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23rd June 2020, 09:19 | #1 | ||||
Senior - BHPian | The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Related thread - R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput Quote:
That said, help is always available and there are ways to identify people who are depressed. Here is a good article on the same from the WHO website. Quote:
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1. AASRA 2. It's Ok to Talk 3. The Live Love Laugh Foundation Last edited by blackwasp : 23rd June 2020 at 09:59. | ||||
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24th June 2020, 08:47 | #2 |
Team-BHP Support | Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Thread moved from the Assembly Line to Shifting Gears. Thanks for sharing! A must to talk about it . @ BHPians: If you would rather post about your experience anonymously, please share it via this page & we'll have it posted. Anonymity guaranteed. Last edited by Rehaan : 22nd July 2020 at 19:49. |
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24th June 2020, 09:43 | #3 |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room This whole concept of "alcoholics anonymous" type of "support groups" and medication is borrowed from the west. It is the family and relationships, stupid! Find me every depressed person and I will show you a failed family/relationship. It's not even career like many people think - the career stuff is often the means through which we want to earn love and admiration of our loved ones. If you are a parent, sibling or child of someone going through depression, let go of your ego/baggage and reach out to that person and let him/her experience unconditional love. I am not against medication but it's big business and you know what that means. Anything that doesn't make money doesn't get promoted these days. Truth is always buried under several layers of profit-driven misinformation. |
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24th June 2020, 09:53 | #4 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room As the lock down pulls on the chances of most of us feeling depressed will be more. Especially those stuck out in a different place away from family; not mention, financial and employment insecurity will compound matters even if one is with family. There are certain days when depression can be compounded: dull grey days and times of continuous rainfall when one can't venture out, during such times some uplifting conversation, reading and viewing streaming content may tide us through. It's better to find inner strength to tide over it; if not seek help; either in the form of counselling and/or medication. We have all been through this at some point of time in our lives. Sedentary lifestyle can lead to lowered self esteem and that can snowball into depression, so keep busy and do household chores and get tired and then sleep. Last edited by Durango Dude : 24th June 2020 at 10:00. |
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24th June 2020, 10:13 | #5 |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room I'm sharing some experiences I've been through between 2014 and now in the hope that this might help some. My roller - coaster phase started when I joined the ITES Industry in a metro after spending over 2 decades in world- scale manufacturing in a Class B city. The Conditions and the Damage : 1. started working 18 hours a day to map both India and US Eastern time zones 2. took over a delivery account where KPIs were either in deep red or trending towards red. 3. got no support whatsoever from people in the company; swim or sink was their mantra. 4. In a couple of months, I began to think I'd made a mistake with the shift but a lot was at stake - I'd made the move to be with my family who, having lived several years in a Class B city were grappling with challenging life in a metro. (We made the move, primarily to give my son the exposure and edge in Class XI and XII to fare well in competitive exams) 5. Long work hours, worries at workplace coupled with the challenges at home and a pretty hostile city started taking its toll on my health. 6. Three years into the job and I decided to take up another opportunity overseas, which, unfortunately, bombed after 3 months. 7. I hadn't gone for a medical check up for 5 years as I thought labs in the new city were hand in glove with docs - silly thought but true. 8. In early 2018, six years after my last medical check up, I discovered that my blood sugar had shot up 3 times. Actions that I took at various stages in these five years : In my first company, we grew up challenging the impossible, challenging convention, and to never give up. These became my guiding principles. 1. In the ITES job, I took the onus of transforming the account using all the skills and experience I had acquired from my earlier job. It took me two years to bring in the transformation but I'd, in the process, gone so aggressive that I'd burnt bridges with some key people in the company. 2. Post the overseas opportunity bombing, I was without much earnings, but that's when my most potent weapon came to my rescue. That weapon is living within one's means. 3. I survived the next 2 years on some of my savings, with no major dip in lifestyle (because we led a fairly simple life). 4.To keep myself engaged, I'd voluntarily taken up flood damage restoration and other maintenance on my friends' cars without ANY mark ups. 5. I went on a no-medicine drive to lower my blood sugar levels Results : 1. Silver lining - our son cracked a very important competitive exam in style and got the admission of his choice - great achievement. 2. Also satisfying was that all the work I did at work and on cars gave me a lot of learning and earned me a lot of goodwill. 3. am happy to report that blood sugar is down to reasonable levels with just diet control and an exercise regime; not yet back to normal but manageable. Key learnings: 1. Never allow depression to get the better if you - engage doing something you like and wear the attitude of a soldier. 2. Live within your means and have a good corpus - you never know what can hit you and when. 3. Live a debt- free life - I surrendered my credit card in 2014 and NEVER applied for one again. 4. Build capabilities that can save you money. eg. I have only acquired pre-owned cars and pick up cars when their value is 25-30% of new - and I have the courage to do this because I've built capability. 5. DO NOT neglect health - monitor your parameters regularly and follow a healthy lifestyle. Last edited by vigsom : 24th June 2020 at 10:17. |
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24th June 2020, 10:19 | #6 |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room It's been years that I cannot keep a track of when everything started. I'm too matured and old school for my age as I faced alot of abuse during my childhood (not at home). It is all of sudden that you realize there is something wrong. Depression is not merely being sad, it is an illness. It is scar that you have to live with for the rest of your life. Depression is not caused by one but by various incidents in life. The moment you recall the incidents there are tears rolling down. There are people who are not willing to listen or accept for who you are. The feeling of being left out in a group is always haunting me. Our toxic society has a sense of expectations from each individual and I'm far from that. Why can't I live my life the way I want? Who are you to decide where I find my happiness? Is the purpose of my existence here to impress you? There was a phase of my eating habits and dangerous practices. All I could say I am still fighting my fears of gaining weight. It's easy for people to give 'gyaans' (advices) but its only you who is eligible to fight yourself. It's a battle on another universe unless you have faced. I never blame myself but the people I'm surrounded by. The healing process takes time as you distance yourself from people who pass insensitive comments and judgements. My life shouldn't matter anyone. Last edited by momsonlydriver : 24th June 2020 at 10:21. |
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24th June 2020, 10:31 | #7 |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Most people misunderstand the very meaning behind the term "DEPRESSION". Having been around a friend who was truly depressed and wanted to exit this planet every waking moment, I got a very close insight into what a person goes through and how it is triggered. If you feel hopeless, sad or depressed for a few days, then it is a mood. If you remain in that state for a month or so, then it is a state of mind. However, when you remain in that state for years, then it can be termed as depression. It might sound a little weird but most of it can always be linked to childhood trauma or abuse (usually the sexual kind). When one goes through abuse during their childhood, their mind gets locked in "SURVIVAL MODE". Technically they're stuck in basic fight and flight mode. Their reaction to normal life events gets skewed. They don't see the world the same way a normal person would. To them everything is either all good or all bad. They see everything in a very black and white way. As an example - Let's say you fail in a job interview. A basic person would feel a little bad, take it in his/her stride and move to the next interview. A depressed person will actually look at this as "REJECTION". Their mind will see this as them not being good enough and their system will slowly slip into survival mode again, pumping the system with a huge mix of stress inducing hormones. As a result, their reactions wouldn't appear standard. Everything will seem like an over-reaction or an over kill. It isn't the job interview that caused this, but it only acted like a trigger to an already pre-existing issue that stems from childhood trauma. To go even deeper into this subject. Here is how trauma manifests itself subconsciously. There was a female who went through sexual abuse during her teens and it happened a few more times at different points in her life. Eventually, she gained a lot of weight and even after several decades struggled to keep it off. She would try many different diets, exercises, but somehow, she would end up either quitting or unconsciously would go back to poor eating habits. She did a few sessions with a psychologist where she later learned that her body saw keeping her fat as a defense mechanism from predators. Her unconscious mind assumed that if she gets too skinny, it might mean that she'll appear attractive to predators and the past might repeat itself. So her body was stuck in survival mode and somehow, wouldn't let her shed that weight. Anytime she would exercise, her mind would pump a bunch of stress inducing hormones forcing her to give up. And whenever she ate, her system pumped feel good hormones that made her eat a lot more than she needed to. This is a very deep subject and requires a whole another level of understanding. Which is why, a standard person can never quite understand the layers upon layers of tangled emotional web that a depressed person goes through. Which is why, this should be treated much differently and can often be even more complicated than treating someone with a physical ailment. Only a trained professional can help. I repeat. Only a trained professional. Never try to fix someone's issues or play doctor. Just lend a helping hand and try your best to get them in touch with a trained professional. Your intent might be to help but you actually might end up making it a lot worse for them. Once again, help them get professional help at the earliest. Last edited by rahul_jo : 24th June 2020 at 10:35. |
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24th June 2020, 11:50 | #8 | |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Quote:
While we do not have enough physicians, the mental health professionals are even harder to come by. Awareness on mental health is poor, even things like excessive drinking etc are treated as bad habits rather than addiction that needs professional treatment. Whenever I see things on social media with people putting out messages like 'I`m here when you need someone to talk to' etc , I find it alarming - untrained people can actually make things a lot worse. Having some family members go through this and having met a professional as a part of it, I realized something. Its not just them who needs help, its also the people around them who needs to know just how to help them, or learn how to be around them. | |
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24th June 2020, 12:27 | #9 |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Since I can't edit my post above. There is something more I'd like to add about how to deal with a suicidal person and how to also cater to your own well being when the other person is absolutely on the edge most of the time. 1- Take everything seriously. Never ever try to make assumptions that a person is just being casual. If they often talk about not wanting to live, take it very very very seriously. A very casual thought can quickly escalate into an action within no time. I've seen a person ingest pills and they used to just casually talk about not wanting to be alive. You never know. Do not trust your own assumptions about anything. 2- It is a cry for help - Trust me on this. When a person tells you that they want to die. They are actually asking for help. Any kind of help. Most of us think that they're being dramatic and just want attention but the reality might be very different. When a person is undergoing immense depression, think of it like they're trying to pull the weight of an entire train all by themselves. Everything just feels like a lot of effort to them and they're completely out of energy. They'll never have enough energy or motivation to find help. 3- Never tell them that it's no big deal and things will be fine - You can't give logical answers to emotional problems. Yet, most of us are guilty of just that whenever we find ourselves in the company of someone who is feeling down. Acknowledge their feelings. Let them vent if there is a need. Let them be open around you. Don't judge anything they're saying or doing and just be willing to listen without offering solutions. Sometimes the person isn't seeking instant solutions, they just want to be acknowledged. 4- Try to figure out the current risk level - Have they already tried to end things in the past? Have they ever made an effort? Are they talking in generalities or specifics? For example, when they talk about killing themselves, are they mentioning specific ways on how they'd do it? Do they have a plan of action? Or do they talk in general terms as in, I don't know I just want to end it. The more specific a person is, the more they've planned it out and might be very close to executing it. Note - Not having a plan doesn't always mean they're not serious. There are exceptions to everything, therefore, nothing actually means that they're not serious. 5- Give them consistent positive reinforcement - Don't offer solutions, just suggest a different direction. With years worth of negative reinforcement, you can't talk a suicidal person out of it in just one conversation. I had a friend tell me that I might have saved him once, but he'll do it again. This was literally a person letting me know that my help wasn't doing much for him and he will eventually succeed. In such a time (especially if it's a family member or a close friend). You have to remain nice and firm. When he told me this. Instead of freaking out and going insane. I turned extremely "NICE AND FIRM". Remember these words - "NICE AND FIRM". You won't blame the person for their actions yet you would also not let them go in that direction. So I usually used to respond with something like... "I know you're in a lot of pain right now. The kind, I currently don't understand. But please know that it hurts me immensely to see a close friend leaving me like this. I really NEED you to stay around. Just know that I am here for you and will be here at all times." "I know things seem impossible right now, but we can work through this. I am here to help whenever you need me." 6- Seek professional help at the earliest - Try to get them professional help in any way, shape or form at the earliest. Keep a close family member around them or have someone watch over them just in case things go south. It can be like a ticking time bomb at times. You just never know. How to take care of your own mental health when trying to save a suicidal person... 1- You aren't responsible - Often you might end up shifting the blame to yourself and might feel that if you don't do enough, the person might end it. Understand that you didn't break them and you technically can't fix them. You are just there to help them in any way you can. All in all, you aren't too much in control of anything. If they really want to end their life, nothing you do or say will help. They might leave the house in the middle of the night when no one's watching and that will be the end. Understand that you can't watch over someone 24/7 and it might be unrealistic to expect such a thing. 2- Cater to your own well being - There is a good chance that the suicidal person might turn you into their only reason to live. As the saying goes, the moment you save someone's life, they turn into your responsibility. This usually happens during breakups when one person wants to leave and the other one keeps threatening suicide. This is not reasonable behavior and if you're being manipulated like this, just let one of their family members know and exit. The more you get yourself involved, the more they'll manipulate you. I had a friend whose girlfriend kept threatening to kill herself anytime he even remotely talked about ending the relationship. Eventually, he let his family member know that their daughter was suicidal and distanced himself. This might sound a little cruel, however, the more you feed into such behavior, the worse it gets. 3- Never try to fix their issue - Be someone who'll help them in their journey but don't turn into a mechanic who'll fix everything for them. Only a trained professional with years worth of training and experience is apt to help them fix their issues. For example - Most people in our country don't even know much about clinical psychological issues such as bi-polar disorder, borderline personality disorder etc. Take extreme caution, because if you try to turn into their mechanic, you might end up making it a lot worse for them and yourself in the process. Just like how you can't perform a heart transplant on someone because you aren't a surgeon. Similarly, don't try to fix their psychological issues unless you're a trained psychologist. What if they did commit suicide on my watch? In such a case, first of all, I'd like to offer my deep condolences and would like to say just one thing - "YOU DID EVERYTHING YOU COULD". There is nothing more you could have done. A suicide is a very personal decision that affects a lot more than the person who passes. It affects the whole family, friends and loved one's. The trauma can stay with you for ages sometimes, especially for the family. In such a scenario, you might also need to get professional help so that you can unravel your emotions one layer at a time and get a realistic understanding and acceptance of the event. A lot of us might think that it is okay, we can deal with it ourselves but this is almost like a disease that spreads like wildfire. Very often, when a person leaves us like this, we often end up adopting their tendencies and can feel suicidal too. However, to mention a crude reality again - There is nothing you could have done. If a person wishes to live or end things, that decision stays with them and is outside our realm of control. What if someone is using "SUICIDE" as a tool to manipulate me? Stuck with a life partner who threatens suicide every time you talk about ending the relationship? Have that one friend who turns hopeless, the moment they don't get what they want? First things first - You are being manipulated. Yes. However, this doesn't mean that they aren't serious or won't do it. Sometimes a person ends up taking action just to prove their point to you. I used to know a female who used to cut herself right since her childhood. One fine day I had a slight argument with her and within a matter of seconds, she started cutting herself and sent me pictures of the same. Now your first instinct during this time might be to give in to the person's demands and let them have whatever they need. However, the moment you do that, they know that now they control you and you might end up being stuck for ages. Remember, this isn't reasonable behavior. You have the right to say NO. You have the right to exit a friendship or a relationship. You have to right to your own mental well being. I immediately contacted a bunch of her close friends and family who understand her better than me. I let them know exactly what happened and then I cut off contact for a while. Remember, you might be tempted to keep in touch but the more you do, the more you'll be feeding into the whole manipulation game that they crafted. It could leave you heavily damaged and the trauma can paralyze you for years if you aren't careful. In India, we don't have a good system for this but in other countries, the moment a person self harms, they are taken away by the police and put in the psych ward for 14 days for complete assessment. Bollywood has kind of made making suicidal threats as something very common and normal. In reality, this is nothing less than terrorizing someone for getting what you want. Last edited by rahul_jo : 24th June 2020 at 12:43. |
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24th June 2020, 12:39 | #10 |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room A lesser known/discussed fact about depression is that combating it requires almost continuous effort throughout life and is like exercising. You slack and you put on weight again. This is where some people sink back into depression after showing initial positive signs. It is not like cancer which can be surgically removed. It is important to differentiate between triggers of depression and underlying root causes. Good psychiatrists will identify these root causes and counsel accordingly. Professional help is necessary and self help only works to an extent or in limited cases. I have relatives who have lived with depression for prolonged periods, and while acknowledging the problem have done precious little on their own. They want medication to take care of it. This is a vast field of study and I don't want to show a candle to the sun, but I have observed few common traits among those affected in my extended family: 1) Thinking too much about the world and its problems 2) Constant financial insecurity, often completely unwarranted 3) Lack of physical activity 4) Too judgemental and critical of people and situations 5) Constant fear of losing a loved one Understanding life is like understanding anything else.- maths, painting, programming. Some do it better than others. If we can allow people to teach us subjects, there is no harm in letting someone counsel us on life. Last edited by Malyaj : 24th June 2020 at 12:51. Reason: better clarity |
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24th June 2020, 14:32 | #11 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Quote:
Let’s also be clear that these days the term depression is used a lot. And in many cases it is not really what doctors would describe as depression. It is quite normal for every person to have the occasional depressed period/feelings. Part of life. The medical world does not fully understand the causes of depression. As with so many other diseases. There are many possible causes, and sometimes, various factors combine to trigger symptoms. There is a wide range of factors that can lead to depression, individually or in combination. Think genetic features, changes in the brain’s neurotransmitter levels, environmental factors, psychological and social factors, specific conditions such as bipolar disorder, autism etc. The notion that it is all to do with failed family/relationship is factual incorrect. Although, obviously it can play a role. Generally speaking treatment can be around support (family, friends), Physotherapy (including counseling, cognitive behavioural support etc) and medication. There are also the usual alternative treatments (herbs). We also know that diet and exercise can help. (Especially if the person involved was not following a particular healthy diet and or life style) There are many different kind of depressions. Roughly speaking they break out in two main groups: Situational depression and clinical depression. The first one being the relative mild one, and can often be related to a specific incident/occurence. (E.g major chance in one’s life; divorce, death of spouse/child) Clinical depression is a far more severe form of depression. It can completely alter a person’s thought patterns (and personality) and bodily functions. People who are diagnosed as clinical depressed, typically can not function at all in normal life any more. They need constant care and supervision. I have had two family members suffering from clinical depression. They never managed to figure out what caused it, treatment was not successful and they suffered and needed to be looked after for many years, in fact till they died. Part of the problem with depression is that it is not a straight forward ailment, like for instance ‘breaking a leg”. So its diagnosis, treatment tends to evolve over time. Worse, depression is often misunderstood or the condition is belittled by the individual environment (i.e. one’s friends as family). And no, real depression typically does not cure by experiencing unconditional love from family alone. Although that is an important part and I would hope most of us would have friends and family that would stand by us no matter what always! Not only when we are depressed. I suffered from a massive burn out some years ago. With very severe symptoms. So severe I ended up in hospital for a week. I was seen by just about all specialist and they ran every test known to man. After a week nothing physically was found wrong with me, (although I was suffering from a long list of (physical) symptoms) and they started thinking massive burn out. Which in the end was the correct diagnose. I spend 9 months at home. I was also treated for depression during those months. So take it from somebody who never thought he would be susceptible to burn out or depression. I suffered from both, they often come in pairs. it is real and it takes a lot of time and effort and anxiety to get better. If you ever recover fully that is. One of our sons is autistic. We are lucky that he can live by himself, but he does suffer from depression too. It is a real medical condition. It comes in many different shapes and form. If it is a real depression (diagnosed by a doctor), it does need medical interference, no mistake. It is not something the family can fix, or should even attempt to fix. My son needs drugs to stay on an even keel. Likely for the remainder of his life. So please, don’t oversimplify depression. It is very real, very complex and typically requires a multitude of different treatments. Unfortunately, for some it can be a condition for life. Jeroen | |
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24th June 2020, 15:27 | #12 |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: KL-08/Chennai
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room
I mean no disrespect, but please clarify if you are trained professionally to advice on this issue. If not, it might be misconstrued as professional advice. |
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24th June 2020, 15:44 | #13 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: New Delhi
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Quote:
I never advised on how to fix a depressed person. I am talking from a third party perspective on how to protect yourself and effectively cater to a depressed person. | |
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24th June 2020, 17:22 | #14 |
BHPian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Pothole Town
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room I am a tax professional by profession, practising in GST, been suffering from this ailment since last 3 years due to a largely disturbed career. On the insistence of family, I'm undergoing medical treatment for this, but don't think that it will help much. A lot of professionals practising GST are also overworked, burned out and depressed. Will share my account after few days, after observing other users accounts. Following this thread closely. |
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24th June 2020, 17:37 | #15 | |
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| Re: The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room Quote:
One school which pins it on genetics, chemical imbalance, neurotransmitters, etc. reluctantly acknowledging small to negligible role of social and environmental factors and to give medicine as first line of treatment. Lot of money to be made here, quick outcomes. There is another school which considers social and environmental factors playing the main role and the chemical imbalance is a defence mechanism of the brain that is not able to cope with the intensity of the abuse. No money to be made and lot of frustration. Within my own close relatives, I have people subscribing to these two different theories and I could not convince my own close relatives to change their views so I am not going to argue with the points you mentioned. I am not being lazy, but I know how it plays out. The correlation between childhood abuse/bullying, being part of violent wars, loss of loved ones, etc. and later-stage mental illness is so strong that I will err on the side of believing that the chemical imbalance is the effect and not the cause. I am sure you have heard the phrase "follow the money" - when it comes to your health never underestimate the motives of healthcare industry. A good psychiatrist can help maybe 10 people in a month without using medicine. With medicine, he can handle 10 patients in 2 hours and can work as teams to scale. I am not talking about autism, epilepsy etc. about which I have no knowledge. I am talking about chronic depression, PSTD, bi-polar disorder, suicidal tendencies, schizophrenia, etc. which to me require 99mg love and 1mg optional medicine. Funny thing is when you visit the psychiatrists, they really don't want to know about your environmental factors - they may let you explain all your sordid story so you feel better about paying huge consultation fee - but they are just looking for "markers" to diagnose you efficiently and give you medicine to suppress those symptoms. Next patient please. The doctor will tell you this is like diabetes, there is no cure, and like diabetes you have to be on medication for the rest of your life. News flash! Diabetes itself is reversible just with diet change alone. Sadly, to overcome these problems without medication, you need a strong mental resolve but your mind itself is messed up. Have you heard of ADHD mental disorder in kids? In few years, this will be imported into India from the west and you will be told to medicate all the pesky kids. I do not want to disrespect or discredit the medicine based approach. It is essential and a life-saver in many cases. All our emotions are just biochemical reactions at the end of the day but that doesn't mean we are just machines to be tuned with medicine. I feel there is always a story behind every case how it escalated to a level requiring medical intervention. I am not here to convince anyone, as I said I failed to do so with my own relatives. If a person can manage with 1mg instead of 5mg because of a loving family, it's an immense favour to that person. Quote from Beautiful Mind, John Forbes Nash Jr.: I've made the most important discovery of my life. It's only in the mysterious equation of love that any logical reasons can be found. I'm only here tonight because of you. You are the only reason I am... you are all my reasons. I believe that your role as a parent, spouse, child, sibling, friend, etc. can go a long way to nurture the vulnerable to be strong enough deal with intense trauma that they otherwise would not have been able to cope with. I don't mean it to say you should feel guilty about what happened but step up your game and do the very best for your loved one. In the spirit of Team-BHP: family is the seat-belt and doctor is the airbag. can work wonders together and you need airbag only when impact is too severe. | |
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