thank you.

A novice way of defining momentum is break of previous day high with out breaking previous day low. As long as you see this happening there is momentum. Once this stops either it is consolidation or momentum in opposite direction depending on how the follow up candle has formed.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Ferrari1976

But, I am quite a novice when it comes to technical analysis. My advisory is based on quantitative analysis. Can the experts in TA tell me how do they define momentum? more importantly how do they use it in their trades.

A momentum investor holds stocks that are in a strong uptrend for short/medium/long term, without looking at valuations. Such an investor might (or might not) look at fundamentals. Other aspects they look at are high daily trading volumes, institutional/retail interest in the stock, newsworthy-ness (repeated mention in business media) etc. Such investors make entry and exit based on simple tools like moving averages.

Eg: Asian paints/Titan from the last decade, IRCTC/IEX in 2021 or Adani stocks between 2020 and now

If you want some strategy examples, you could look at a few 'momentum smallcases'
https://www.smallcase.com/discover/a...egies=momentum

[Linuskm]

Hi All, question on technical indicators like macd, RSI, Bollinger bands, EMA 20, 50 . Are these useful and if yes how can we analyse these to make buy sell decisions.

[thirugata]

Originally Posted by Linuskm

Hi All, question on technical indicators like macd, RSI, Bollinger bands, EMA 20, 50 . Are these useful and if yes how can we analyse these to make buy sell decisions.

A difficult question to answer as there is no straight forward answer to this.
A one line answer would be any indicator is useful. But there are multiple ways to use the same indicator, thats where the complication comes in.
Easier way to find an answer is to first understand how an indicator behaves and then plot it on charts and look for patterns that repeats often using this indicator and there you get your answer of how to use it.

I am saying this because a simple RSI can be used in many ways. Some use it with standard setting of 14 period and 30 - 70 range. Some use it with 60 - 40 range, some buy above 60 and sell below 40.
Same case with EMA, it depends on how long you want to hold the stock. If you are buying for long term your choice should be 200 EMA if you choose to enter trade using day candle. But if you are using weekly candles then 50 Weekly moving avg is the choice. These are conventional wisdom, there is no hard and fast rule that it has to be used this way. If you want to use EMAs for cross over trade then it is a different ball game all together.

Best is to identify a pattern when you use an indicator, choose a stop loss and do trial and error with a small quantity so that risk is low. Having a low risk when you try out a method is important. That gives you freedom to make mistakes and learn without mistakes hurting you.

Apologies for long beat around the bush answer, but thats the reality of technical analysis.

[Ferrari1976]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

A momentum investor holds stocks that are in a strong uptrend for short/medium/long term, without looking at valuations.

Attachment 2360754

How would you define "momentum"? What all inputs go in its calculation?

[deetee]

Originally Posted by thirugata

A difficult question to answer as there is no straight forward answer to this.
A one line answer would be any indicator is useful. But there are multiple ways to use the same indicator, thats where the complication comes in.
.
.
Apologies for long beat around the bush answer, but thats the reality of technical analysis.

+1 well said!

The different parameters in technical analysis give a signal only with a certain probability. No individual signal can tell you to buy/sell. They each are just a parameter to gauge the market from a certain perspective, nothing more. It is upto the trader to interpret multiple signals and arrive at a buy/sell/hold decision. This is where many jump ahead of the signals and make favorable conclusions according to them and then think technical analysis is all b**lsh*t. Technicals don't lie, it is our interpretation of them that needs to be as objective as possible (and with risk management embedded with every decision).

For eg: Popular opinion is that if RSI crosses 70, its overbought market and if it falls below 30 its oversold market. Does the formula of RSI or definition of RSI itself say that - nope. It's the popular( read 'expert' ) interpretation of RSI that attributes oversold and overbought states. The market doesn't bother with RSI, it is we who are trying to gauge market with RSI. So, even if RSI is 80, market can still go up. Or even if it is 20 it can still crash. So, how to use this indicator then. That's were objectivity comes. When RSI crosses 70, understand that market is in an overbought state. It doesn't mean that you have to sell now. Don't attach any more weight to that. Don't come to buy/ sell decision just because RSI is at 70. Only infer so much as what the signal says and then use a few other parameters to arrive at a decision.

Bottom line is, technical parameters only give out info about their state. That information is always correct. It is the trader who has to use his experience to arrive at buy/sell decision based on that information. If even after using multiple parameters, a decision can't be made, its best to walk away from that trade rather than forcing a buy/sell decision when things are not clear.

[deetee]

Usually after a long day of selling, markets opens a little higher next session. But given the international market selling spree, a gap down open on Monday seems to be on cards. But, I think, DJI may recover towards end of trading today and on Monday, Nifty may open at more or less same level as today's close. Today, couple of strong supports have been broken, so in any case, Monday may either be a selling day or consolidation for bears.

[deetee]

I was able to construct this downtrending channel over the last few weeks of Nifty candles.



My observation, as per the chart, is that 29th expiry can be between 16700 and 16900. On 30th NIFTY may touch 16600, after that there can be a bounce.
Opinions and discussion are welcome!