[poloman]

Originally Posted by AZT

There's a lotta faulty data being spread on Whatsapp talking about reinfection rates post vaccines. I've also seen it posted here and it's time we stopped spreading that.

Indian Government Used Faulty Data To Claim Few Infections Post Covid-19 Vaccination

Let us focus on the positives. Even if it is 0.4% instead of 0.04%, don't you think that vaccines are working? Govt should have given a caveat that this may be an under estimate.

Similar data from USA.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/cdc-...americans.html

U.S. health officials have confirmed fewer than 6,000 cases of Covid-19 in fully vaccinated Americans, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Monday.

That represents just 0.007% of the 84 million Americans with full protection against the virus. Despite the breakthrough infections, she said the vaccines are working as intended.

Although this number is from 43 states and territories and likely an underestimate, it still makes a really important point, these vaccines are working.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by poloman

Let us focus on the positives. Even if it is 0.4% instead of 0.04%, don't you think that vaccines are working? Govt should have given a caveat that this may be an under estimate.

💯 agree, on another thread I’ve posted about this 70 year old relative who’s refusing to get vaccinated and the family is trying to convince him.

Point being using faulty data gives those who are reluctant more ammo to deny taking it saying “Look govt is anyway lying about this, who knows what else they lie about”. Goal is to be transparent and double check all data being published so no one has any doubt about the numbers being used.

That these get spread far and wide before being analysed properly is another problem with social media.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

We have no beds available in ICU, all patients are either intubated or on NIV, very few on HFNC. We don’t even admit patients to ICU unless they need Non invasive ventilation at least. Believe me the system has collapsed. Those who think people are not dying without proper treatment, I can only sympathesize with you.! This government has failed an entire nation, without planning for oxygen, vaccines and what not. Absolutely disgusted at seeing people trying to justify this horrendous crime against the fellow human beings, How on earth can one justify the mass election rallies and religious gatherings while people are dying like worms?

Hi doc. An ICU is a critical area, you being a specialist know that. Mortality rates are bound to be higher in such situations, no matter what the underlying cause. The silver lining (& a huge one at that) is that 95% will not deteriorate to that level. Our population dynamics magnifies this small percentage when translated to actual numbers.
For a system to collapse, there should be a system to begin with! What healthcare system do we have? Everything exists on paper - from primary heath to tertiary care; in reality every hospital and every doctor is on his own out there today. Reminds me of the interpretative reaction to the PM's address to the nation a few days ago - "Guys (states), you're on your own". The govt has miserably failed to forsee, plan and execute almost everything about the pandemic in the last year. But is there a mechanism to bring criminal charges against it? With election rallies and religious events going on side by side with a new surge, India has set new standards of dubious behavior! The US President might well say " Why come crying for help now (vaccines, medicines, raw materials and what not) when your political priorities are to be blamed for your own misery?". Unfortunately the people get (the misery) that the politicians deserve.
Anyway, closer to home, this on Pune, 24 April 2021: In the last 24 hours, a total of 4789 were discharged from hospitals after recovery from Coronavirus disease (COVID19) in Pune city today. 3991 new patients were detected while 55 people died. Today swab samples of 22,227 were collected for COVID tests. Recoveries > New cases.
Lower positivity rates. Lower mortality rate. All within less than 2 months of the surge. Hopefully should reduce rapidly now, going by the recent trends.

[MBond007]

There are lot of contrasting views from fellow members. I guess it all boils down to how our experience has been with the virus.

Till few days back, I used to think that the whole Corona Virus episode has been blown out of proportion and that the media unnecessarily keeps on doing fear mongering. Despite this thought I used to take all requisite precautions. But then things changed. On April 12, I suddenly felt an itching in my throat. Had mild fever next day accompanied by fatigue. I hoped that it would be a normal sore throat. When things did not improve over the next 2 days, I decided to get tested.

The result came on April 15. Virus was detected in my specimen and the CT score of 20. Next morning, I was feeling a bit dizzy, so thought of checking the Spo2 reading. It was around 90. Called up a relative who is a doctor, she recommended to get admitted immediately. All of a sudden I started feeling breathless and restless. Called around 8-10 hospitals in and around Noida. But there was no bed available. Its then I realised how stressed our medical system is and that how miserable one feels to not find a bed for treatment. All materialistic possessions start seeming worthless. Your mind starts playing tricks with you and you start imagining the worst.

Fortunately my Spo2 level increased to 93 after an hour. My relative whom I had consulted ealrlier, prescribed some medicine (ivermectine, Zinc, Vit C, Paracetamol) and told to take steam 3-4 times a day and drink plenty of hot fluid. It worked and the fever was gone within next 3 days. SpO2 has stabilized and is hovering in 95-96 range.

I was lucky to have caught a mild version of the virus. Had it been the other variants, I might not have been around to type this post. In this wave, even young and fit people are succumbing to the virus. People with absolutely no comorbidity or any other disease. The reason I am sharing my experience in this forum is to highlight that the medical infrastructure has indeed collapsed in Delhi NCR. And that the virus is for real and quite fatal this time around. So, please take due precautions and help those in need. The situation is very grim for those who have been impacted by the second wave.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by poloman

Doctor's opinion v/s another doctor's opinion on the same forum. Now it is not surprising that normal folks are dumb stuck and totally confused.

@vivek95's post was about not getting admitted immediately after testing +ve, instead getting treated at OPD. Only in case of serious complications like breathlessness, visit the hospital. @The Rationalist's post is sharing experience from ground zero (ICU), which is all the more reason to avoid hospitals if possible. How is that one opinion vs another?

Originally Posted by Su-47

May I know what is the source of this R0 number for Covid?

(Sorry, had missed this) That R0 was for 1st wave. The current wave is infecting faster. People are testing +ve after being in contact within a day or two, similar to the common cold (unlike 5 days for the previous variant). Hence I am sure R0 will be revised.

Originally Posted by jpcoolguy

The lockdown circus continues, this time Sunday lockdown in TN. I failed to understand the purpose of Sunday lockdown and as usual people have thronged to vegetable markets, fish and meat markets today itself, doesn't it defeat the purpose.

Unless there a bio-bubble, people-people interactions can not be avoided. Lockdowns reduce these interactions but don't avoid them. It is a temporary measure. Having a short lockdown doesn't reduce the interaction significantly. Having longer lockdown will affect daily-wage earners & businesses badly.

Originally Posted by motorworks

Unfortunately I have tested positive for COVID, this is my 2nd time in less than 50 days. I think there is no guarantee that there is immunity for 5-6 months.

The immunity is for the previous variant. Hopefully, the symptoms will less severe this time.

Originally Posted by Zen2001

Most viral infections actually have no specific treatment, rather they don't NEED specific treatment. Same case here. That's why over 80% recover at home without doing anything specific. What is being treated actively are just complications - and there are specific treatments for specific complications. And as is the usual scenario, any complication (of any infection) with a comorbid disease generally tends to have worse outcomes than the same complication in a person without comorbidities.

My post was on doctors prescribing Ramdesvir when they know its shortage. Hospitals have delegated sourcing the drugs to patients' relatives. This is adding a sensational twist to the medical treatment plot.

Originally Posted by Abdeali

Then why don't we have a flush of doctors advising us on how to keep our immune system at the best level? Why no research in this matter? Simple things such as natural Vitamin C, D and a little amount of Zinc could and would save lives!

Immunity can not be built overnight. There is no medicine. It is leading a healthy lifestyle - eating nutritious food with maintaining regular fitness. This will help in recovering faster. Avoid synthetic supplements unless there is a deficiency.

Originally Posted by Miyata

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/w...rking-out.html

Isn't it rewording the phrase 'healthy lifestyle'?

Originally Posted by NPV

Praying and hoping for the best in the coming days and hopefully, this too shall pass.

If the epidemic follows the same trajectory as the 1st wave, then we will have a peak in mid-May and taper off. So in about 3 months, people would have forgotten beds, oxygen, etc.

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

How on earth can one justify the mass election rallies and religious gatherings while people are dying like worms?

My observation as a layman is the spread is primarily via group events, where people spend around 20 minutes together in an indoor setup without masks. My suggestion is to avoid indoor family events, social functions, classroom settings till the epidemic tapers off. The most severely affected & resulting in deaths (even among young folks) are those prone to lung infection. If there is a family history related to this, then there are more chances of being badly affected.

Originally Posted by MBond007

Till few days back, I used to think that the whole Corona Virus episode has been blown out of proportion and that the media unnecessarily keeps on doing fear mongering.

The media, instead of reporting yesterday's (bad) news, are more into predicting what bad will happen in the future. Hence advice is to avoid.

Originally Posted by Zen2001

For a system to collapse, there should be a system to begin with! What healthcare system do we have? Everything exists on paper - from primary heath to tertiary care; in reality every hospital and every doctor is on his own out there today.

Even if we say 5% population requires hospitalization, that is a huge number even for countries where the per capita doctor count is high. It is beyond the capacity in a poor healthcare country like us. That is why we are seeing shortages & deaths. The saving grace for our country is the high numbers of young population.
Where the Government has failed is not being cautious, seeing vaccine as the cure, celebrating victory before the finish line & failing to ramp up medical facilities. The central government gave up the responsibility in the mid-last year itself. Now the state governments are giving up responsibility.

The goal must have been not to strain the healthcare infrastructure (which we have been posting since the beginning of this thread). So wear a good mask correctly (prevent air transmission) and use sanitizer/wash hands (prevent surface transmission, however small it may be).

[NiInJa]

I, my wife and my mom have tested covid +ve. I have a lot to share but will do later once we recover. This virus is well documented by now, but the situation it puts you and your family members is something many dont know till it knocks on your door. So I request people to take this situation seriously.

In my mom's and wife's case the Ct value is 16 and 17 and mine is 26. My mom and wife got mild fever for a day with runny nose and they were fine for the next two days (though we started isolation on the first day of symptoms itself, with vaporizer and hot water drinking) Then, two days later they start having fever above 100.8, since Thursday night. SpO2 levels are 96,97 for all. Both are having fever and my wife has to take 650mg paracetamol every 6 hours. Hoping things will improve in the next couple of days. I am not feeling feverish now after 10.5 hours of taking paracetamol, which seems like a good sign.

One major worry for me right now is that I have a 3 year old kid, his rtpcr test came negative and we have been checking his temperature which is normal. But ever since this pandemic started, he has got attached a lot to me and his mom, and he refuses to stay away from the both of us, tried engaging him in games and some activity but he wants our involvement, and to make matters worse, he is constipated so everytime his butt hurts, he jumps over me or his mom crying out loud. So isolating him is just not possible, plus we have to wear masks around him which is a problem as breathing fresh air is what doctor told us. Then, we are getting very little time to take rest as he is bringing the house down with his energy when his bowels are emptied (again, by force). Last night, unable to cope up with his energy, I slept right in the middle of the kitchen, like a drunk guy in the lanes connecting Anjuna-Baga of Goa, while he carried on. I cant send him to my parent's house, as my mom is covid positive. My Aunt and Uncle just recovered from covid, but she is too weak too do anything other than taking rest, plus my kid wont stay with them as this lockdown has made him too close to us. Then, there are food issues, which is a different story for another day. All in all last two weeks have been bad, first my Aunt had to be admitted when there were no beds with O2 supply available. It was by God's grace that se got one bed and recovered. The only silver lining is that my Dad is not covid positive, and my uncle despite being diabetic, above 65 and the first one to get covid recovered exceptionally fast with no complications, why? Because he had been vaccinated two weeks before his first symptoms showed.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by msdivy

So in about 3 months, people would have forgotten beds, oxygen, etc.

Yes, that's the usual tragic and stupid human behaviour

[drrajasaravanan]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

I
One major worry for me right now is that I have a 3 year old kid, his rtpcr test came negative and we have been checking his temperature which is normal. .

Hi,
With respect to your kid who is RTPCR negative. The evidence till now shows the impact of COVID in kids and teenage children is far less compared to adults especially in asian countries. Even if your child develops fever or any other symptoms the standard care should suffice and they bounce back to.baseline very fast. I can imagine the stress you are under and please don't procrastinate about your child who may not acquire the infection and even if he does will recover faster than any one else in your family. Stay positive.

[Bhalla]

Iain Rankin (Premier of Nova Scotia) on Instagram today

[driven646]

I still see some anti vaxxers here, I implore everyone to get vaccinated when eligible immediately.

There is ample macro data implying how effective vaccines are in preventing severe Covid symptoms, but.we still have people believing unverified anecdotal data.

Since we love anecdotes, I'll share three recent personal ones to show how vaccines saved.

1) My Cousin's wife gets infected when she meets her Delhi returned brother, within two days everyone in the house - my cousin, their 4 yr old daughter and two staff members have Covid symptoms and test positive - my cousin's father, 66 years old, generally healthy and vaccinated with both doses gets no symptoms at all and comfortably isolates himself to another house. It's been 2 weeks, he's absolutely fine and my cousins family too are recovering well.

2) My Cousin's brother in law, gets high fever with Covid, faints and is delirious - his Mother stays in his room.for 2 nights putting cold bandages and generally caring for him - she only gets very mild symptoms herself as she's been vaccinated with a single jab. They are all fine now and well on their way to recovery as it's been 2 weeks. Again both his parents had taken their first Jab and both got zero to very mild symptoms even as they isolated in the same house as their infected son.

3) A friend's 93 year old Grandmother is tested positive with mild symptoms, she had received her first jab 3 weeks prior. She stays at home, everyone fears for the worst - within 5 days, her mild symptoms disappear and she's fully recovered. Despite being 93, the lady was fairly active, prior to the pandemic, strolling in the markets, playing cards and was fine health-wise for her age.

So here are three, up close anecdotes of Vaccines potentially saving lives and severe CoVid. Since, we're in Himachal, only Covishield is being administered here.

Please Vaccinate when eligible, and ensure all elderly relative's, friends have already done so.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

SpO2 of 85 could be normal for a COPD patient, 90 for a smoker or just with advancing age.

I think the smoker thing is only if O2 sats are measured using a blood test. If you use a pulse oximeter to measure O2 sat, then that of a smoker & non-smoker will be the same because a pulse oximeter cannot distinguish between Carbon Monoxide binding with Hemoglobin & Oxygen binding with Hemoglobin.

I am adding this just so that smokers getting 85 with a pulse oximeter don't think it's a normal reading.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by AZT

There's a lotta faulty data being spread on Whatsapp talking about reinfection rates post vaccines. I've also seen it posted here and it's time we stopped spreading that.

Indian Government Used Faulty Data To Claim Few Infections Post Covid-19 Vaccination

There may be a flaw in interpreting data - agreed the Govt should do better. But the central message that vaccinations seem to reduce reinfections is still worth spreading in these gloomy times.

An very coarse calculation based on data in https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Cumulative #of people receiving vaccinations till April 7th- 75940000
Cumulative #of people receiving vaccinations till April 24th - 116940000
#of people receiving vaccinations post April6th - 41000000

#of people reinfected based @0.04% (of total vaccinations) - 46776

%of people reinfected based only #of people vaccinated post Apr 6th - 0.11%
To me this is an extremely encouraging number.

Originally Posted by poloman

Let us focus on the positives. Even if it is 0.4% instead of 0.04%, don't you think that vaccines are working? Govt should have given a caveat that this may be an under estimate.

Absolutely, and this info should be used to encourage more people to get vaccinated.

[neeraj0272]

Originally Posted by poloman

Increasing cases of doctors and hospital authorities crying on news media. Is this helping the fight in any way? Will this not create more panic and chaos? Why give out messages like 'oxygen available for half an hour' in media?

Anyone familiar with the way politicians and bureaucracy works in any country let alone a country like ours where these mightynpeoplenare indifferent to common man's suffering and also where corruption is sky-high, do you think they would have gotten oxygen following normal 'protocals'?
Indeed these hospitals' and Delhi govt's cry-baby actions have resulted in some action and some oxygen reaching Delhi.
Do you want people to suffer silently so that those around them can sleep peacefully?
Sorry but this does not happen this way. Those who are suffering will cry.

[Fillmore]

Originally Posted by Ithaca

Seeking advise regarding masks.

Suddenly I am seeing lot of posts on social media by "doctors" & "experts" asking us to stop using cloth masks and move to N95 or triple layered masks since the experts concur that the current strain in India is now airborne and not like the original strain.
Kindly advise if this is a marketing gimmick or should one treat this news seriously.
Thanks in advance.

Was going through this thread after sometime, so apologies for replying to an old post.

But one way to see how good or bad your mask is , is by this simple experiment.
Light a candle and hold it right in front of your face.
Put on your mask and blow hard on the candle with the mask on.

If the candle flame goes out , that means the mask is not very effective.

Ps: Just a simple test to ensure among fabric makes you do have a good double layered one. Not getting into the finer details of the mask weave vs how many microns is the virus etc..

[jpcoolguy]

A useful tweet from TN SDMA regarding the availability of beds in TN.

https://stopcorona.tn.gov.in/beds.php