[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

AstraZeneca’s submission in U.K. court nothing new, say doctors over Covishield’s potential to cause blood clots.

In a letter of response sent in May 2023, AstraZeneca told lawyers for Mr Scott that “we do not accept that TTS is caused by the vaccine at a generic level”.


But in the legal document submitted to the High Court in February, AstraZeneca said: “It is admitted that the AZ vaccine can, in very rare cases, cause TTS. The causal mechanism is not known.

Link

The thing is they said two seemingly similar statements in 2023 & 2024.
Australia had pulled back AstraZeneca from their country in March 2023 for the same reason. Link

The case and conclusions would go on and eventually fade away in news. What caused so many people pass away or contract heart related problems immediately after taking the vaccine remains unexplainable or justified. Most of them had no history of illness related to heart and had healthy lifestyles as opposed to what 'doctors' say in media.

[Mystic]

I have read many speculations on the vaccines. All industries in general ( with AI being the youngest ) and pharma in particular has a powerful lobby. It is good in a way that a few big companies invest millions on the R&D and they do not take any short cuts as they may be sued in billions. In the end we get a near perfect product.

In our family, we have taken all possible vaccines for COVID both in USA, UK and India. By God’s grace, we are all safe from side effects. It is a good idea to try different vaccines in same family so that in the worst situation, some family members are safe just in case ( it is like having different mobile phone service providers within the family in one house so that there is always signal for at least one phone in emergency ).

Pandemics and Vaccinations have always been there for hundreds of years. The only difference is that we have information at our finger tips with our smart phones now. Now, we all google and suggest to the Doctors of the course of treatment to our symptoms. I think this overflow of medical information is cause to all the panic.

[Fuldagap]

I believe the vaccine was rushed and forced on people due to various other reasons but under the garb of preventing covid. Many people did not have the option to choose.
Some survived, some died and some are living with severe consequences.


It is not like buying sim cards. It ends up in ending human life compared to a distorted phone connection. Life in general has zero value in the mindsets of countrymen.

Many countries had taken astrazeneca off the shelves based on just single digit cases of side effects which had resulted in fatalities. Maybe they were wrong, they should have looked at the brighter side. Many people did not die taking the vaccine. Those who died should have been overlooked as guniea pigs.

Google is good. Learned people can learn more, before a tout proposes fatal applications.

[MBond007]

Shouldn't the government be held liable for enforcing people to take the jab? Will it compensate those who have passed away or will pass away due to the life threatening side effects?

Half baked rules are more dangerous than no rule.

[saket77]

It is impossible to say what could have been if someone didn't take the vaccine. How many would have died if left unvaccinated is a figure that is impossible to find out. This discussion will simply go round and round just like the lock down thread (that what if there was no lockdown) simply because we do not have data points to compare as to what would have happened vs what actually happened.
Me and my wife took the jabs and I was pre-decided that we would take different vaccines. My wife, who was vaccinated first, was administered Covishield and hence I took Covaxin. If she would have been given Covaxin, I would have gotten Covishield. Whatever you may call it, 'diversification in times of uncertainty is good' is something I have learnt in life.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by MBond007

Shouldn't the government be held liable for enforcing people to take the jab? Will it compensate those who have passed away or will pass away due to the life threatening side effects?

Half baked rules are more dangerous than no rule.

New Delhi, May 1

A Delhi-based lawyer on Wednesday moved the Supreme Court seeking directions to study the possible side-effects of AstraZeneca’s Covishield vaccine, one of two vaccines which was administered to millions of Indians during Covid-19 pandemic.

“The issue has to be looked upon by the Union government on priority so that in future no risk may occur regarding the health and life of Indian citizens,” advocate Vishal Tiwari said in his PIL filed after AstraZeneca admitted before a court in the UK that Covishield can potentially cause a rare side-effect associated with blood clotting.

Link

[PearlJam]

Originally Posted by MBond007

Shouldn't the government be held liable for enforcing people to take the jab?

I don't think the government explicitly ever "enforced" people to take the jab.

Just that, they smartly coerced people to take the jab, by making it a pre-condition to avail various services like trains/flights, and also asking (probably verbally) restaurants/malls/sports centers/etc to check for vaccination certificate as a condition for entry. Then they regularly kept adding more to this list, making a non-vaccinated life more and more difficult and painful.

Hence, any lawsuit against the government will unfortunately be simply thrown out. They will say that they never forced people to take it.

[RDS]

Originally Posted by saket77

It is impossible to say what could have been if someone didn't take the vaccine. How many would have died if left unvaccinated is a figure that is impossible to find out. This discussion will simply go round and round just like the lock down thread (that what if there was no lockdown) simply because we do not have data points to compare as to what would have happened vs what actually happened.
Me and my wife took the jabs and I was pre-decided that we would take different vaccines. My wife, who was vaccinated first, was administered Covishield and hence I took Covaxin. If she would have been given Covaxin, I would have gotten Covishield. Whatever you may call it, 'diversification in times of uncertainty is good' is something I have learnt in life.

That is very intelligent of you to have gone for this diversification. On the face of it, many might have called it foolish etc., but that was a great decision in absence of important information.

We can't depend on what is shown in media. When AstraZeneca says that in rare cases blood clots can happen, it is time to question what they mean by "Rare". And even then, we can't be sure.

When a company agrees, then we should assume that it is going to be quite noticeable and we can also assume that higher heart ailments rates (what is the increased percentage than usual), is due to Covishield.

The fact is in long run, the vaccine just might end up leaving more people dead/with serious ailments however, one won't be able to attribute that to vaccine directly. Further, even during the covid era, many people died even after getting covishield - at least I knew 2-3 instances, where Covishield would have been the reason, and raised a red flag in my circle on this (probably even in some public forums.) Who knows how many actually already lost lives due to this?

I raised this point very clearly with various people that vaccines usually are tested for years and years before getting launched in market.

Luckily, me and family eventually went with Covaxin after hearing from a close doctor friend that it is a safer option because of older technique used which is fully inactivated virus.

[rajeevsulu]

Then there is the "Endemic Act" which would anyway absolve the government, even if there was something which could be held against them.

[ValarMorghulis]

Folks, all the panic aside, I hope you have read the numerous articles and the testimonials of various doctors including Indian doctors.

Broadly:
1. Risks were known since 2021
2. Extremely rare means 7 out of 1 million may face issues

So, let's stop panicking please.

Just a few quotes from few articles:

Dr. Rajeev Jayadevan, co-chairman of National Indian Medical Association (IMA) Covid Task Force in Kerala, said: “The court admission is nothing new. In fact, these are well documented facts validated since early 2021 (soon after vaccine rollout). The World Health Organisation (WHO) wrote about it in May 2021 and updated in 2023.”

Dr. Akshay Budhraja, senior consultant, Respiratory and Sleep Medicine, Aakash Healthcare, Delhi, said: “The vaccine can potentially cause TTS, a very rare side effect, and the side effects occur within weeks to months, not after years.”

It has been more than two years of getting vaccinated and it has no long term effects. So, there is nothing to worry at present and no medicine is required

Link-1
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Conspiracy theories aside, at that time, vaccines were the only saviours and I remember people scampering to get one.
Funny, how times change.

PS: More people die per day in road accidents than have died of TTS since the vaccination started.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Conspiracy theories aside, at that time, vaccines were the only saviours and I remember people scampering to get one.
Funny, how times change.

This is what I recall too. Far from anyone forcing people to get vaccinated, I recall people jumping lines to get their doses. And there were perpetual shortages in the initial few months.

I understand that it is no comfort to anyone who has manifested adverse reactions. And certainly there has to be a serious investigation into these reactions. But the fact is this is the situation with any vaccine. Which is why there is also a standard vaccine adverse reaction reporting mechanism.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/

Personally, I'd go with vaccines over lock downs any day!

[Off-topic: What also should be investigated is whether the lock downs were needed or not. In my mind that was the most useless measure we implemented and it certainly caused more harm than good. If anything was 'forced' on us it was those multiple lock downs certainly. Much more than any vaccine ever was.]

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

So, let's stop panicking please.

Nobody is panicking: it's too late for that!

The thrombosis thing was/is, as said, known and rare. This is a specific possible side effect. Not to be played down, because possibly lethal, but, so far as blood clots go, probably safer than long-haul flight!

On the other hand, those who have cardiac issues are not imagining it, and we should respect them. It is true that they cannot say for sure that they were caused by covishield, but even the most sceptical of us cannot say for sure that they were not.

I continue to personally believe that long-term effects of covid itself are more likely, and can be very serious even disabling.

I'm willing to believe in conspiracy theories when big money is concerned. But I do think that researchers acted in good faith, and that governments had to do what they could in the face of dire crisis. Anyone wanting to chase governments in court would have to show wilful or negligent action. Some countries are holding enquiries into the actions of their governments during the covid pandemic: some people might be called to account, but don't hold the breath!

[Sandy Damodaran]

I had a very similar take on this. I was not amongst the first to take the vaccine. Also, given the amount of political chest thumping, I did not want Covaxin at any cost.

Waited a while (around 6 months) read what was available about AZN vaccine and took it with a song and prayer. Like I do with any other vaccine.

The rare side effects are part and parcel of every vaccine since penincillin, The possible side effects, while not quantified were put up on their site.

I had the mandatory double dose, skipped the optional third. As I did not ever get covid, I guess the vaccine did do its job.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Sandy Damodaran

The rare side effects are part and parcel of every vaccine since penincillin

Just to clarify, penicillin is an antibiotic. But the point remains, even a proven-beyond-doubt life-saving drug like penicillin can cause potentially life-threatening adverse reactions in certain individuals.

Which is why it is essential to continue reporting these, investigate and learn more.

What caused the most harm during the covid days, was the absolute sense of panic around both the disease and the possible remedies, including vaccines. That caused a needless sense of urgency and everything was rushed. And greedy people profited. Whether it was hoarding during lock downs, setting up "jumbo covid centers", rushed vaccine trials that may have overlooked something and are causing issues now.

What should have been a medical issue was dealt with like a law and order one. And the rational voices of doctors and scientists that should have been amplified by the media were instead drowned by politicians, cops, and any manner of unscientific measures.

[ritedhawan]

Me and my wife contracted Covid one after the other. We took 2 shots with a specific interval between them , and later took the bonus shot as well.

Since, the first shot , once I resumed cardio and gyming , I always felt breathlessness, and later to the point of getting a blackout. I have been into cardio and gyming since 2008 and yet never faced this issue until I took the first shot. Now, I just take it in the stride as this is an insurmountable obstacle.