[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by anti21

I think Work from Home has been amazing for me (and my company).

Going back to full WFO from WFH will be like going back to old Nokia days from the current Smart phone times.

Service companies such as Infy, TCS, etc. will continue to run like cattle sheds and ask to swipe 9.5 hours daily. While smart companies and companies with good management will try to see how to leverage WFH with satellite offices for, say, two days connect a month. A good Zoom video call is enough to get 99% of the work that is done in software services industry along with twice a month or in every 2 months personal connect. Even weekly hybrid i.e. 3 days WFO and 2 days WFH, is just an overkill. Almost everyone at workplace is just an acquaintance and it just doesn't make sense to meet them daily or thrice a week.

[Dieseltuned]

Originally Posted by CeeBeeR

Hi Diesel,
Imagine I'm in your company.
1) I live in a tier- II city. It doesn't have the fancy malls, but it has stable call and data connectivity and a good postal network. We have Jio fibre that works fabulously. So no question of slow bandwidth and also no issues in receiving office parcels over courier.
2) I'm a bachelor, living with my parents since the pandemic started and I have my own room upstairs where I have the aforementioned Jio fibre router connected to an inverter that provides a 6 hours backup. This again prevents any sudden disconnetions due to a power cut. 6 hours should be more than sufficient. In case that doesn't work, I have power banks that can provide my mobile enough juice to act as a hotspot for at least 2 days. The laptop also has an extra battery.
3) I made it a rule to never, ever connect to web meetings through my phone. WFH is a luxury and I won't abuse it. So, I always connect through my office provided laptop.
4)I lost 15 kgs by moving back to my hometown from B'lore. How? Well, I can wake up early, spend an hour jogging/walking, spend another hour in the gym, eat good food at home while being calorie conscious and in general avoid the stress of traffic. It's not that these can't be followed in a city, but it's just that doing this in my hometown is easier.

With the above points, would you still call me back to office just because WFH didn't work well for you and some colleagues? Would you risk losing an employee in the name of "collaboration, coordination etc"?

I'm aware that WFH is easier for me because I'm slightly more privileged than others. I have a supportive management, no children running around and the financial means to setup my infrastructure. However, this also illustrates why we shouldn't generalise the WFH vs WFO argument. What works for me may not work for another person, but that doesn't mean I should be made to follow something just to ensure a "one rule for all" mentality.
Management should take the time to understand different types of employee WFH situations, not just stick to the popular consensus or their own personal experience.

Now, I won't stay in my hometown forever. In fact, I'm planning (and dreading) to go back to B'lore. However, I'll visit the office rarely and if that isn't allowed, will search for options that provide more flexibility in work locations.

What you have put forth as in your own words is 'priviliged'. A separate room, back up invertors, etc are actually a luxury for some people. What I have experienced is an amalgamation of first hand experiences of people struggling to work from absolute remote locations of this vast country. I am not going to name those places to avoid any regional biases, but trust me they are really really remote areas and my colleagues went out on a bone and a knee to deliver projects despite these challanges. And deliver we did with great success. What I am trying to put forth is WFH will not be possible for all as you rightly said every body is not as 'priviliged' as you and I might be. People have overcome great hardships to deliver their work despite these hardships and I tip a hat to the commitment of these folks.

I have not mentioned anywhere in my post about calling these folks back for 'collaboration'. These are just corporate jargons which have no meaning if you do not have a man to man connect with your team. A personal touch, an empathy for them. I have merely pointed out the difficulties that we faced in these 2 years of time and how me and my team went out on a limb to overcome them.

To each their own. Peace.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Dieseltuned

These are just corporate jargons which have no meaning if you do not have a man to man connect with your team. A personal touch, an empathy for them. I have merely pointed out the difficulties that we faced in these 2 years of time and how me and my team went out on a limb to overcome them.

Absolutely and I loved reading your post, it raised some great points that a lot of us didn't think about.

I think that this thread has, for the most part, gone beyond the "does WFH work, should it be done, can it be done, it's bad/it's great, etc." cycles. I think everyone has understood that certainly can work, but it doesn't work for everyone, certainly not for all jobs, and different people have their preferences. And obviously some companies will never go for it because of their work model and a lot of companies have used it to their advantage as well.

Hopefully this will evolve into a thread where people can help each other fine-tune the process and share what worked through their personal experiences to help us better navigate through all these new ways of working. And for that we need to hear the pitfalls (that your post so usefully listed) as well without always circling back to same "absolutely for vs. absolutely against" arguments.

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by am1m

If you factually find that you can't trust a lot of people in your team, then you need to look at your hiring processes. If you basically come in with the mindset that most employees can't be trusted by default, the issue is with your management style! (And you probably shouldn't be a people manager in the first place!)

Agree with the above.

From my personal experience what matters a lot more than enforcing a place of work is hiring the right people who are motivated, sincere and have the capability to deliver.
I offer my own experience as an (anecdotal) example to add to the several examples already provided in this thread.

I work for a well known MNC and my team of 25 engineers successfully completed a very critical and complex project (impacting millions of customers around the world ) during the 2 year COVID period completely WFH. The project needed a lot of collaboration both internally as well as with other teams across the company and also with major customers around the world. We had 5 people who joined us at the start of the project and all of them performed very well without even a single face to face meeting with the rest of the team- No welcome lunches, no intro speeches, no team outings. We just ensured they had the freedom to video /audio call anyone from the team during office hours during the ramp up period just like they could walk to anyone's cube and get clarifications if they were in the office. And that was all that was needed.

The right strategy for any company should be to provide sufficient flexibility for their star/above average employees to choose how they want to work, as the reality is that, depending on the personal situation and the individual nature some people prefer WFH and some prefer working from the Office. If flexibility is not given the talented folks will simply move to other employers who do.

Obviously I am referring only to IT jobs which don't require physical presence , which I believe forms a significant chunk.

[anti21]

Originally Posted by am1m

Quite frankly, where do people get the time anyway?! Once I'm done with my work at my one job, I just want to shut down and do something else!

Haha, I've found that generally they are younger unmarried people who are chasing money or some extra experience. If their work is not affected, I don't mind. If it is being affected, I'd let them know in a one-on-one but till now I haven't had a chance for that. Since we work about 8 hours * 5 days on average, they have some time. Some invest in self learning to improve themselves (switching verticals is pretty easy in our company, where software engineers have gone to sales or data engineers move to DevOps etc.) or some might do that. To each their own, but I generally push them to expand their domain or knowledge as it'll be helpful in future.

Originally Posted by Dieseltuned

A separate room, back up invertors, etc are actually a luxury for some people. What I have experienced is an amalgamation of first hand experiences of people struggling to work from absolute remote locations of this vast country.

Yeah, a separate room is definitely a luxury for some people in India. However, rest is not.

A WiFi connection costs Rs. 800-1200 per month. Thanks to BSNL (which is why it is much needed) and Railwire, fiber with 100mbps is available in even the remotest of locations. A 4G connection with 200GB costs about Rs. 1000 per month in India. Wi-Fi Router UPS with 4-5 hours of backup costs Rs 2000 (x2 as one for router and one for modem might be needed). So, with the UPS cost of 4000 and at a monthly cost of Rs. 2200 you can pretty much have very good connection in Tier-2 and Tier-3 cities and villages. I know because I've worked from remotest parts of India (Leh, Manali, Jamanipali, Jagdalpur etc in all kinds of weather). If the above were provided, I doubt there would be a network connectivity issue (barring natural disasters like storms, cyclones etc.) in major cities and villages of India.

This was enabled because the company gave us a onetime WFH setup cost and a monthly reimbursement for these bills. I know many would not put that in setup on their own because it might be a significant portion of their salary. This is something management needs to understand (and I've dealt with kind of management that didn't, asking why some interns did not want to pay 800 to come to an office team party when their monthly stipend was 12000).

We've had laptops delivered to remotest locations in India (even near Pakistan border) to Northeast. And anyway, one time commute to pick up laptop if the courier company refuses to deliver it is acceptable.

Unfortunately, lip syncing is common in interviews. With our automated tests, we get the results and first thing we do is ask them to explain the logic they used and why did they use it way. Then you have to carefully watch to see if they are lip syncing or not. With fake interviews, it comes on to HR Recruiter to make sure the candidate is same. Even then it is possible some might slip through. In that case, the only option remains is judging the candidate on probation period. Maybe because we generally hire people with at least 2 years of experience it has been a bit better for us.

But overall, the quality of candidates that we hire have improved due to wider pool availability. That has been absolutely clear. It also becomes much easier to pull candidates from WFO/Hybrid companies also as per HR. Even fact every time a company announces return to office or hybrid, our HR starts reaching out to their employees and many are ready to go through our process and we get the good ones.

[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by anti21

Also, some have raised concerns of moonlighting. I personally don't have a problem with it. If employee is delivering what is expected of them, I don't care what they do with their spare time. If it helps them earn an extra income while also learning additional things on their spare time, I don't see a downside.

Am doing "moonlighting" at the moment, but not for myself. My employer is making me work for two clients while telling them that I am working exclusively for them.

The HR recently sent out an org wide mailer against moonlighting, and on reading it, I couldn't help but laugh out loud.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Am doing "moonlighting" at the moment, but not for myself. My employer is making me work for two clients while telling them that I am working exclusively for them.

The HR recently sent out an org wide mailer against moonlighting, and on reading it, I couldn't help but laugh out loud.

Hasn't that been the practice for IT Service Industry companies since long? The overlap could be brief or long, but the practice has been prevalent as far as I know.

Though this is done for senior roles (experience wise) mostly as I understand. Disguised under different jargon terms usually.

[UD17]

Personally never did WFH,except the mandatory lockdown period in March 2020.
Working in the manufacturing industry where lot of coordination required from each team members,the face to face meeting/interaction solve so many things very fast. Even then provided WFH to employees if they asked for it without any questions, people also did not took advantage luckily and made the full process so pleasant for all.

Last two days it rained heavily in Pune. Many employee asked for WFH, provided them with the same while maintaining a balance of absenteeism and work responsibility.

I firmly believe every company where it's possible to continue WFH should allow. It create so much cohesiveness between management and employees. Sometimes few bad apples spoil the party though.

[hondatoyotafan]

Originally Posted by Dieseltuned

I am not going to name those places to avoid any regional biases, but trust me they are really really remote areas and my colleagues went out on a bone and a knee to deliver projects despite these challanges. .

I remember when one of my colleague in a remote place lost his jio data connection and had to ask his brother to take him to the nearest taluk in a remote part of eastern india when we were in a production release and he had to release a new package. He sat under the only Jio tower servicing his place all night till the package was released.

[vj_torqueaddict]

We went full remote in March 2020. It's been great so far. Some people do complain that they miss office interactions, they have the option to go to office. But not many are present in the office. Needless to say our productivity has been great. Mine too personally.

Remote work is the future for Software folks. Flexi work hours is the future. Most management style of factory workers does not apply to Knowledge workers.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Am doing "moonlighting" at the moment, but not for myself. My employer is making me work for two clients while telling them that I am working exclusively for them.

That's not moonlighting as long as you are paid by the same employer & they are aware of who all you work for. This is a standard practice in ITeS firms since decades. Moonlighting is when you work on 2 different organization's payroll and either one is not aware of the other. Basically it depends on the definition of 'Conflict of Interest' of your firm. There are a lot of folks who are youtube/insta influencers. That's also a source of income but thats not moonlighting as long as its not leading to 'Conflict of Interest'.

Originally Posted by hondatoyotafan

I remember when one of my colleague in a remote place lost his jio data connection and had to ask his brother to take him to the nearest taluk in a remote part of eastern india when we were in a production release and he had to release a new package. He sat under the only Jio tower servicing his place all night till the package was released.

Well that's something which can happen in cities as well. Rain affected areas of Bangalore or Mumbai where it floods usually don't have connectivity for a day or two. I don't see how WFO is going to solve this?

Not to nit-pick but so much dependency on just 1 person is never a good idea specially during major golive/releases. One should always have backup specially during these key situations. Atleast that's what I have seen in my 15 years of career across ITeS and product based firms that I worked for.

If someone is WFH its his/her responsibility to make sure connectivity is in place when required. Once in a blue-moon blackout is understandable but if its a regular phenomena in the area, they better work form office. Period!!!

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

The HR recently sent out an org wide mailer against moonlighting, and on reading it, I couldn't help but laugh out loud.

With all these IT services giants raging against moonlighting, with one even calling it cheating, I wonder if they apply the same rules in their US branches.

There was this guy who was moonlighting in USA... he created a new type of computer in his spare time, while working for a computer company called HP. He offered it to his HP 5 times, who didn't show interest at all. So they definitely knew he was moonlighting. If HP had not allowed him to moonlight, we wouldn't have Apple company today.

When I worked in USA, plenty of my colleagues did moonlight with full knowledge of the employer. They were moonlighting in the same industry too, while ensuring they are not competing with their primary employer.

[DigitalOne]

This is significant.

Source

Govt mulls ‘work from home’ for all SEZ employees

The proposal, once approved, can help in creating job opportunities in smaller cities like Rajkot and Una, Piyush Goyal added.

The commerce ministry is considering a proposal to further relax the guidelines and allow 100% work from home facility for employees of units in special economic zones covering all the sectors, commerce and industry minister Piyush Goyal said on Tuesday.

[IamNikhil]

From a complete WFH schedule since 2020, my company has resumed physical office attendance since last month. We started with once a week and have now been asked to come to office on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday every week.

P.s. Sorely miss my afternoon naps! ��

[pedrolourenco]

I have been sailing for over 25 years now. They say the ship is your home for 3-9 months (depending on your rank) so it's technically "Work from Home" even though you are disconnected from the world and your loved ones.
Now I always wanted to quit and take up a job ashore. However in our industry that would mean moving to Mumbai or Chennai (if you want to stay in India) or move to Singapore, Hong Kong or Dubai (where though you are abroad, the moment you step into the office, it's like coming back to India). Both options didn't really excite me.
With the pandemic most of our office staff also started WFH. I'm hoping this becomes more or less permanent and more WFH jobs are available in this sector. Then I will definitely consider. I already have a dedicate work space at my new house.