[GTO]

I have 3 siblings and all 4 of us have studied in the USA. My folks valued education very highly and I am extremely grateful to them for that.

IMHO, studying in India has its pros, and the same goes for an international education. End of the day, your education will be what you make of it. You could waste a Harvard or IIM-A degree, and you could make the most of it from a B-grade engineering school. It's all up to you.

Speaking for myself, those 2.xx years in the USA greatly shaped & influenced me. Further, I can go ahead and say that Team-BHP.com wouldn't have existed, if it weren't for my Boston & California days. In the early 2000s, car forums were all the rage & I was a regular on them. Always wondered why there was no A+ car forum in India and started Team-BHP within months of my return. The philosophy of not taking any $$$ from car companies has also been influenced by Consumer Reports USA which follows a similar model (but not identical).

What about my kids? I'll say it doesn't have to be India vs Abroad. Why can't it be both? I'd love for all my kids to complete their graduation here + get a Masters abroad. That way, they've gotten the best of both worlds.

Living abroad, by yourself, gives you an unbelievable kind of exposure.

[Route66]

I have had experience from two sides. I did my Master's from US (came back to India later) and last year I consulted for a family member's Education Consulting firm which help students with application and admission procedures.

I have seen that students are eager to go abroad for Bachelor's whereas parents are more comfortable sending kids for Master degree.

My personal opinion is that students should complete Bachelor's in India and also get 2-3 years experience here before thinking about going abroad. There are multiple reasons for that:

1. Money $$ - A 3/4 years Bachelor is very expensive than a 1/2 years Master Degree. Additionally, there are more chances of getting a scholarship for a Master Degree because you have some education and experience in the field you want to do Master's in. After 12th, most of the Indian students only have scores (12th, SAT etc) to submit due to our education system. But for a Master's degree, they have projects/research they can show from education and work.

2. Maturity - A student going for Bachelor's is still a kid. He/she would be more inclined to wards spending more/taking bad decisions because they don't have real world experience yet. All those who have been to western countries know that it is very easy for someone to get hooked up on drinks/drugs/strip clubs/gambling. Whereas a student who has done his Bachelor's (probably from a town other than hometown) and have worked in a company, would be able to make better decisions. They also tend to gel in better with others.

3. Course/Direction - A student going for a Master's Degree will have a clear field of study they want to enter. They want to make a carrier out of it and would take it seriously. Whereas a Bachelor's degree is something that is considered as a requirement for everyone on our society, so kids don't tend to take it seriously. I have seen a lot of cases where parents would be deciding the course for kids as kids just want to go to a foreign country.

4. Adaptability - Mostly kids in India are cocooned by parents. Dependent on parents, hardly doing any household chores, no part-time work for pocket money. This is true for almost everyone till class 12th. But a lot of kids move to different cities for study and work where they experience living on their own. So its a big shock for students going abroad for Bachelor's and i have seen a lot of student struggling for initial few months. Some to the point where they want to come back or in some rare cases i have seen parents fly their to calm them down and help them settle. Going for Master's is far better in terms of adaptability.

As some of the members have already mentioned, if you plan to come back to India after studies - Don't Go. Doesn't matter Bachelor's or Master's, don't go if you want to come back. Foreign education is not valued as highly as you would expect in India and you will not find a job matching your expectations. Exception being, getting a foreign MBA degree with a couple of years experience and coming back to India to join family business to expand it.

Thank You

[Turbolove]

Originally Posted by Sree

Today's children especially boys don't have the mental strength or emotional maturity to go,stay and study bachelor's courses in a foreign country far from home. Too high risk IMHO.
On the other side, there's no point in doing masters and PhD in India, given the vast difference in standards.

You could look at it in an entirely different way, perhaps those few children who lack the mental strength or emotional maturity can gain it by going abroad and learning by doing. In India they will most likely be further deep into their comfort zone as being abroad away from family and having to figure everything out yourself.

This is quite an open ended question and besides the regular factors like. money, and what the child and family want, it depends very heavily on the kind of person the child is. What is the child's mental fortitude, are the parents willing to send the kid away to a foreign land, does the child want to genuinely gain knowledge or are they more interested in just getting a degree and already have a business to join.

College is the time people discover who they are and what they want to do in life, they should be able to interact with alot of different people from different fields to get a good understanding of those industries, they should be able to explore all field.
That being said, a kid who is good at learning and has mental fortitude can be successful pretty much anywhere.

On my own personal experience, having studied in indian, american and dutch universities, I would any pick abroad. The teachers there genuinely wanted to make sure that I understood the concept, I have not finished assignment and yet passed the course because I could demonstrate that I understood the concepts well enough. The learning there was based far more on whats going on in the real world industry right now, whereas in india, even in a premier institute like BITS, in comparison we were taught older techniques and focused more towards just getting the formula right and passing the exam.

Most importantly, universities abroad focus alot on extra curriculars (this is now very slowly changing in India though). If you want to build a car then you don't just study automotive/mechanical engineering or some degree, you join a team and actually build a car and compete at a global level. There is absolutely no substitute for that kind of hands on learning. The universities there happily fund these kind of activities and provide all possible resources.

[landcruiser123]

I've completed my MS in the US and will suggest only 1 thing: If the family is wealthy enough and the kid is inclined to study, they should try to send the kid abroad for undergraduate studies.

Selecting a good university abroad is key to success. Good universities open many opportunities beyond coursework which leads to overall development of the person. Also, I don't think many Indian universities can compete on the research opportunities in the good universities abroad. If a child is really interested, I'd suggest this path: Bachelors -> Followed by a year or two Research Work -> PhD.

Originally Posted by Route66

I have seen that students are eager to go abroad for Bachelor's whereas parents are more comfortable sending kids for Master degree.

I guess this comes down to affordability. I see this trend among friends of my dad.

that it is very easy for someone to get hooked up on drinks/drugs/strip clubs/gambling.

I'm sorry, I disagree with such a blanket statement. This is down to how the individual kid was raised. International students are in extremely competitive environments and don't have time for such activities.

As some of the members have already mentioned, if you plan to come back to India after studies - Don't Go. Doesn't matter Bachelor's or Master's, don't go if you want to come back.

Interesting. Would you care to enlighten me? (Please feel free to PM me if required)

[AirbusCapt]

The truth of the matter is, Indian kids are a pampered lot. Not many from USA or the UK get full parent sponsored tution fees for their graduation or undergrad studies. Most work jobs for a while or take expensive loans to study. We are the only nation where the parent saves up or takes a big loan for his kid's foreign outing. The problem is such that kids right out of nursery are honed more into knowing what happens in California rather than knowing that a Coimabatore exists. If one hears typical teen talk in most of the well to do gated communities, you may pick up a US accented kid drawling how his/her parent/s have set them up for life, and how their next steps are planned in so and so college in so and so country. I am sure the parents are doing what they feel is the best opportunity for their child, but such sheltered privilege only make for an entitled adult.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Route66

All those who have been to western countries know that it is very easy for someone to get hooked up on drinks/drugs/strip clubs/gambling.

And it's virtually impossible for youngsters to get 'hooked up on drinks/drugs/dance bars/gambling' in our country? That is good to know. I went to a good college in a small town here, saw quite a few batch mates addicted to drugs and dependent on alcohol. On the other hand, saw more than a few of my friends from school who went to the US for their bachelor's degree really realize their full academic and professional potential through the education system there. So, not sure such a blanket statement helps.

[Aniket03]

Hello fellow Forum members.

As a recent graduate, I would like to give my two cents on this matter as well. Around 60% of my friends from school went abroad for their undergraduate studies and now unfortunately most of them are coming back to unavailability of jobs or issues with their visas. Does this mean, it was a wasted expenditure ? I think not.

In India, especially for non-technical courses, such as history, psychology or economics etc. there is a serious dearth of quality institutions for students to go to. Apart from this, I feel that a good undergraduate educations lays down the foundation of our lives, more than what is being taught in class, I feel overall development and developing a network is extremely important. This is something that most of my friends who went abroad have been able to do successfully.

For people who can do this in India, get through competitive exams and enroll in premier institutions, there is nothing like it. But for people, who end up in a 2nd tier college in India, maybe going abroad is a better option. But I feel that the decision to study abroad vs India is an extremely personal one, keeping finances and parent's outlook in mind. There is no one size fits all solution IMO.

[Amrik Singh]

Though there are hate mongers among the lot abroad and this is reported largely. But how about those instances where the locals show interest in your culture and you in person ? No, that goes unreported.
I was in a queue to check out and saw a white lady observing me. She wished me and requested to ask a question. On my nod, she pointed at my Gold 'Kada', Steel bracelet (bangle) worn by Sikhs and asked me if it should have been Steel ? My God !! She knew quite well about us. I had to admit that she was right and it is the little prosperity that has made some of us go off the course.

[ampere]

Lets tackle choices later. I would rather direct this discussion to a different thought process.

Lets face it, we have a serious lack of institutes imparting quality education both at under-graduate and post-graduate levels. Only a chosen few who come clean through stiff competition make it to these elite institutes. So now the question comes up: What about the rest of the population, which would like to experience a good education, but cannot; simply because they could not qualify?

So if this population can afford it, why not look for institutes in other countries which can provide such education? More importantly, an institute to which this rest of the population can be admitted to study. At least I do maintain a thought, that people at some point in their life, need to experience an institute, which makes one feel, he/she is a part of something big and important. Especially makes one feel, that his/her work is crucial and is appreciated.

Now if we look at the studying abroad in this context, it would then simply translate to an opportunity to look at quality education.

Another aspect which GTO touched upon is also important. That is with regards to one's own personal growth. I have also maintained this thought that people need to move out of their homes by 17 to get a good exposure to adulthood, especially how one goes about living on his own, co-exist in hostels, live with room-mates, manage finances etc etc. Living and studying in another country takes this to a whole new level.

So that way being away in your own country at first for under-graduate and then taking the next step to go to a another country for post-graduation, makes more sense.

[navin]

Originally Posted by GTO

Living abroad, by yourself, gives you an unbelievable kind of exposure.

Originally Posted by Route66

2. Maturity - A student going for Bachelor's is still a kid.

3. Course/Direction - A student going for a Master's Degree will have a clear field of study they want to enter.

4. Adaptability - Mostly kids in India are cocooned by parents.

Originally Posted by ampere

Let's face it; we have a serious lack of institutes imparting quality education both at under-graduate and post-graduate levels.

The big difference between studying in India and the UK (do not know much about Europe) is the cost. My take is if the family can afford it, they should send the child.

I left for the US (in 1981) at the age of 17-18. I remember landing in NYC at around 4 pm. By 7 pm on the same day, I was in the subway in Brooklyn and got caught in the crossfire of a fight between a Spanish man sitting on my left and a Black man sitting on my right, that is... until the Spanish man took out the biggest knife I had ever seen from his bag. You should have seen the crowd move away from the 3 of us; as if Moses had parted the Red Sea. Trial by fire.

By the time I left NYC, I was more comfortable going to places like East Harlem, Hell's Kitchen, Bedford-Stuyvesant, etc. than my NY bred classmates. I would say I even enjoyed it. Firstly I got to make some "colorful" friends, secondly, my professors would rely on me to visit places like the NY Public Library Annexe, Columbus Library or CUNY Library in Harlem and get them copies of research publications, and lastly, it made my classmates wonder how I came back unharmed.

There is no faster way to learn than to jump into the deep end of the pool.

Kids at 17-18 are mature enough. It is the parent's responsibility to ensure that they are. Our son who is 18 now, has traveled to Spain in 2017 (with 3 friends). We (my wife, myself, and another couple) dropped them to Madrid and left for our own tour (we knew that in case there was trouble we were all in the same country) while they did a completely different route and returned on their own.

The 4 boys managed to feed themselves, take in the sights, and even visit a Hard Rock Cafe along Las Ramblas in Barcelona (I don't know how they got in, and I don't care). For 10 days, they managed laundry, food, and internal travel on their own. We (my wife and me and one other couple) returned 8 days later. For 8 days in Mumbai, they lived in their apartments on their own. Maybe they ate some junk food, maybe they did not shower a day or 2, maybe they did a few naughty things along the way. That's life. Every year since our son has managed his summers on his own.

Many kids at 17-18 are sure about what they study I was sure I wanted to study engineering in my 4th grade. I don't remember wanting to do anything else. My son has been sure about wanting to study Physics / Applied Physics since his 8th grade.

If Indian parents wish to mollycoddle their kids, it is to the detriment of the kid. Nothing teaches you faster than a swift kick in the pants. Let them fall. Let them learn to get up after falling. Support them. Ensure them of your unconditional love. Forgive their mistakes. Encourage their hobbies. Don't judge them or compare them to their peers. The rest they will manage on their own. They need to learn to deal with failure, heartbreak, mistakes, etc. Life is unfair. The earlier they understand this the better.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

It is a noble and Patriotic thought - but impractical. Many have tried, regretted and returned. To work in Indian atmosphere, where nepotism is dominant ? Colleagues dump their own work on to you and there are others to take credit of your hard work.
Most crucial is the atmosphere full of Pollution, polluted Water, erratic Electricity, tense nights for getting children admitted to reputed schools and other factors, mention of which goes against the policies of the forum. The only positive point is a relaxed life as domestic helps are always at hands, though honest ones are a rare breed.

Thats a pretty sweeping statement. As the saying goes, where there is a will there is a way.

I have members in my family who have returned to India after studying and working abroad since 1914 (My great grand father was rich enough to fund my grand fathers undergraduate studies in the US and UK but my father was not able to fund my Masters from California in 2007!) I had a full scholarship in a top European University but I decided not to go because I thought it would be better to work for sometime and then do a MBA.

My father moved back to India after doing his MS from the US in 1996 with the family and me in class 8 with no job because he didn't like western materialistic culture. He taught in a government engineering college for the next 20+ years because he was passionate about teaching. He stuck to a government college because students came thru merit and many were from lower middle class families.

I have numerous cousins who are from IIT, MBAs from the US who came back to India in the early 1990s. My uncle (mama) is planning to move permanently back to India from the US after 60+ years, he did his masters from MIT in the 1960s.

None of them regretted it and none went back.

[srini1785]

I am going to go with general consensus here that sending your child abroad for undergrad or post grad is a financial question. Me personally, would rather prefer only for Post grad and that too after a few years of working experience here. One aspect that is not really mentioned by other members but IMO is the elephant in the room, is that most students who go abroad do so in order to settle there. Yes, there are exceptions but mostly in the minority. In my class of 68 (or so) students during my undergrad years in engineering, only a few are still in india. i must also mention that sending children abroad for under grad was unheard of during that time.

So the question, i suppose , is just if you want to emigrate?.

P.S: There are cases where i have found the knowledge of students who pass out of polytechnic institutes in india to be more than that a post grad from abroad. However that's

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Thats a pretty sweeping statement. As the saying goes, where there is a will there is a way.

But just one simple question.
How would you feel when someone with lower academic score and performance than you gets more benefits just because of caste or political contacts ?
The creamy layer IAS, DM, Senior Officers etc. getting shunted / transferred by ignorant and uneducated Political Bosses ?
The latest trend - If Covid spreads in your City, Transfer the DM. I do not want to go into Political details of this.

We are getting off the thread. The topic of discussion was on sending someone abroad for higher education and not on his / her return which is a personal decision.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

None of them regretted it and none went back.

As GTO mentioned few posts ago, Team-BHP would not have existed if GTO had not gone abroad for higher studies. What he left unsaid was that Team-BHP would not have existed if he hadn't come back to India right after his studies.

[alphadog]

Originally Posted by Samurai

You should measure the concept by looking at people who made it work, and not by people who gave up. I returned in 2004 after spending a decade in USA. Never regretted it.

My experience has been along similar lines. I spent 13 years in the UK and then returned back home, not as a result of being forced out, but as a conscious decision to be closer to parents and in-laws, to give something back to my home country and for an abstract concept of being on home soil. It has been many years since I have been back, I do miss certain 'municipal' things as someone mentioned, like great roads, less crowds, clean side walks and such like, but, never regretted my decision to return, one moment.

Originally Posted by asitkde

but unless we aim bigger, we will leave a poorer India for the next generation. As Narayan already pointed out, for some people, looking after the elderly can be an important and satisfying consideration too. Prioroties can be different for different people. I feel, after one has reached a certain point in one's career, one has to think of the broader picture. We cannot keep on loosing some of our best Human Resources for ever.

I totally agree with you on this thought and I subscribe to and have acted on these thoughts. But then, it is a free world and these decisions are based on comfort, convenience and one's priorities. So I guess we cannot expect most people who are settled abroad to return. Which is fine as well.

I am doctor, an Orthopaedic surgeon. I can speak for my experience and that of my brother, who is from the engineering field. I did my MBBS , after the usual entrance exam, ranking and all that, from a government college in Chennai, wherein the yearly tuition fee was INR 4000. But when it came to the entrance for post-grad courses, I knew the field I wanted, but then as the seats were less and with caste based reservations and what not, it was next to impossible to get into the post-grad field that I wanted, hence decided to go to UK. My parents did not have to spend much on me other than my flight tickets, the selection exam fee and enough pocket money for 1 months stay in the UK. After that I was subsisting on my own, through working and residency training. I then returned after spending 13 years in the UK. I have also worked in Abu Dhabi for a couple of years afterwards.

My brother did his undergrad engineering from a private college in Chennai and then did his masters and PhD from UK universities. He remains there in the UK and is into academics and works at the Imperial college in London. He does not have any plans of returning to India.

So my advice, based on my experience, would be to do undergrad in India, then as per the field, do a post-grad abroad or in India, if a good university is available for that stream and if one can afford it. Better still will be to get a scholarship. No set rules there. The experience of studying and working abroad is very valuable. It truly broadens ones worldview and understanding, and provides a whole host of fantastic experiences.

Having said that, from the pure academics and job prospects point of view, at the end of day, we need to see, how the country and the world will be placed in the next 20-30 years. My personal feeling is that , in all possibility, the jobs will move eastwards to Asia and some African countries, from the west, and the future generations should aim to educate and train to make themselves relevant to the jobs of the future and also the geography wherein these jobs will be in. I have no doubt in my mind that this century is going to be the century of Asian giants. I see no point in taking huge educational loans and spending big amounts of money, just to have the tag of being educated in the west. Maybe this was the case in the 70s, 80s and well the 90s too, but now, it does not make sense to do so. At present atleast the UK and US universities just see Indian students as cash cows, with less possibility of getting jobs and settling once the course is over. So its best not to give them that benefit.

With my kids coming to University stage in few years from now, this is what I have in mind - undergrad in India and post-grad abroad / India, but without spending huge amounts of money.

Cheerio!