[vivek95]

Originally Posted by rm_arjuna

one of my team member , recovered fully and reported to work after negative report , however within a week of joining he has tested positive again . Just not able to understand the current situation.

As my colleague Dr Saravanan said, no need to repeat test after recovery from symptoms/illness. RTPCR may come positive upto 90 days. But what is important for us is whether it is a "replication-competent" virus. Only way to determine this is by culture and other higher methods. However that is not feasible. That's why none of the standard organisations like CDC USA recommend repeat testing during convalescence or recovery.

On the other side, you might be surprised to know some very big organisations ask for an RTPCR report even if their employee is positive on Rapid antigen method This is what is happening around, wastage of resources and media won't tell you all this. We face it in reality though. These non-medicos will tell us the medical community what test to do

[saurabh2711]

Originally Posted by xway

Something is terribly fishy -

Nothing fishy - it is result of gross negligence at mass level. Go back a few month and recall the people around us. No Mask, no distancing, as if there was no covid. We were treated as fools if we wore a mask at public places, tried to push/ask someone to follow social distancing.

Furthermore there was a large thread on social media of a particular group - which said : COVID is a hoax & actually doesn't exists.
We followed all protocols last year same time. Just a bit of negligence, after the initial wave settled down & result is the 3 times spike in the number.
We never learned from history - I recall "1920 Spanish Flue" was largely Circulated on Social Media & clearly defined that its second wave was more deadly than first one. We could have been extra cautious.

Now to the system's failure -
My Entire Family, Dad, Mom, Sister, Brother, Sister in Law are all positive. With Brother & Dad in Hospital at Indore due to breathing issues since last 5 days. Dad mom tested positive immediately next day after second Jab. Touchwood, both doing good till now.

I can vouch for the services they are receiving in terms of Covid essentials on regular basis. For that matter, both of them receive messages regarding arrival of there Remidisiver dose as it lands on Airport & reaches hospital. Our System is trying its best to help us, but it is not one man's job in the country like us. Everyone is equally responsible for failure & fight Back.
It is just like having 100+ guests when you prepared only for 10-15. (just an example).

We have to work together & help the system fight back.

EDIT: A Quick POSITIVE Update - An oxygen plant in Pithampur(MP) which was not operational for 3 years is made functional in record 4 days, in-stead of 90 days as quoted earlier. Applying 150 manpower working day & night. Capable of producing 40 Tons (3000 Cylinders) from today. Now the company will work on increasing the capacity for remaining days.

[AZT]

Update on 18 - 44 vaccinations

Some states are unable to source enough supplies from SII / Bharat biotech so they may continue prioritizing 45 and above for their limited stock. May 1 start seems unlikely looking at the people rushing. Also it seems crowding at vaccine centres for people attempting walkin is another concern, atleast in Mumbai.

Nanavati hospital here gave appointment to 700 people yesterday even though they had just 500 doses, I'm guessing hospitals factor in a bunch of people not turning up and allocate more slots than they have, it's heartening to see pretty much everyone turning up but also sad that those seniors had to go back home after waiting for hours.

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...e-may-7290531/

https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumba...aries-23170371

[pavanmadhini]

Originally Posted by vivek95

Sir, I am a Doctor myself and very much believe in knowledge and action. Have earned my MBBS and PG degrees through merit in entrance exams and not any donation ( General category student). That's totally God's grace and parents blessings. I have a strong spiritual inclination as much as I have an affinity towards scientific knowledge. God can never be taken out of any equation, that's my personal faith. Prayers do work

While I appreciate the hard work I'm sure you're putting in now, it makes me sad that we are not able to apply the same scientific temper to our faiths, superstitions and beliefs. If prayers worked, people should do nothing but pray.

Regarding the off-topic general category side note - merit is very tyrannical. There is a baggage of hundreds of years in our country, so let's not indirectly allege that non general category students are not meritorious or less deserving.

In the end, to each his own. Stay safe. Peace.

[scooby05]

Originally Posted by pavanmadhini

With all due respect, perhaps if we'd believed in knowledge and action rather than our gods and prayers, we'd be in much better shape now.

I feel Knowledge and Actions are obviously the first things, they are the good Karma's, cant blame bad karmas, then comes the Positivity in mind and body required which come from Meditation, this is where Gods and Prayers come in.

[CarNerd]

I wish the Army had special powers to intervene and take over administration in times like these. I mean I don't want military coup like our neighbours but I wish there was some force with some sense who could get a grasp of the situation.

I know that there is a provision of Emergency in the constitution and if people aren't getting enough beds or oxygen, isn't this an Emergency? Can't someone act like we're in an Emergency without penalizing those who are reporting the bad situation?

Some reports say that a 3rd wave is possible in November or December but is anyone bothered? How about this proverb:

"Govt fools you once, shame on Govt. Govt fools you twice, shame on Us. Govt fools you thrice, shame on both of Us."

Let's not get fooled the third time..

[swissknife]

I need some help with information on this query from a friend. The person has had their first dose of vaccination (covishield) on 30th Mar. The person has been having slightly elevated temperature which is managed with paracetamol.
To ascertain if the person is positive for covid, a lab was reached out to to take samples. The lab has said that they don't take samples for those who are vaccinated for just around a month and that the result may not be accurate.
Can this statement by the lab be clarified, please?

[Sree]

Originally Posted by swissknife

Can this statement by the lab be clarified, please?

Vaccination gives rise to antibodies. (Produced by the human host)
Tests for Covid detect antigen or nuclear material of the virus.


So no. Vaccination doesn’t produce false positive tests.

[shreevishnu]

This is a rant, but bear with me for a moment.

The situation in India has always been, we are like this only, please adjust. I challenge you to find one government institution/department where there is no corruption. In fact many times, like in the case of city municipal corporations, the social good to be had as benefit of the existence of the authority is overwhelmed by the scale of notoriety in dealing with the government servants who work there. Taxpayer money is used to ensure your average babu is well paid, with an inflation adjustment retirement pension and “staff” when in service (nice govt bungalow, car, driver, gardener, cook/orderly). In addition, transfer raj ensures you turn an adequate return on your “investment”. Corruption is the norm, not being corrupt means you are not part of the system/department. An officer in his mid-40s is a well oiled machine who knows what to do to get ahead. This is distinctly separate from what the tax payer wants/needs.

We all pay a lot in taxes, and get nothing in return in comparison. You pay toll for good roads, road tax is used to ensure that potholes exists to cover up later. Civic amenities in general are always a mixed bag, no power - buy ups/generator, no water - buy sump/bore well/pump, not sewage - put stp, dirty water - buy RO. Instead of asking why we need to do all this when we pay taxes, we listen, adapt, adjust & act appropriately. Most of middle class India spends its life earnings on building that ivory tower within an Apartment project or gated community so that they don’t have to deal with the deficiencies of govt services. You pay GST, income tax, capital gains tax, etc etc but you know you won’t have a favourable outcome were you to be admitted to a govt hospital with no bribes. You go to high priced private hospitals because you know they are way too expensive for what they offer normally, but the alternative is way worse.

Now coming to the current COVID situation, you have developed a sense of invincibility after you dodged the 1st wave. Being your average middle class guy, you’ve thought you’ve build enough around you to not get the virus. I wear a mask (maybe not properly), I don’t go to markets but social gatherings are fine (everybody there is in my “status” - they are like me, careful enough). Collective delusion that we’ve done enough has brought us to this situation where lots of folk are unwell, and the earlier response during normal times of rush to hospital - spend money - become ok is not available as easily. We must remember that getting a bypass is a reasonably common middle class pastime nowadays.

Now that I don’t get a bed despite all the jugaad on earth has meant I can hold the system accountable for failure. The true fact is that we are largely absent citizens, don’t push for accountability everyday and can’t get it when we need it. Our solutions have always been stop gap. In the early 90s, middle class India wanted sites - most cities bursted at the seams with developers making layouts. Lots of fly by night operators cheated lots of people, govt. and politicians were in cahoots with them. They told you, we can get a deal to fix your issues, pay me so much. Most people have paid this or lost their lands. Now we thought we should buy only from “reputed” builders, then Jaypee, Amrapali happened. Govt bailed them out now, IBC. You are still paying your emis for the house you were promised and paid for. These folk became and many stayed billionaires, not all are bad, but surely it isn’t all perfect.

The day we seek accountability on how our money is spent instead of being absentee citizens is the day somethings will change. The pandemic management is a symptom, the problem is deep rooted. Private hospital won’t give beds to govt and to you, then why be in business? Govt employees and politicians will say everything is fine, but it clearly isn’t. Crisis brings uncertainty, that’s good for business apparently if you’re a bad actor with political connections. But alas, public memory is short - we will remember our caste and vote accordingly next time again, as always.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Somehow, I am losing faith in this vaccine thing. A few months ago vaccines were supposed to make us immune, promote herd immunity and perhaps stop this pandemic in time. But now with the vaccinated getting infected - even dying, people catching the disease a second time - sometimes in a couple of months, I am slowly losing hope.

I am not an anti vaxxer and plan on taking the vaccine in a few weeks when things settle down. I would prefer Novavax though. Coming to your point, we might never know. Now the goal post has been shifted. Earlier it was claimed that the vaccines would prevent infection. Now it has been changed to the claim that they would lessen the severity. Since 80% or more have no symptoms and up to 95% don’t have severe symptoms, how would we know if the mild symptoms are due to the vaccines or just from the normal way the virus behaves? Then we have the question of efficacy percentage. It is officially around 70%. So around 1/3rd are officially going to miss the benefits. So anyone having severe complications can be said to fall in this category. In real life the efficacy is likely to be even lower. I don’t blame the manufacturers as they have worked in an unreasonably short timeframe to develop it. I suppose it is like the seat belts and airbags. Having them doesn’t guarantee no fatalities or injuries but we use them to improve our chances. So even a 50% improvement after vaccine is better than nothing.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Since 80% or more have no symptoms and up to 95% don’t have severe symptoms, how would we know if the mild symptoms are due to the vaccines or just from the normal way the virus behaves? Then we have the question of efficacy percentage.

This is why RCTs have a control group. To figure out if it's because of the vaccine or is it because of the normal way the virus behaves.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by carboy

This is why RCTs have a control group. To figure out if it's because of the vaccine or is it because of the normal way the virus behaves.

That is for studies. I was talking about real world efficacy.

[srishiva]

Sometimes calculating numbers based on real data and then extrapolating it based on some assumptions can give astonishing figures.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/27/i...dst/index.html

This suggests the number of infections could be 529 million already ! Its the fatalities thats really sad

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by drrajasaravanan

Hi,
No need to do any swabs or test after recovery. Your nasal tissues will carry virus remnants which will give positive results up to 3 months.
That is not true. Delaying the 2nd dose for 60 to 90 days gives better efficacy....

Some workplaces have made ridiculous rules of their own. Like RT PCR every 2 weeks. Or negative PCR to rejoin work after recovery. So basically, someone who's fully recovered and non infectious as well, has got his life stuck for upto 3 months till he is declared negative by a lab report. What a waste!
The data on increased efficacy by delaying the 2nd dose was out since Jan. Beats me why our govt didn't adopt it (even now they haven't), considering that a major vaccine shortage was sure to result. No anticipation and no adaptation either. We rule - what we say goes.

Originally Posted by rm_arjuna

one of my team member , recovered fully and reported to work after negative report , however within a week of joining he has tested positive again . Just not able to understand the current situation.

Why did he have to get tested again? Policy? Or symptoms?

Originally Posted by msdivy

IWith lock-down, daily wage earners have to fend for themselves.

Not just daily wage earners, even middle class - professionals, businesses and even specialist doctors especially in surgical branches. No beds = no admissions. Oxygen issues = no general anesthesia.

Originally Posted by nareshov

Sweden is an exception - like India - but in the other direction. They’re quite private as a people and their country’s landmass is quite sparsely populated.

Even the INDSCI-SIM India specific model based on extended SEIR, and a population estimate of 135crores taken into consideration clearly refuted (June 2020) the Indian government's (NITI AAYOG's) prediction (on May 22, 2020 of deaths averted - I have posted the relevant data on this thread way back, maybe in July.
What is basically shows is that lockdowns do not prevent excess deaths, it only slows down the initial peak and delays the time taken for the deaths to occur and the collateral effects even result in an overall excess mortality in a period as short as one year after.

Originally Posted by vivek95

As my colleague Dr Saravanan said, no need to repeat test after recovery from symptoms/illness. RTPCR may come positive upto 90 days.
On the other side, you might be surprised to know some very big organisations ask for an RTPCR report even if their employee is positive on Rapid antigen method This is what is happening around, wastage of resources and media won't tell you all this. We face it in reality though. These non-medicos will tell us the medical community what test to do

This is where the govt recommendations are lacking. When allowing on site office working, there should have been clear cut instructions on who to test, when to test, how often to test, and method of testing. The situation is even more ridiculous in the US - some people I've heard have been swabbed upto 8 times in one month, just because they go to work!

Originally Posted by swissknife

I need some help with information on this query from a friend. The person has had their first dose of vaccination (covishield) on 30th Mar. The person has been having slightly elevated temperature which is managed with paracetamol.
To ascertain if the person is positive for covid, a lab was reached out to to take samples. The lab has said that they don't take samples for those who are vaccinated for just around a month and that the result may not be accurate.
Can this statement by the lab be clarified, please?

Fever at present cannot be attributed as vaccination induced after such a long period. He could have any other viral illness at present. Not every fever is Covid19, but let him isolate add take symptomatic treatment. Rt PCR can be done - result doesn't depend on status of vaccination.

[mvadg]

I am wondering how long this SARS-COV2 pandemic is going to continue. If this virus keeps mutating, and it will, and keeps making more and more effective variants, it is going to affect a huge fraction of the human population quite seriously. Will this continue for a few years, decades or forever?

To the molecular biologists / vaccine experts out there - will we ever get a vaccine effective against all variants? Is such a thing in the works somewhere? Do we know of any synthetic organism that keeps mutating and producing an immune response against deadlier organisms without harmful effects (chicken pox vs small pox type of response)?

What does the future look like?