[am1m]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I really don't think that you are one of those weird-conspiracy guys who thinks that entities such as "the government[s]" and "the media" have made it all up.

Obviously there's no overreaching conspiracy to make things up. Just the human tendency to overstate the bad news and under report the good. Plus bad news always sells as opposed to 'hey we don't know enough yet, they're still researching, will take time'.

Just go back to the pages of this thread and see how different things have caused alarm at different times and how the number of alarmist posts outweigh the more balanced ones. Check the sources, you'll see that it's mostly the doctors who see patients on a regular basis who have been bringing the more balanced views and the laymen, armchair medical experts (me included!) who tend to google any bit of news or developing research that 'could be a potential, maybe, "hey it-could-happen under xyz conditions" and "see it did happen in 0.x% of cases in this or that part of this or that county-country" cause for concern'. Then see what is actually happening around us. I really think this thread is in an different country from what I see going on around me. I'm not saying Covid isn't serious, but the crowds and behaviors I see everyday now are really on a different plane than the kinds of minutae and concerns we seem to be discussing and dissecting on this thread.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by am1m

Just go back to the pages of this thread and see how different things have caused alarm at different times and how the number of alarmist posts outweigh the more balanced ones. ...

Yes, I agree. And I admit to probably being one of the more alarmist posters. I have been very alarmed, and I still am more than a bit concerned.

A lot depends on what, and where we are looking. When this thing was just revving up, a friend in London seemed to think I'd be well-advised to rush to London! Actually, her local corner of London, at that time, had more cases than Chennai, if not the whole of Tamil Nadu! Then TN suddenly rushed to a top place in the India-covid league. Now, I can see why the situation here could make a person think "Covid? What covid?" (I guess I'm on amber alert these days: masking, avoiding crowds, but not avoiding the whole world outside). Across the border, a friend in Thrissur is shocked that the coming festival will go ahead when their situation is much worse. Further afield: UK, USA... it's all been said in recent posts.

[srishiva]

Condition in lot of countries, mostly developed is still alarming. So, why couldn't we be alarmists in this country ? There is always some extra from media. But then we are fortunate that its not bad here.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Well, the other illnesses are really not a valid marker as they are not as infectious. A lot of people died in countries like Spain, Italy, France, UK, US etc and their healthcare system had completely collapsed. This virus was spreading fast and no definitive cure was known at that time. People were dying on roads for lack of medical care. I don't know why that is not a factor in discussing what steps we had to take. We do not have any robust healthcare system to take care of millions of cases if that had become a reality. For government and authorities prevention was the priority. If we had millions of poor people who were infected and who needed hospitalization, just imagine what would have happened. How many would have found a bed in a hospital ?

Thankfully this virus has largely turned out to be harmless for most people but there are really deadly viruses out there, like Ebola. I think any administration will have to be conservative while dealing with any viral outbreak. Things can go south very fast and then you only would be crying hoarse why government didn't take appropriate measures to prevent deaths.

Wholeheartedly have to disagree purely from a medical standpoint. If you want infectious causes of death other than Covid, look no further than TB in India. 4.4 lakh deaths per year as per the govt statistics. This is after being under reported by a huge extent. A lot of people in those countries you mentioned who died (WITH Covid & not necessarily DUE TO Covid) were 75+ and with severe co morbidities, even terminal cancer and their life expectancy was never more than 6 months anyway.

Do you have figures for how many people who die on the roads for lack of care from other infectious diseases all over the world? Prevention is the key I agree, but there is also a wise truth in medicine - don't make the cure/prevention worse than the disease itself!

And ironically, India has been "saved" by those very poor who rightly according to you didn't have access to 5 star medical treatment, but they developed their own immunity which is evident by the results of so many sero surveys. These are the very people who have prevented the virus from running amok the more susceptible populations by developing asymptomatic to mild infections and reasonable short term immunity as a result.

If you talk to knowledgeable community medicine specialists, they have deduced that most probably 70 crores - that's 700 million Indians have already anyway been infected. So yes, hundreds of millions actually got infected (& not just your fear of what if that were to have happened!) but we all know how many are actually so serious as to require a hospital and eventually even die as a result.

And that figure is called the infection fatality rate, which has been worked out at lesser than 0.2% rather than the WRONG perception given by the Govt by publicizing the case fatality rate, which is around 1% (5 times the IFR). Not really very different from any viral influenza that gets complicated by pneumonitis, sepsis, ARDS & MODS!

To top it all, most of these factors (in smaller numbers at that time) were already known in May itself! Locking up 1.4 billion people, when less than 15% were vulnerable (above 65 years of age), was not just a gross mistake, but a highly costly one in terms of paralyzing the non susceptible immunocompetent and work efficient 50% of our population.

That the virus has " turned out to be harmless" is what you say now - but these statistics have proven that long ago. 70% of our population is rural - yet, how many came from villages to seek ICU care for Covid in big city hospitals, the way they do for other diseases?

You say that any viral outbreak can go south very fast for which the govt could be blamed - find out what the govt did for SARS, swine flu and bird flu in terms of scare mongering and imposing unrealistic restrictions which have eventually not made any positive impact (other than buying time to prepare heath infrastructure) in the long run.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

In the end, it was diagnosed as TB, eventually getting her the appropriate treatment. We didn't catch it. None of the people she worked with caught it. What if it had been a few months later and it had been covid?.

You (& the rest of his contacts) probably might have already been infected (all of us in India are INFECTED with TB, but not not all are DISEASED - something that is almost happening even with Covid 19) - but none of you know - yet. Hopefully, it stays that way. TB may take a latent period of years before manifesting itself. Still, this doesn't take away from the hard fact that it kills many many more than this or any other virus. No argument there, really - based on statistics over the last 20 years.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I don't doubt that there has been all kinds of dodgy business going on. But The Government? You must have noticed what other countries, other governments have been doing too? You must be aware of the situation in UK. You must know about USA?

The population dynamics of India is completely different as compared to the countries you quote. What follows as common sense logic is that the same measures cannot be copy pasted everywhere. Look at the statistics from African countries, or if you want a closer look - there's Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan. Your study of comparisons is invalid (like the many studies on Covid done by researchers) due to this inherent "selection bias" - in your case, the selected populations.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I really don't think that you are one of those weird-conspiracy guys who thinks that entities such as "the government[s]" and "the media" have made it all up. It is not beyond belief that some governments must have seen a silver lining to covid, getting some people off their streets, but fearmongering implies an intent beyond perhaps having simply got it wrong

Of course, this is a reality and not a conspiracy theory - none of my posts on this thread even allude to a lab-made or man-made conspiracy. However, what the govt and media have DEFINITELY done is that they have made a mountain out of this mole-hill. And therein lie the questionable intents - because nothing works better in the minds of innocent people than the fear of death.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Look at the guy who admits to have purposely underplayed the dangers, and look at the American result. His mistake was that he didn't fearmonger.

Again, I'm talking only about India so this comparison becomes an apple Vs orange (literally & otherwise) one. Different sets of susceptible populations, different geographical/climatic factors, different immune characteristics due to previous viral exposures - these are just too many confounding variables that throw your suggestion of "perhaps doing the same would have worked" right out of the scientific window. Cheers!

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Spain Limits AstraZeneca Covid Vaccine To People Under 55.
Now almost none of the European countries are administering Covishield to their senior citizens who are the most vulnerable.

Ironic really, isn't it? All boils down to 2 issues - safety & efficacy. Every drug (no matter how dangerous) needs to have a justifiable benefit to risk ratio. And all these rushed, fast tracked, half baked vaccine trials have only fallen short of proving the same. Reminiscent of the similar fate (fall from grace) of Remdesivir not long ago.

Originally Posted by srishiva

Condition in lot of countries, mostly developed is still alarming. So, why couldn't we be alarmists in this country ? There is always some extra from media. But then we are fortunate that its not bad here.

Simply because you can't copy the way a disease behaves in one country and paste it onto a completely different one! Haven't you heard that the same medicine given for the same condition doesnt always work in the same way for different people? Besides, even if this copy paste business were to be 100% replicable in India as the situation in developed countries would being alarmist and unscientific about it actually help? Incidentally, a senior doctor sent me this today.

[am1m]

A good one, from a credible source:

https://indianexpress.com/audio/the-...mbers/7177759/

"Dr Gagandeep Kang on the mystery of India’s declining COVID numbers" (Audio)

Covers a lot of things that the recent posts have been about.

[motorworks]

So finally its that time when something you have been reading or hearing about for the last 1 year, makes an impact at home! Have tested positive for COVID earlier today and still coming to terms with all the things associated with it. First up, I have no travel history, but I have been going to office every day since June 2020. In my line of work, working from home is just not an option. I have always assumed Im prone to COVID due to my exposure at office, and have been taking the basic precautions, yet couldnt prevent this.

Since last Friday I have been having sore throat, so visited a Tata health clinic near my apartment and the doctor there just gave me some basic meds, but surely he cautioned me about COVID. Anyway, the sore throat led to a cold, but thats about it. No fever, or no body pain. Hence I did not really think testing was necessary. The tipping point was when a colleague at office tested positive earlier this Wednesday, so I stayed back at home on Thursday and opted for the RT PCR test. Somehow in my mind I did not think I had COVID, however this morning my result came positive. Staying in a apartment with my wife and 8 year old son, the trouble was to manage things post the result. How do I isolate? Have I already passed this on to my wife and kid? What medicines to take? So many questions.

First thing, I informed my society office, and they immediately put one of those warning tapes in front of my apartment. I stay in the ground floor, so imagine all the folks in my apartment block having to pass by this every time!

Second, I called for testing for my wife and son, there was no way to judge whether it was too soon to test them or too late. I have been having a cold for nearly a week now. So chances are that I have already passed it on to them. And my wife was already having some mild symptoms, so got the testing done, results due tomorrow.

Third, I approached few hospitals around, no one is seeing COVID patients in-person, so did a video call, explained the doctor every thing that I knew of. Was surprised when the doctor prescribed fabiflu or what is known as faviparivir. Im due to take 18 tables of 200mg dosage each on day one and then it becomes 8 tablets a day for the next 6 days. Even though I bought these tablets, im really not sure if I need to take these. Most people I know who were infected with COVID were administered just calpol and dolo 650. So why this fabiflu? Just not sure. Looking at the cost of the tablet, which costed me nearly 4K, it somehow looked like it was just pushed to me for the sake revenue for the hospital, plus the way the hospital was trying to market some so called home packages for COVID, which just included just some video calls and some basic kit etc, made me assume if Im being treated as just a revenue stream for the hospital.

Anyway, my real issue is what the result is going to turn out for my wife and son. If they are negative, at least I can stay away. Makes things a little easier. But if wife also tests positive then it makes managing my son all the more difficult. And we have to be self isolated within our apartment for 14 days, we have done that in March, April 2020, so thats not so much of an issue.

Lets hope for the best!

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Anyway, my real issue is what the result is going to turn out for my wife and son. If they are negative, at least I can stay away. Makes things a little easier. But if wife also tests positive then it makes managing my son all the more difficult. And we have to be self isolated within our apartment for 14 days, we have done that in March, April 2020, so thats not so much of an issue.

Let us hope for the best. Wishing you a speedy recovery soon.

Regarding you apprehension, I can very well understand it due to a recent instance of one of my friend (and a BHPian) who contacted to COVID. Apart from him, his Dad, Mum and Wife too were tested positive. It seems that they caught up with this while they attended a bereavement of one of their family members and drove to that destination.

In all this, their son, 8 years was negative and to take care of him, the mother isolated with him at home while my friend and his parents were admitted.

All of them recovered with a week's hospitalization (Including his wife) and doing good and it was such a sigh of relief. Recent travel is what they all suspect to be the reason but are unable to ascertain when and where. In fact, his father had slight difficulty in breathing too. It all started when my friend couldn't smell shampoo, soap or toothpaste one of the mornings that alarmed him and he got everyone tested the very day.

Again, please take care and do not worry. We hope and pray that their results come negative and you recover soon too.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Let us hope for the best. Wishing you a speedy recovery soon.

Regarding you apprehension, I can very well understand it due to a recent instance of one of my friend (and a BHPian) who contacted to COVID. Apart from him, his Dad, Mum and Wife too were tested positive. It seems that they caught up with this while they attended a bereavement of one of their family members and drove to that destination.

In all this, their son, 8 years was negative and to take care of him, the mother isolated with him at home while my friend and his parents were admitted.

Again, please take care and do not worry. We hope and pray that their results come negative and you recover soon too.

Thanks for your well wishes. Both my parents and in-laws dont stay in Bangalore, so the three of us have to sail thru this together.

I have gone ahead and taken the 1st dose of fabiflu tablets, dont ever recall taking 9 tablets at one go. Read a few reports of certain side effects for this medicine, but it seems widely prescribed now, so Im hoping my body takes it well.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by motorworks

I have gone ahead and taken the 1st dose of fabiflu tablets, dont ever recall taking 9 tablets at one go. Read a few reports of certain side effects for this medicine, but it seems widely prescribed now, so Im hoping my body takes it well.

Hope you feel better soon. What exactly is in these medicines? The COVID positive cases that I know of have all been advised to stay home, rest and only if necessary, take some paracetamol. I share your skepticism about this being just a revenue stream for doctors and pharmacists.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Hope you feel better soon. What exactly is in these medicines? The COVID positive cases that I know of have all been advised to stay home, rest and only if necessary, take some paracetamol. I share your skepticism about this being just a revenue stream for doctors and pharmacists.

Fabiflu is a brand by Glenmark, the generic name is favipiravir, which is an antiviral drug. Apparently most pharma companies have their own versions. This seems to be a widely prescribed antiviral drug for mild cases of COVID. Obviously there are side effects, I read about it, didnt seem like there were any major concerns; so went ahead with it. Its a 7 day course, hope to get out of this soon.

[RedTerrano]

Now that the numbers are rising, Govt of MH is mulling yet another lockdown.
I simply don't get the logic. Lockdowns made sense when there was no vaccine. But now that the vaccines are available, why the lockdown?



[Source]

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

However, what the govt and media have DEFINITELY done is that they have made a mountain out of this mole-hill. And therein lie the questionable intents - because nothing works better in the minds of innocent people than the fear of death.

Well that's easy for you to say. With no skin in the game, you are free to say whatever you want. It's not as if your political career or legacy hinges upon your decision to not impose lockdowns on the nation. Skin in the game makes all the difference my friend.

It's easy for you to say that the virus is overblown, but ask the families of those who're getting severely impacted by the damned virus. My daughter had a life-threatening impact due to MIS-C. Another member's 30 year old brother had MIS-A and he needed dialysis. 1 or 2% of the population is all that severely gets impacted by the virus - this I know too. But without the lockdowns, what if the 2% needed medical care all at once. Would people have died on unattended on hospital corridors, while their families wailed outside shut ICU doors? A version of this actually happened in Italy, where they had a very cavalier attitude toward the virus in early 2020. There just weren't enough doctors, beds, equipment or medicines.

I am sorry, but lockdowns gave my kid a chance at staving off the condition which she ultimately developed. The lockdowns gave enough time for the medical infrastructure to receive patients in tranches, instead of having them all at once (probably). I starkly remember my doctor saying that without lockdowns, everyone's getting it now; it was well under control until lockdowns were in place. The lockdowns were lifted for economic reasons and for the good of the majority of the population, but that's how it is. That's all I know and care about.

PS: You should ignore the sharp edge in my retort to you. I am well aware of it, but I couldn't help speaking my mind either. I bear no ill-will towards you.

[praveen789]

Originally Posted by motorworks

The tipping point was when a colleague at office tested positive earlier this Wednesday, so I stayed back at home on Thursday and opted for the RT PCR test.

It may sound counter intuitive but getting the test done was not necessary considering you didnt have any major symptoms. Simple self isolation to avoid spreading (even if it was COVID) was better. This is what is happening in most cases - docs do not even bother to see how severe it is before pumping you with a dozen tablets at a time. This is totally not required as those will have side effects for sure whereas your body was ably fighting Covid without any external inputs.

I have witnessed some disgusting practices by doctors/hospitals where they force you to get admitted and put you on saline/drips and a million medicines though you have no/minimal symptoms (all because you had medical insurance and are juicy bait). I still stand by my earlier view that this has become a business model now and I myself would think a dozen times before getting tested for sneezing 2 times.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

Lockdowns made sense when there was no vaccine. But now that the vaccines are available, why the lockdown?

What vaccines? What availability? Can you simply walk into some clinic or centre and get vaccinated? It may be that you belong to some priority group and can, but that is a small percentage of people.

I belong to some priority group, being nearly seventy years of age, but it is not the top priority, and even though there is talk of over-fifties starting in march, it remains talk until there is a needle in my arm --- and I have absolutely no idea when that will be.

And even then, the body's reaction takes some time, not to mention the need of a second dose.

It's the numbers now that are important in these decisions, not the maybe availability of vaccine which will take time to protect people.

Coronavirus is not a short story. It's been a year now. Hopefully vaccination puts an end in site.