[Burgman_tales]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Exactly right!! :

I have been a part of IT for over a decade in only product companies. My current employer's customers are global telecom giants who care two hoots on whether we guys are working from the bottom of the Indian Ocean or the top of Mount Everest

Service companies leadership usually develop a sort of slave mentality where they become Yes men to clients

[viggienomad]

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

... India's work productivity is one of the lowest in the world. Unless we improve our work productivity, unless we reduce corruption in the government you know at some level, unless we reduce the delays in our bureaucracy in taking decision we will not be able to compete with those countries that have made tremendous progress.
...

With all due respect, he did outlined that productivity performance is due to the prevailing system & not due to performance of individual Indians. The performance of Indians in abroad (all fields right from labour / nursing to top jobs) shows that Indians does not lack in productivity. But he jumped to the 70 hours figure to compensate productivity.

Majority of Indian youth are under non-corporate kind of setup, in construction industry, eateries, small & medium shops, self-employed. They already put in that many hours. Wonder whether he wants them to put in more hours? Or is it in general corporate sector (like in pharmaceuticals, engineering, banking, chemical companies)? Or mainly in IT sector? You decide!

[Samurai]

They say Helen of Troy had a face that launched thousand ships...

Now we have NRNs "70 hours comment", that launched thousand memes...

I mean no disrespect to NRN, but he long lost touch with what happens in the trenches. He is thinking like an entrepreneur (high risk/gain), which should not be equated or compared to employee's situation (low risk/gain).

When an entrepreneur works 70+ hours a week towards a goal, attainment of that goal has high rewards, if the goal is met and other stars align. But for an employee, there are no high rewards, he/she will only get the next goal.

Also, humans are not machines. For me, once an intense goal is met after weeks of long hours, it will be followed by days if not weeks of blank-mindedness, where I can't do anything except routine mindless work like entering bills into accounting software. Also, I can go on for weeks thinking about a design, without really typing a single word, which could get me into trouble if I had a boss. After 33 years of playing every role in software engineering, I am pretty sure that IT workers can neither be consistently productive nor their productivity be consistently measured.

I learned about the unproductive nature of long hours without clear goals, pretty early in my career. Back in 1995 I was in a large project with 130 people and 10 teams. The top boss decided that everyone will work 10x5 hours, which most team leaders interpreted as at least 10x5. In fact, my team leader decided she will do much better, and mandated that her team will do 14 hours on weekdays, but also 8-10 hours on Saturday and 4-6 hours on Sunday. Yes, she wanted us to work 82-86 hours to be in her good graces. Once I had to take a Sunday off, and she screwed my appraisal.

Despite 14 hours days, schedule was slipping badly. But she was incapable of learning why, instead she used it as a defense to claim her team members are not productive despite all her efforts. Meanwhile I had figured out that people were barely working 4-5 hours during their 14 hours presence in the office. Those long hours had dulled their minds, which made them even slower. Fortunately, she quit in the middle of the project and I took over as the new team leader. And I didn't want to continue a process that didn't work. Instead, I created a MS-project schedule using only 8x5 hours for my team, and told them they don't have to stay beyond 6pm or come on weekends, if they met their timelines on MS-project. I boldly ignored the 10h mandate from the top boss, and even email CCed my new instructions to the team to the top boss, who wisely decided not to comment. I had a good defense, neither 10h nor 14h had worked. It was time to try something new.

Result was dramatic and astounding. Once my team realized they can leave at 6pm if the daily goal was met, they found a tangible goal with real rewards. Barely anyone wasted any time, and they started meeting the daily goals by 4-5pm, and kill time until 6pm working on next day's goals. About 3 months later, my team had completed the project 3 weeks ahead of schedule. And my team was the happiest, because they finally had work life balance. Some of the younger ones didn't know what to do with all that free time.

What was the impact of this successful experiment on other team leaders who were watching us closely? Nothing. They concluded it was a freak accident, and/or didn't want to defy the top boss who didn't change the 10h mandate. While the remaining teams continued to work 10-12 hours a day and rarely met deadline, my team worked only 8 hours and met deadline every time. My team and I actually felt guilty about the whole thing because we left at 6pm everyday and didn't show up on weekends, while others spent long hours.

If one wants to increase productivity, find tangible goals to reward productivity. It doesn't have to be money, just bettering lives of employees will do. Simply extending the number of working hours doesn't increase productivity. It has the exact opposite effect.

[d.w.w.]

Originally Posted by Samurai

If one wants to increase productivity, find tangible goals to reward productivity. It doesn't have to be money, just bettering lives of employees will do.

This post is a gem. Has to be framed and hung on every managers cubicle

[Bhupesh_2628]

Wipro makes work from office thrice a week mandatory from November 15, warns errant employees of consequences.

"Starting November 15, all employees must be present at their assigned office location for at least three days each week. This change aims to enhance teamwork, facilitate face-to-face interactions, and strengthen Wipro's culture," the mail from Wipro's Chief Human Resources Officer Saurabh Govil read.

Reference links:
1) https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...-11677971.html

2) https://www.indiatoday.in/technology...941-2023-11-06

3) https://www.newindianexpress.com/bus...y-2630122.html

[aashishnb]

I think he forgot to add / missed:

One should work 70-hours a week, actually a lot more.

Just that, this 70 hour includes work for MONEY (i.e. your job), work for YOUR PROGRESS (study / self-development / learning something new), work for your DEVELOPMENT (physical & mental - exercise, play, etc.).

[Raghu M]

A very nice read. Like you mentioned he has long lost touch. The next time he appears on a talk show, we should say this - the youth of today is ready to work for 70 hours, however, they will put 40 hours at work and the remaining on their start up ideas/businesses. How does it sound? I want to see how he reacts. Not making fun of anyone at all but in today's time where the overall health of a person is pretty fragile, putting in 70 hours week after week is simply not possible. Once your health is hit, there is a downfall in your overall output (not only at work). These are dangerous statements (IMO) that can be taken straight at face value and quoted in various forums. I work as a VP ops and always believe in proper work life balance. I work around 45 hours which is more than enough to make the clients happy.

[sgmuser]

I had received multiple times emails from Gulf to work in contract at 60 hours. 10*6. One day weekend. I rejected atleast 10 times. Or simply ask an absurd rate just to annoy them. These consultant companies are trying to bill this much hours with the client. Infosys being a consultant is trying to doing the same it looks like, to make 70 hours a norm.

[Small Bot]

Originally Posted by Bhupesh_2628

Wipro makes work from office thrice a week mandatory from November 15, warns errant employees of consequences.

You could see this coming from a long way away. It's only a matter of time before more companies start directing more employees to come back to office. I know several financial organizations who were trying hard to get staff to work two days in office every week way back in H2 2021. I wonder if Wipro had tried that first before laying down an edict though.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by viggienomad

With all due respect, he did outlined that productivity performance is due to the prevailing system & not due to performance of individual Indians. The performance of Indians in abroad (all fields right from labour / nursing to top jobs) shows that Indians does not lack in productivity. But he jumped to the 70 hours figure to compensate productivity.

True. People are quoting him out of context. Even in western countries the productivity has dropped post 2000. There is data for that. We can only imagine it in our country. There is also lot of studies on impact on social media on productivity in addition to messing up the social structure.

[am1m]

From calls with recruiters and information from friends, am getting a sense that 'hybrid' seems to cover just about any combination you can think of. From 2-3 times a week to once a quarter, to 10 days a month, to "yes you can do all 10 days over two weeks and take the rest of the month working remote"!

On one end there are the Infys and TCSs, Googles and others who are mandating a return to work and won't have any trouble getting enough replacements for those employees for whom that doesn't work out. At the other end are the small startups that need people and are willing to save on office space and go completely remote.

In between there is so much variety, that I'm beginning to realize that it's worth applying for such roles because more often that not, you can negotiate how many days you have to go in. Of course depending on how badly the company needs your skill set at that particular point.

As an example, got a call from a manager for a job I'd applied for more than 2 years ago, but dropped out of the process half-way when he informed me that their policy was going to change to in-office work. Now apparently they are more open to 'making remote work happen', even though the official company line is still 'return to work'. This is a very big company, a brand name with thousands of employees. Apparently the head honchos make policy, but the ground level managers are stuck with making things work and are adopting a more realistic approach.

I'd still be wary about joining a company without an official policy, but just saying that options are still open. And if you're a remote work seeker, just make sure you are up front with your requirement at the initial stage itself, so no one's time is wasted.

[Revvatron]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

A very nice read. Like you mentioned he has long lost touch. The next time he appears on a talk show, we should say this - the youth of today is ready to work for 70 hours, however, they will put 40 hours at work and the remaining on their start up ideas/businesses. How does it sound? I want to see how he reacts.
I work as a VP ops and always believe in proper work life balance. I work around 45 hours which is more than enough to make the clients happy.

Well said. Another thing I want to add is even if you work more hours you are not allowed to put it in the timesheet because the maximum you are allowed to bill a client is 8 hrs/day. I don't know if this is done at infosys but when I was working for top mnc of our country we were allowed only to enter 8 hours in timesheet so 40 hours per week even though we were working 45-50 hours, sometimes saturdays as well.
So even if you work 70 hours per week you can only enter 40 hours

[am1m]

Just realized this morning that I haven't had a 'company ID' card for the past 3 years. Since my present job doesn't have a separate office, we never got ID/swipe cards. For those who want to meet in person, we have some small space in a co-working location, but that doesn't require a swipe in.

Are there any downsides to not having company ID? I remember you needed a company ID to apply for loans and credit cards. Do you need it for visa applications? Upside is if I break any traffic rules, Bangalore traffic police won't find my ID to "inform my manager" (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...0.cms?from=mdr)

[d.w.w.]

Originally Posted by am1m

Are there any downsides to not having company ID? I remember you needed a company ID to apply for loans and credit cards. Do you need it for visa applications?

The only downside I see is that you miss the first thing one will use to prove his relationship with a company. When looking for rented places, house owners usually ask for a copy of the id card and it will be hard to convince them the truth.

For loans and visa, employment letter in company letter head should work just fine.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by am1m

Just realized this morning that I haven't had a 'company ID' card for the past 3 years.

I haven't used the company ID in 20 years. Sure, I have one, but don't really carry it around, let alone display it. Never needed any of the employees to carry and display it work either. Never used it for access control either.

My reluctance comes from what I witnessed when I returned to India in 2004. I was surprised to note everyone wearing their employee ID all the time in Bangalore, even women used to hang it down their neck. Even walking around the apartment building. My visiting MIL thought they were very posh looking security guards.